A new 9 in the house, could use some recommendations


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Sin City Shootist
February 11, 2011, 02:03 AM
My wife, who has only shot my .40 and .45 a few times, decided it would be a good idea to have her own gun. So Saturday she gets her own XD 9. So, I've never loaded for a 9 and to be honest I haven't even shot one in 19 years. So, I'm going to grab some MBC lead for her for practice. What weight bullet, and your suggestions on powder and charge. I usually have Universal, unique or sr4756 on hand. I figure someone around here has a load that doesn't lead for this gun.

And if you don't mind, can you recommend some good factory SD ammo?

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Rollis R. Karvellis
February 11, 2011, 12:06 PM
Haven't loaded for a nine yet, but I, would start with a 115 grn. bullit, and go from there.

cheygriz
February 11, 2011, 12:57 PM
I would start reloading her practice ammo with 115 FMJ, working up fairly quickly to +P levels .

Buy her 115 or 124 +P JHP for defense. If you can find it, or have a friend in L.E, who can get it for you, use the Federal 9BPLE (115 +P+ JHP) for defense.

Sam1911
February 11, 2011, 01:00 PM
I shoot a whole mess of MBC's "Small Ball" 124 gr. round-noses over just a bit under 4.0 gr. of Titegroup. You need to seat them short for some guns, (like 1.05" or so) but they sure work well.

DoubleSawbuck
February 11, 2011, 01:20 PM
I am new to reloading so take this info for what it's worth. I have an XD9 also and have had no problems with MBC 115g with 4.6g W231 @ OAL 1.105 but I prefer the 147g MBC with 3.8 WSF @ OAL 1.16 or 147g MBC with 3.3 W231 @ OAL 1.16 because I don't need to seat them as deep. Both of those 147g loads are nice soft target loads. For self defense rounds the guy at the local shop recommended me Speer Gold Dot 147g.

docnyt
February 11, 2011, 01:34 PM
As far as SD ammo, these have worked well in my 9 mm (CZ75, SIG 226, BERETTA M9 Glock 27 with conversion barrel, etc.):

Federal Hydrashok JHP
Winchester Ranger JHP (the newer Black Talon)

mbruce
February 11, 2011, 01:41 PM
9mm for SD needs to go fast and have some major hydrostatic shock.... you want the hydrostatic shock factor that a 9mm is awesome at... so you want light and fast. 147gr is heavy in the 9mm world. i use 124gr frangible ammo in my CCW 9mm...in theory the force disperses into the object... i only use it because it was a gift.

with that said -- we are very weak and fragile in terms of animal kingdom toughness...unless your "attacker" is jacked up on meth or another drug then you will be ok with whatever you choose -- add a light and laser show and you will reduce the possibility that you have to pull the trigger.... in the end we want our guns to be a deterrent...not a lethal will of force.

Or you could give her your .40 or .45.....

docnyt
February 11, 2011, 01:53 PM
9mm for SD needs to go fast and have some major hydrostatic shock.... you want the hydrostatic shock factor that a 9mm is awesome at... so you want light and fast. 147gr is heavy in the 9mm world. i use 124gr frangible ammo in my CCW 9mm...in theory the force disperses into the object... i only use it because it was a gift.

with that said -- we are very weak and fragile in terms of animal kingdom toughness...unless your "attacker" is jacked up on meth or another drug then you will be ok with whatever you choose -- add a light and laser show and you will reduce the possibility that you have to pull the trigger.... in the end we want our guns to be a deterrent...not a lethal will of force.

Or you could give her your .40 or .45.....
Your last few statements are subjective and everybody has their own opinion so I won't hijack this thread. Personally I would rather my home SD firearms serve as lethal weapons rather than deterrents. The alarm system, locks, dog etc. serve as deterrents but I consider the firearm the last line of defense and it had better be effective. Lights and lasers have their place but ultimately they are accessories. Plus we really don't want to get into another caliber war where nobody wins.Sorry for digressing.

rfwobbly
February 11, 2011, 02:15 PM
Plinking
IMHO Sam1911 gave you the best answer. 115gr is going to "sting" her hands. I'd go with the 124gr as being much easier for her. W231/HP-38 does great with lead, meters well, and has a wide loading range.

The eastern European guns have short chambers, so OAL is going to be critical. Sam1911's OAL sounds short, but also very realistic. IMHO you're not going to find that OAL listed in any manual.

SD
You'll really need to buy several boxes and shoot them to check the feeding. I've not discovered any issues with any of the major brands, but for SD you really don't want to take anyone's word.

Sin City Shootist
February 11, 2011, 02:24 PM
I run the Winchester sxz in my .40 and I can't remember what the .45 was. Thanks Sam and double for the loads. I'm not loading FMJ because she shot the hell out of my target stands last time and so she will need lots of practice, and I'm cheap, lol.

rfwobbly
February 11, 2011, 02:41 PM
I'm not loading FMJ because she shot the hell out of my target stands last time.....

You didn't need those stinkin' stands anyway !!

:D

Sin City Shootist
February 11, 2011, 02:44 PM
You didn't need those stinkin' stands anyway !!

That's what she said too, hahaha.

mbruce
February 11, 2011, 03:34 PM
Your last few statements are subjective and everybody has their own opinion so I won't hijack this thread. Personally I would rather my home SD firearms serve as lethal weapons rather than deterrents. The alarm system, locks, dog etc. serve as deterrents but I consider the firearm the last line of defense and it had better be effective. Lights and lasers have their place but ultimately they are accessories. Plus we really don't want to get into another caliber war where nobody wins.Sorry for digressing.
If we eliminate subjective posts then most posts on this forum would be eliminated. Since the OP moved on so will I.

In the end our common goal is to help one out... in my point of view firearms are not the last line of defense-- pulling the trigger is. I want to do everything I can to minimize the chance of going to my true last line of defense.

to recap: 9mm for SD = speed for hydrostatic damage. In my subjective opinion put a light and laser on your wife's SD gun...its all about minimizing risk and they definately put odds more in your favor then without...

I load 115gr mbc rn with 4.5gr 231 @ 1.107" and get great results.
I have on order 124gr mbc rn...

Once you order 115gr you will find out more people use 124..then you'll probably switch. Ha

Hondo 60
February 11, 2011, 07:52 PM
I load 4.0 gr of tite group (max load) under a MBC Smallball.
Hodgdon recommends 3.6-4.0 for lead

I use an OAL of 1.100 - I've tried loading them lighter, but then they almost don't want to cycle my gun.

Remember start lower & work up to get reliable service for her gun.

Sin City Shootist
February 11, 2011, 08:56 PM
Thanks Hondo for the load data. What weight bullet? How was that load for leading?

mbruce
February 11, 2011, 09:21 PM
Leading will be unique to your gun and is an effect caused by more factors than powder charges. Some more experienced loaders can touch on the subject....that's just what I've gathered from reading their posts.

bloominonion
February 11, 2011, 09:32 PM
First you should pick your SD ammo. I recommend the Ranger XT (newer black talons as stated above). Those things create a ridiculous amount of damage in any inanimate object I have put em into.

Once you pick your SD ammo and fire around a box of 20, create a load that shoots very similar to it. I would start with a same grain bullet 10% below max load and work your way up to a matching ballistic trajectory. Maybe someone here can suggest a specific load for ya.

Also, if you are gonna get a light, get a very high lumen output with a fast strobe mode. If you get the right strobe rate, you will make an attacker sick and unable to do much of anything but run away. Then if they still are unaffected y the light, you have some good bullets that will stop em.

gamestalker
February 11, 2011, 09:39 PM
My Son bought a Taurus Millenium PT-111, the Titanium model. I'm going to hand load for him, and haven't loaded 9mm in about 20-25 years other than a couple of FMJ boxes for a friend about 6 months ago. He bought some 115 gr. Gold Dots and 115 gr. XTP-HP for me to work with. I'm using Longshot which performed real good the last time I loaded 9mm. But my question is for the 115 gr. XTP, I can't find a COL for that bullet and I'm pretty sure it's going to be different from that of the 115 gr, G.D. which is 1.125". I wouldn't be all that concerned about seating depth if I was loading for something other than the 9mm, it has had a long standing reputation for pressure concerns with respect to different bullet styles needing different seating depths. I compared the G.D. to the XTP bullet and they are very different in length. But on the other hand, if the 115s need to be 1.125" wouldn't that be a fairly good COL for just about any jacketed 115s regarding feeding and pressure?

ArchAngelCD
February 12, 2011, 02:11 AM
It's my opinion the best bullet weight for the 9mm is 124/125gr. I like to load between 4.0gr and 4.4gr W231/HP-38 under a 124gr LRN bullet. W231 is a good clean and accurate powder in the 9mm and a lead bullet will cost you less to practice with. As long as the bullets use a good lube you won't get any leading.

Jenrick
February 12, 2011, 02:51 AM
Precision delta's 124gr FMJ's are $77/1000 shipped currently, my preferred choice. 124gr FMJ, 4.9grs W231, and something longer the minimum OAL (sorry don't have one handy to look at and tell you).

For SD, I'd personally go with either 124gr +P Speer Gold Dot (it's basically a slightly slower straight wall .357sig), or the afore mentioned 124gr Winchester Ranger XT's. Both have performed admirably in the field.

-Jenrick

steve4102
February 12, 2011, 09:27 AM
115 gr. XTP, I can't find a COL for that bullet and I'm pretty sure it's going to be different from that of the 115 gr, G.D. which is 1.125".

Hornady #7-115gr XTP-1.075 OAL

Lyman 48-115gr XTP-1.090 OAL

cheygriz
February 12, 2011, 02:00 PM
Federal 9BPLE 115 +P+ was the "gold standard" for law enforcement for many years. Many departments still issue it.

If it works for LE, it will work for you. :)

amlevin
February 12, 2011, 02:10 PM
I load 9mm 3,000 rounds at a time. I use 6.4 grains of Power Pistol under a Montana Gold 124 gr. JHP bullet @1.125 OAL. This is my "practice round". For a SD round I merely substitute a Gold Dot Hollow Point and leave the rest alone. I get just a little more speed than published @1200 fps average but this could also be a variation in chronographs, theirs vs. mine.

Both shoot excellent in either my Sig P-229 or CZ75 SP-01.


Both of these pistols seem to like the 124 gr bullet over the 115 gr for accuracy.

Sin City Shootist
February 12, 2011, 05:30 PM
I thought you guys were all Universal and Unique fans, lol. I'm going to grab a lbs of W231 when I go get some dies.

I got my very first squib today in my FNP-40. It went click, I thought I had a dead primer. I pulled the slide back to clear and the bullet had fired into the barrel. Looks like I need to keep a better eye out on the powder.

mbruce
February 12, 2011, 06:41 PM
Everyone is a fan of Unique....use it up...231 meters better for me but unique meters well enough. I load for my wife with 231 and I usually load with unique for myself....guess i'd rather her use 231 because I can get charges to the .1 consistently.

But disregard any comment that portrays unique in a negative light...I mean who doesn't have it on his/her shelf

bloominonion
February 12, 2011, 06:49 PM
I mean who doesn't have it on his/her shelf

I don't lol! Although if I had the money, I might.

Sin City Shootist
February 12, 2011, 06:57 PM
I don't discount unique at all, I use it, and Universal in my 40 and 45 which is why I stated what powders I use at the very beginning. Hell I even use Clays too if that's all I have on hand.

I bought her a box of 124gr Remmy Golden Saber + loads for SD. Didn't want the nickel cases but oh well.

rfwobbly
February 12, 2011, 07:02 PM
I bought her a box of 124gr Remmy Golden Saber + loads for SD.

Get 2 of those brazed onto ear ring loops for Valentine's.

:D

rfwobbly
February 12, 2011, 07:06 PM
But disregard any comment that portrays unique in a negative light...I mean who doesn't have it on his/her shelf.

Exactly.

They should call it "Ubiquitous". It is anything but Unique. :rolleyes:

Sin City Shootist
February 12, 2011, 07:16 PM
Get 2 of those brazed onto ear ring loops for Valentine's.

You mean the XD wasn't good enough. Hahahahaha

Picked up some dies but they didn't have the w231 on hand. Unique it is.

mbruce
February 12, 2011, 09:13 PM
You mean the XD wasn't good enough. Hahahahaha



the XD was just the start..... you'll see. :-)

ps. - I bought MBC 115gr LRN thinking a lighter bullet = a lighter kick ... turns out I can get a more accurate bullet with a ligther kick at 124gr. I've read the same from most posts I read...

rfwobbly
February 13, 2011, 11:15 AM
Picked up some dies but they didn't have the w231 on hand. Unique it is.

This is common knowledge, but I'll repeat it for your benefit just in case. Finding Win 231 is sometimes a regional thing. Hodgdon HP-38 is the exact same powder, and is often $1 less per pound when a store has both. When stores don't have Win 231, they often stock HP-38. Try that!

Unique is not going to be the same speed as 231 and harder to meter. A Winchester powder that approaches the Unique speed range with the same good measurement characteristics as 231 is Win WSF.

Unique is very good at preventing double charges. It's a very 'fluffy' powder that has great case fill characteristics. You'll see! :D

Here's 2 powder charts that help me....
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf

;)

Sin City Shootist
February 14, 2011, 12:48 AM
They didn't have the HP38 either but they usually do carry the 231. I believe they had the WSF on the shelf so maybe I pick some up Tuesday. I load unique for my .40, so I'm familiar with it characteristics.

She liked the gun. Had her run a mag of the SD stuff, definitely had a bit more kick and feed well.

CZ57
February 14, 2011, 02:31 AM
I looked through some manuals and found that Unique was used in the Lyman 46th edition to get the most accurate cast bullet load with #358345 which is a 115 gr. SWC. The load range was 4.5 - 5.7 grains. Velocity ran 1025 - 1210 FPS respectively.

Your XD should have a long enough throat to avoid having to load short. With the MBC 115 or 124 you should be able to load to 1.122"/28.5mm without any problem. After you load a complete round you can verify OAL in your pistols chamber by dropping a round in it and hearing a "clink" sound and it should be easily removable.;)

TheCracker
February 18, 2011, 11:32 PM
Universal clays rocks in my 9mm's.
My 92f and SR9c both love the 115 or 124 g Remington hp's(not golden sabers, never tried them). Price per thousand is good at midwayusa. I buy which ever one they have in stock but prefer the 124. Love them because they are just barely more than the fmj's and are suitable for self defense.

Both guns prefer the higher end charge. I load 4.8 g (5g is max)on the lee auto disk (.53). I've also done some oal tests and the 1.120 were the most accurate.

I tried some 124g cast with universal but they SUCKED with any charge.

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