30-06 vs 300 Win Mag


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Shoot&Ski
February 11, 2011, 06:03 PM
Not trying to start any wars here, but I am looking to get a second hunting rifle and can't decide between 30-06 or a 300 win mag.

I currently hunt deer, elk, and antelope in Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota with my 270win, and it has served me well. However, I feel a little under-gunned during elk season and, if I ever draw a Moose tag I would like something with a bit more powder.

I have been comparing ballistics of both the 30-06 and the 300 win mag, and the 30-06 is a nice jump up from the 270 (but at the same time not that much different down range), but the 300 win mag seems nice too because it has a bit more power and a trajectory closer to what I am used to with my 270.

So, why not go with the 300 mag? Many people on the forums have pointed out that they are skeptical of folks who own them because the greater recoil ultimately causes flinch and reduces accuracy... but wouldn't the 300 mag be more versatile if I can load lighter loads that are nearly equal to the 30-06 (so recoil should be too) for target practice or lighter game? And if I can handle the recoil, which being a large guy and never having recoil problems before, I think I can, I can load full house for hunting big game and for carrying in grizzly country. What do you all think?

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Cryogaijin
February 11, 2011, 06:10 PM
I carry a 30-06 for moose hunting up here in Alaska, and I've never felt particularly undergunned. I like the cartridge just fine, and recommend it to anyone wanting a big game rifle. IME comfort and accuracy with the weapon are the most important factors (within reason. I wouldn't advocate anything in .22 or .24/6mm for moose) in a hunting rifle.

henschman
February 11, 2011, 06:19 PM
Either one will kill a moose. My family up in Alaska kills moose with anything from a .308 to .30-06 to .300 win mag to a .338 win mag.

Out of the 2 you mentioned, the .300 win mag will give you better ballistic coefficients with the heavier rounds and the velocities you can run them at. It is a flat-shooting round that is great at long distance. It stays supersonic and ballistically effective out past 1200 yards.

However, .30-06 is cheaper, and so are the components if you reload. Plus, you can get cheap surplus ammo if you like to do a lot of shooting besides hunting. The greek stuff the CMP sells is cheap and high quality, with reloadable brass.

Art Eatman
February 11, 2011, 06:37 PM
For all that I've always been an '06 afficianado, if I were moving up from a .270 (which I once used a good bit), I'd go to the .300 for elk. It's not that I figure it's bunches better, but it's at least a noticeable increase from a .270.

Hey, the Zen thing of belief is important!

ngnrd
February 11, 2011, 06:54 PM
I own rifles in all three cartridges. If you were going to trade the 270, I would probably recommend the '06. But, assuming that you're keeping the 270, I'd opt for the 300WM. Not that there's anything wrong with the '06 - it certainly is effective enough on moose. But, I think there would be less overlap between the 270 and the 300, with the 300 giving you a little better top end if you ever need it.

Of course, the 270 has taken plenty of moose too. Just remember that, whatever you hunt with, proper bullet construction and shot placement trumps bullet diameter and velocity every time.

jmr40
February 11, 2011, 07:04 PM
The 300 mag will give you around 50-75 yards more useful range, but will be of no advantage on larger game. Pushing the same caliber bullets faster will give you flatter trajectory. If you want a more effective round for larger animals you will have to go to a larger caliber.

Kingcreek
February 11, 2011, 07:09 PM
keep the .270 and add a .338 for elk and bigger

Cryogaijin
February 11, 2011, 08:17 PM
Is there any truth to the statement that "Because the .300winmag has a smaller neck and shoulder, longer rounds, especially monometal rounds, have to be seated into the powder area of the case, resulting in diminished maximum velocities compared to 30-06"?

I've only ever dealt with the aught six, but I've heard that from a couple people. Any truth?

david58
February 11, 2011, 08:37 PM
keep the .270 and add a .338 for elk and bigger
Why in the world a .338 for elk? How much range time can you stand or afford to spend? 30-06 is plenty for elk at any ethical range.

TexasPatriot.308
February 11, 2011, 08:39 PM
the 30-06 is plenty gun, with right ammo will do for any North American game but if you want to folow a crowd the the 300 win mag and all other magnums and ultra mags are a must have....too bad most of these gun owners are flinching when they pull the trigger on these canons....

nathan
February 11, 2011, 08:59 PM
I would go for the 7 mm R M. Flatter and higer B C.

HOLY DIVER
February 11, 2011, 09:17 PM
IMHO ...30-06 i've never been a fan of those mule kicking magnum cartridges lots of moose made there way to the dinner table via 30-06

goldie
February 11, 2011, 09:30 PM
The newer hornady high performance ammo makes the 30-06 just that much more versatle,too,moving it just a bit closer to the 300....

ojibweindian
February 11, 2011, 09:42 PM
If I had a 270, I wouldn't really bother with getting a 30-06 or a 300 WM as all three of these are roughly on par with each other in terms of capability. I'd go up to a 338 WM. And, if you reload, you have the option of loading down.

If forced to choose only one of them, I'd go with the 30-06.

bpl
February 11, 2011, 09:47 PM
30-06

JDMorris
February 11, 2011, 10:28 PM
I'd get a .300 mag, since I have a .308 that can do anything a 30-06 can with the right loads cooked up, and .300 mag hits, HARD.

christcorp
February 11, 2011, 10:35 PM
I would go for the 7 mm R M. Flatter and higer B C.
+100

On paper, there's a lot of people who promote the 30-06 as the best all around caliber. I own 2 30-06 rifles. I LOVE them. But If I could only choose one, I'd take the 7mm remington magnum.

kludge
February 11, 2011, 10:51 PM
Do you handload? .338-06

Gordon
February 11, 2011, 10:56 PM
I got my first hi power rifle at 19 in 1965 and it was a .270 Winchester model 70. I still have it! I killed many deer and such with it but no elk or moose. I bought a .300 Weatherby Mark V in 1976 to go to Africa , which it did and killed everything below buff splendidly. I have 3 .300 Weatherbys currently. I had a .300 Winchester Mag in a heavy barrel Rem 700 target rifle but had a .300 Weatherby heavy barrel made and sold the .300 Winchester. I much prefer the Weatherby case as it is noticeably flatter than the 30-06 class cartridges and today it is even better with all the good bullets! I always like the 200 Nosler Partition for elk and up, never lost anything I hit with it in 35+ years of use on heavy game. I think a .300 Weatherby recoils like a .338 with 250 grain bullets. Which is about like a 12 gauge heavy duck load. Put a good brake on it and a Limbsaver and you are plenty comfortable but loud! Just my $.02 to go for the .300 Weatherby instead.

Quick Karl
February 11, 2011, 11:23 PM
My 2-cents -- 280 Ackley Improved.

ekgandj
February 11, 2011, 11:31 PM
Just got a 300 win mag with a muzzle brake and it does not kick any harder than a 308. My vote is 300 win mag. Although the 7mm mag is tempting.


Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk

Geno
February 11, 2011, 11:32 PM
I agree fully with Gordon, assuming that you can afford the .300 Wea Mag. I lowered the Weatherby ammunition's cost by reloading.

I've used Weatherby Mark Vs a lot for big game. With either the .257 Wea Mag and the .300 Wea Mag, you only fire once. :cool: I never witnessed a big game animal even so much as twitch after a hit, and that to 525 yards distance.

After I had my neck fused, I sold my .300 Wea Mag and bought a Mark V in .300 Win Mag. It is also less expensive to reload. I switched out the cheap synthetic stock for a B&C Medalist, added a picatinny rail, and a NF 3.5-15X56 scope. Needless to say, it is now a hefty rifle. Recoil is a push, not a punch. All the same, I will have an Answer muzzle brake installed so I can observe the projectile's impact.

Your choice, a .300 Win Mag or even .300 Wea Mag. Either is a formidable cartridge.

Geno

memphisjim
February 11, 2011, 11:41 PM
I think the sound increase of the magnum rounds is more of a concern that the recoil
By ear it seem that the magnum is as much louder than the 30 06. Than the 30 06 is over a 22lr rifle

biggameballs
February 12, 2011, 12:04 AM
Normally I would say 06 because I think Magnums are a waste of powder and money but if you already have a 270 and really want more gun you might as well make a substantial move up and go for the magnum. 270 is fine for elk though. Just get a quality 150 grain bullet. The newer loads like the Hornady superformance with the 150 grain GMX bullet will handle an elk no problem.

saturno_v
February 12, 2011, 02:34 AM
As already suggested, if you are planning on keeping your 270 I would get a 338 Winchester Magnum (average rifle and factory ammo would basically not be more expensive than a 300 WM) to significantly diversify your battery....it would be a serious upgrade in downrange power....there are some 338 loadings that retain up to 2500 ft/lb of energy at 500 yards with fat, heavy bullets....

Lloyd Smale
February 12, 2011, 06:25 AM
dont let anyone fool you. the 300 mag is a step up from an o6. I love both of them and if you were limiting yourself to 150-165 grain bullets id say the o6 is fine but where the 300 shines is using 180s and is a big step up when your loading 200 grain bullets. there will allways be a place for both in my safe.

critter
February 12, 2011, 06:37 AM
I think your thinking in pretty sound myself. Sure the '06 will do it for you but the 300 will do it better IMHO. Your analysis of the trajectory being close to what you are used to is a plus.

I have both but my favorite is the 300. Good flat shooter, hard hitter, capable of heavy bullets for the tough stuff, ammo readily available in a variety of loadings and, if you reload, you can shoot anything from mice to moose.

Get what you like-you don't have a 'bad choice' listed.

GooseGestapo
February 12, 2011, 07:01 AM
Consider where and how you're hunting. If you're hunting from horse-back and will only carry the rifle for short periods of time while stalking, and then making long shots, get the magnum, and I recommend the .338mag. The recoil difference isn't that great. The "flinch" on impact is greater with the larger bore. Otherwise, the elk either run off with a bad hit, or drop with a good hit.

If you're walking long distances in the tall mountains, I recommend you just stick with the .270. After all, elk aren't bullet proof. You just need to stick a 150gr Nosler Partition where it matters.

I've got a .300RUM, but when it comes time to hike 5-7mi from camp to glass for elk, and then stalk 3-5mi, and then hike 5-7mi back to camp, it's my 7lb 7mm08 or .30/06 thats gone for a walk. (If it's thick, the short 7mm08, if open, the long barreled '06). The 10lb .300RUM or .338/06 stay at home. This coming fall, the .338MarlinExp. at 8lbs will make the trek. It balances in the hand better than any of the bolt-actions.....

BoilerUP
February 12, 2011, 08:59 AM
Using Federal's own ballistic tables and the exact same bullet (180gr Accubond):

The 300WM generates 260fps greater at the muzzle than the '06, and nearly 600ft/lb more energy.

At 200yd, the WM has a 240fps and 475ft/lb advantage.

At 500yd, the WM has a 213fps and 340ft/lb advantage...but the '06 is still over 1400ft/lb of energy.

Realistically, would an elk be able to tell a difference between the two (unlike your shoulder and wallet)?

Casefull
February 12, 2011, 09:04 AM
If you do not mind the extra recoil go with 300. You will hear lots of folks say the flatter trajectory is not a big deal but in the field it is. If you take game on the run you will appreciate eliminating some of the bullet drop out of making quick decisions. I noticed the difference from 06 to 7mag. When I had my rifle built I went to the 300 to get the velocity with the larger bullet.

brnmuenchow
February 12, 2011, 09:54 AM
I would keep the .270win. and get the .300win.mag. Then just practice as much as you can with the recoil difference so that you would be more confident when it comes pulling the trigger on a follow up shot if needed. Some people I have ran into firing a .300win.mag. have sometimes struggled with it becaouse they might be a little too sensitive to it and anticipate the recoil.

Moose458
February 12, 2011, 09:55 AM
You can't substitute big bullets for poor shot placement. That said, there isn't any animal in North America that can't be taken with an 06. Recoil becomes a factor with the bigger magums from .338 to 375 H&H, to the .458s. Personally I like the .300 Win mag. I reload using 180 gr Barnes bullets, and it is a combo that has worked great up to and including Bison, and I have a lot of confidence in it, which probably helps my marksmanship with it. Either the 30-06 or the .300 Winnie will work for you, it's just a matter of which one you prefer.

david58
February 12, 2011, 10:00 AM
I own an '06, and can get kinda tired at the range after a long shooting session.

I have never shot a .300 at a target. I did shoot one at an elk (400 yards, had to track it through rhododendrons and reprod for 4 hours...long day it was...I never shoot at that range any more, period). The shots taken at the elk could have been a .22LR....never noticed the recoil. Methinks I would discover recoil if I was sitting behind it at the bench......

TUBBY1
February 12, 2011, 10:35 AM
I have a 300 win mag and found it brutal until i put on a kick-eze butt plate. Now the flinch factor is gone.when in a hunting situation recoil doesn't seem to matter as my mind is focused on the shot. It's at the range you'll feel the difference.

DM~
February 12, 2011, 11:06 AM
Down side to the 300 mag. is, a LOT more recoil/muzzle blast and a heavier gun. Nothing wrong with a "properly loaded" 30-06! (read loaded with 200NP's)

I've had no problems killing moose and bear with a 30-06, and yes i have used a 300 Win. mag, also the wby mag. too.

DM

Vern Humphrey
February 12, 2011, 11:17 AM
I think the sound increase of the magnum rounds is more of a concern that the recoil

By ear it seem that the magnum is as much louder than the 30 06.

And when you add a muzzle brake, as someone suggested, it's even worse. The last thing I would want on a hunting rifle is a muzzle brake.

jpwilly
February 12, 2011, 12:00 PM
Quote:
I think the sound increase of the magnum rounds is more of a concern that the recoil

By ear it seem that the magnum is as much louder than the 30 06.

And when you add a muzzle brake, as someone suggested, it's even worse. The last thing I would want on a hunting rifle is a muzzle brake.

Yea there's no way I'd want a muzzle brake unless I could always be wearing some sort of in the ear electroinic hearing protection. Elk, Moose etc is pretty tasty but I woudn't want to damage my hearing.


30-06 is plenty IMO but 7mm mag would be an excellent option for a do all as well.

bad_aim_billy
February 12, 2011, 12:18 PM
I currently hunt deer, elk, and antelope in Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota with my 270win, and it has served me well. However, I feel a little under-gunned during elk season and, if I ever draw a Moose tag I would like something with a bit more powder.

Just get a .600 NE if it makes you feel better. After all, anything in the .270/30.06 class won't kill an elk or moose, they're bulletproof.

Shoot&Ski
February 12, 2011, 12:21 PM
It seems like people keep saying that the 300 mag is going to be so much more expensive, but the rifle itself will not be, most rifles under $800 are available in a 300 mag, and many under $600 are too. I understand that the factory ammo is quite a bit more, but if I am reloading, once I buy brass the components are basically the same in price as the 30-06 except for more powder consumption, right?

It just seems like out of the two, the 300 mag is inherently more versatile because it can basically be a 30-06 with lighter loads, but then can be loaded to full power

Shoot&Ski
February 12, 2011, 12:38 PM
bad aim billy:
Just get a .600 NE if it makes you feel better. After all, anything in the .270/30.06 class won't kill an elk or moose, they're bulletproof.

Wow. If you read my original post, you will note I am considering a 30-06 so obviously I do not think elk and moose are bullet proof. I am just looking for a good compliment to my 270 for the times I feel it is limited, like over 200 yards on elk.

Maverick223
February 12, 2011, 01:13 PM
Amongst the two choices i'd choose the .300WM hands down, though the .338WM and .375H&H should be considerations as well (despite the increase in power I don't find the recoil to be much if any worse with these and they approximate the trajectory of an '06 with proper bullet selection). The .30-06Spd, albeit a fantastic cartridge, simply doesn't provide the increase in performance and large game capability that you seek. In a lightweight hunting rifle I find the recoil of a .300WM and .338WM to be just short of brutal (OTOH my .300WM target rifle clocks in at 15lbs+ and is a pussycat), so that should be taken into consideration.

Whatever you decide, absolutely forget about the notion of adding a muzzle brake for recoil reduction.

:)

Skyshot
February 13, 2011, 08:08 AM
If you can shoot at all, I don't see much benefit in the .30 cals over the .270 I would look at the .338's or possibly a 35 wheelin or even bigger if your not recoil sensitive.

courtgreene
February 13, 2011, 12:54 PM
I think you were right on with your original statement that you are looking to diversify, and already have a .270. The '06 will have way too much overlap with the .270 given your stated goal. While I will stir the pot by adding .300WSM to the mix, I think you are right in what seems like leaning toward the magnum. You were also right in that, other than brass, the components are essentially the same and you just use a tad more powder. Recoil is less about the chambering and more about the rifle from which it is shot. Build a rifle to deliver less recoil and you will have less recoil. I've got a Rem700 in .300WSM that has negligible recoil, but i've shot a 30'06 that nearly put me on the ground. The difference wasn't the chamberings, it was was the rifles. Your idea about the mags giving a closer trajectory to the .270 is also spot on. They are both overbores and thus will have flatter trajectories. Your thinking is sound, just do what you wanted to do and forget about the pet chamberings of others. They can use what they want and you can use what you want.

And others were correct in that unless you have a medical need for one, brakes do not belong on hunting rifles.

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