Ffl questions


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1SOW
February 12, 2011, 01:18 AM
I've little experience with using an FFL, so I have questions I hope someone has experience with.

First, I sent a pistol back back to SIG for warranty work. They sent me a label , I FEDXd the pistol to them, they fixed it and FEDX'd it back to me personally.

I want to do some smith work to another pistol. The smith provided an FFL/ address for me to FEDX the gun to his FFL holder. He said I needed to include an FFL with my gun for him to return it to MY FFL holder.

Is this correct? Do I need to have the gun returned to an FFL address?

No change of ownership, just some custom work on the pistol done in Louisiana and returned to me in TX.

Any experienced info would be appreciated.

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Sediment
February 12, 2011, 06:49 AM
Hmm, that does sound a bit strange. As far as I know about interstate shipping for smithing/warranty work on personal weapons all you need is the name/ address for the FFL you are shipping to. Since you are not buying or selling a weapon you shouldn't need to provide you own FFL to mail a package for you.

Maybe he doesn't understand the law, or just trying to cover his butt and avoid legal issues.

Or we are both wrong and it's required for interstate and CA has some funky legal issues when it comes to guns. I can verify the last part, I live here :(

Bubbles
February 12, 2011, 09:03 AM
You probably have to go through these extra hoops because the guy you found to work on the gun, while working as a gunsmith, does not hold an FFL. If that's the case he's breaking the law:
See the ATF FAQ - Dealer, Manufacturer, & Gunsmith (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/manufacturers.html#dealer-gunsmithing) and the ATF Gunsmith FAQ (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html) for more info.

Legally you can send a firearm to a gunsmith for repair, customizing, upgrades, etc. and have it shipped directly back to you. This is why you shipped the gun directly to Sig and they sent it back to you legally.

Because there's an FFL in the middle for your second transaction, your gunsmith/armorer can't legally ship the gun back to you, but only to your FFL.

TexasRifleman
February 12, 2011, 09:32 AM
Bubbles is probably right. Is the person working on your gun a licensed gunsmith?

He may or may not need to be depending on what type of work he is doing (though he probably does), but it's worth looking into.

If the smith has an FFL you can ship it direct to him.

Frank Ettin
February 12, 2011, 01:33 PM
I'd look for another gunsmith. It sounds like a hassle, and if sends your gun back to an FFL for you, I believe you'll need to go through the 4473 background check process to receive your gun from the FFL.

I've always used gunsmith that have the proper licensing. So I've sent the gun directly to the gunsmith, and he returned it directly to me.

1SOW
February 12, 2011, 07:23 PM
Thanks guys.

This is a ball of wax. The guy's smith license comes next week (true), he is a 'new' smith just starting out as a business. He's recieving my gun through an FFL holder he works with. It's a one day job (hopefully).

I asked him this same question and he's checking the ATF website info pages.

I checked with two FFL holders I know, and they didn't think an FFL was required to "return the gun to me". If I need another one, I'll get it; but it's sure not an intuitive process.

Thank you again,
Don

browneu
February 12, 2011, 07:42 PM
Wouldn't you have to go through another background check if he shipped it to an FFL?

It wouldn't make sense to go through a background check on a gun you already own.

NavyLCDR
February 12, 2011, 08:36 PM
This is a ball of wax. The guy's smith license comes next week (true), he is a 'new' smith just starting out as a business. He's recieving my gun through an FFL holder he works with. It's a one day job (hopefully).

This is the problem. You are NOT sending the gun to the FFL to be worked on, upgraded or customized. You are sending the gun for transfer to an unlicensed person. That's the reason you have to have an FFL on your end to return the gun to. Because unless a gun is received by an FFL for the purposes of repair, they cannot ship the gun directly back to you.

Wouldn't you have to go through another background check if he shipped it to an FFL?

It wouldn't make sense to go through a background check on a gun you already own.

In this case, I would say yes. He will have to go through the background check and 4473. Because of the reason above, the gun was not shipped to an FFL for repair - it was shipped to an FFL for transfer to an unlicensed person.

IF the gun was delivered to a local FFL, who mailed the gun to a licensed manufacturer or gunsmith - then when the gun was returned, it could be returned to the owner without a NICS check or 4473, because in that case, the sending FFL would only be acting as mailing agent.

But, in the OP's case, the FFL(s) are acting as transfer agents.

Sounds like a very, very shady deal to me.

1SOW
February 12, 2011, 08:43 PM
Sounds like a very, very shady deal to me.

I don't believe it was 'intentionally' that way. This is not a 'shady character', just a new one to the business; but in my 64 yrs I've been wrong -- once.;)

He's reshaping the hammer hooks and polishing a new sear. I trust 'him' or I wouldn't of signed on. The "system" may be another story, hopefully not.

The guys with FFL's I talked to today, thought that if was returned to the "sender", it wouldn't be an issue.

Bhamrichard
February 12, 2011, 09:17 PM
The guys with FFL's I talked to today, thought that if was returned to the "sender", it wouldn't be an issue.Strictly from a legal standing, they would be incorrect.

You can ship your firearm to a Gunsmith/FFL holder, and they can return it to you directly, no problem.

Because your sending to an unlicensed individual, and involving an FFL on the receiving end as a middle man, neither your gunsmith, nor his FFL friend, can return the gun to you directly.

NavyLCDR
February 12, 2011, 09:46 PM
your gunsmith cannot return the gun to you directly.

And neither can the middle-man FFL, because they did not receive the gun for repairs, they received the gun for transfer.

1SOW
February 13, 2011, 12:25 AM
I guess I can grasp that aspect.

Thanks again.

Bubbles
February 13, 2011, 10:09 AM
I would wait to ship the gun until the gunsmith had his license in hand.

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