need help with local police


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krupparms
February 12, 2011, 05:30 AM
I live in S.OR. It is leagle to carry openly here,yet in the last week I have had the local police point guns at me & threaten to shoot me all with out just cause.The fact that the law says we may carry openly is ignored& guns are pointed at you as they scream how they will shoot you ! If you speak up about your rights you are threaten evan more! As a fomer police OFF.& disabled vetran I cannot belive That evan tought I have done nothing wrong that the police can tresspass& threaten to shoot me at my home! This is not the place that we should have to fight for our freedom, But it is come to that! I live in fear that I will be shot by the police for exersizing my RTKBA! What do I do? I cannot live like this! If I am going to be shot by the police,please keep fighting for our rights & do not belive the lies that will be told to coverup my murder,Ever notice that everyone they kill is crazy?Long live the Republic! & help!:confused: P.S.Please ignour spelling,Its hell getting old & liveing in pain 24/7.

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joe_security
February 12, 2011, 07:01 AM
Consider consulting with an attorney. Having done that, consider asking for a meeting with the Chief of Police. DO NOT bring a firearm to the meeting, or anywhere near any government building.

kart02
February 12, 2011, 07:06 AM
I also live in Southern Oregon. Why don't you just get a carry permit from the County Sheriff. :confused:

jonmerritt
February 12, 2011, 09:40 AM
why don't the cops believe that you can have a gun and not be a criminal. It has nothing to do with a permit.

bigfatdave
February 12, 2011, 11:24 AM
Why don't you just get a carry permit Because he DOESN'T NEED ONE

krupparms, screw it, sue them, make a public embarrassment for their silly policies and willful ignorance. Check on the legality of recording po-po in your area, and nail them to the wall, threatening law-abiding citizens takes them from the realm of peace officers and into the realm of bullies and thugs.

TexasRifleman
February 12, 2011, 11:32 AM
Are there any state RKBA organizations there? Maybe reach out to them and get some suggestions. Sometimes in the most extreme cases these groups will step in and help with legal issues like this.

Owen Sparks
February 12, 2011, 12:15 PM
You were threatened with deadly force and unlawful arrest. Talk to a lawyer!

bikemutt
February 12, 2011, 12:17 PM
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forum.php

ColtPythonElite
February 12, 2011, 12:17 PM
We need more to the story to determine of the cops had "just cause".

augustino
February 12, 2011, 12:27 PM
Okay so you're POSITIVE (beyond a shadow of a doubt) that the law governing your carrying of handguns is that 1. you do NOT require a permit and 2. that open, NON-concealed carry of firearms, is a right you and other citizens have.

Once you're certain of these issues get yourself an inexpensive video camera, one of those flip type cameras are cheap and as small as a pack of cigarettes. Carry it with you and the next time you have the police draw their firearms on you and threaten to shoot you be sure you shout out loud that you are videotaping them and their actions. Then SUE the pants off of them and encourage others to whom this is happening to do likewise. Get a few solid lawsuits against this crew of thugs and maybe they'll review their policy towards handgun law enforcement.
Of course be sure to secure an attorney that will work and accept payment based upon the settlement of the suit. Contact the NRA and ask for a list of gun friendly lawyers in your area for representation.

I am all about obeying and adhering to the laws but that goes two ways. The police also should adhere to the same laws we as citizens must abide by.

ColtPythonElite
February 12, 2011, 12:37 PM
Eh, where I live the cops have video/audio, too....We need to hear the circumstances regarding why he was in a situation involving the police before we can start making assumptions that they violated anybody's rights or any laws.

bigfatdave
February 12, 2011, 01:16 PM
Eh, where I live the cops have video/audio, tooSure, and they publish it or "lose" it as is convenient to them.

ColtPythonElite
February 12, 2011, 01:28 PM
****nevermind****

krupparms
February 12, 2011, 02:47 PM
Thanks to all of you that gave me advice! I am going to speak with the Dep. Chief about this,(they will not let me speak to the Chief !).As to the cercumstances, I was sitting in my home.Some one knocked on my F.door,The police did not say it was them,When I open the door & saw that it was (2) po-po,I put my hands in f. of me and stated that I had a gun in a holster on my hip.At this point only (1) off. started screaming at me & pulled his Glock,pointed at my head & stated he was going to shoot me.I put my hands behind my head as told,The screming off. then took my gun & kept yelling he was going to shoot me! As I had no reasion to be treated this way,I started yelling back for him to back off & lower his Glock & tell me what was going on! They were looking for someone I do not know or have had at my home.Seems they were at the wrong address.The other police off.was leaning on my fence in my yard,She never pulled her gun , nor did she take part in the drama,she just kept looking at the screamer like he was crazy.I told them to leave & place my 1911 on the ground,instead he entered my home without permission,and started to look around.At that point he still had his glock in his hand! I started yelling at him to get out &leave my home &yard ! As he left he started calling in to find any way he could get me! As I had done nothing wrong,he had to leave.Some of my naibors spoke to the police about their actions &asked for the screamers card! At this point he gave them cards ,but made them show I.D.s & calling them in over the mike.At this point he started making his case about pulling a gun on me no one wanted to here it & left ASAP.As I stated I will be talking with his super.BUT I will also be speaking to an Att. ASAP.I will try to keep this posted as long as I can for the people out there that care.Thank you to all that responded.LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC !!:fire:

ColtPythonElite
February 12, 2011, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the update.

krupparms
February 12, 2011, 02:53 PM
Thanks For your offer & advice! Always glad to hear from a fellow Patriot!

Owen Sparks
February 12, 2011, 03:35 PM
Talk to a lawyer before you talk to the deputy chief. Were there any witnesses?

Deanimator
February 12, 2011, 04:37 PM
Assuming that things happened as you say, file a formal, written complaint against the officer.


FOIA request ALL materials relating to the incident, including the LEOs' field notes.
Do NOT waste time with verbal complaints.
Do NOT let anyone talk you out of the complaint.
If you believe that witness intimidation was involved, make SURE that that's stated EXPLICITLY in your complaint.
Consult with an attorney.
If possible, have the attorney accompany you to your meeting.


If they will not allow you to file a formal complaint (and maybe even if they do), your next step is a 1983 Federal civil rights suit.

The odds are that this was NOT the officer's first misconduct, nor if you do not act (and maybe if you do) will it be his last.

If you want more bad cops, let this one misbehave without consequences.

Deanimator
February 12, 2011, 04:39 PM
Were there any witnesses?
I believe he's already said there were, AND that there were apparent attempts on the scene to intimidate them. THAT needs to go into the complaint as well.

BENBRU
February 12, 2011, 04:42 PM
I've heard of this happening before. Even though my city/county/state is pretty pro gun rights the local PD is not. I'm a big fan of having a lawyer on speed dial... Letters to your favorite local newspaper, including the officer's name are always a great way to draw attention to your case.

cassandrasdaddy
February 12, 2011, 04:45 PM
any idea what brought them to your house in the first place?

chihuahuatn
February 12, 2011, 05:05 PM
I would consult with an attorney immediately

cambeul41
February 12, 2011, 05:21 PM
Attorney!

Deanimator
February 12, 2011, 05:22 PM
any idea what brought them to your house in the first place?
It could be anything or nothing at all.

Not too long ago, I got a knock on my door. I asked who it was. They said it was the police. I asked them (without ever opening the apartment door) how I could help them. They said that _I_ had called them. I said, "nope". They asked if I was <name>. Again, I said "nope". They asked if I knew <name>. Once more, "nope". Whoever it was then said, "Then disregard", and left. I never opened the door.

I can't say for sure why they were there (assuming they were really cops), but a day or two previously, my upstairs neighbors played rap "music" loud enough to rattle pictures on the wall until 3:00am. That day they had done it again. My supposition is that somebody else in the building called the police, but were too cowardly to use their real name or apartment number, substituting a phony name and my apartment number.

The neighbors made a lot of noise one more time, then apparently moved out. I haven't seen or heard from the police since. During the entire series of events, I neither called the police nor gave anyone ANY reason to call them on me.

Blakenzy
February 12, 2011, 06:16 PM
A good idea is to always record interaction with police, provided you have the equipment handy(most modern cellphones record voice and video) and are able do so in an unobtrusive manner. However, this practice is being willfully persecuted in some places (http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/are-cameras-the-new-guns/) :banghead:, as cops realize that recordings hold them to a high standard of conduct and they have to tread more carefully; they just can't allow that to spread.

Deanimator
February 12, 2011, 06:23 PM
A good idea is to always record interaction with police, provided you have the equipment handy(most modern cellphones record voice and video) and are able do so in an unobtrusive manner. However, this practice is being willfully persecuted in some places , as cops realize that recordings hold them to a high standard of conduct and they have to tread more carefully; they just can't allow that to spread.
Make CERTAIN you know the applicable laws where YOU are.

Ohio is a one party consent state. You can record any conversation to which you are a party, and with no permission or even knowledge by other participants.

In addition, you can record public employees in the course of their public duties where they have no expectation of privacy, so long as you do not intrude sufficiently to interfere with their legitimate duties. Not too long ago an Akron cop got unpaid leave for falsely arresting a woman who videotaped an arrest in her neighborhood. Being especially stupid, he ignored the order of a supervisor to NOT harass the woman. I believe that she's suing him AND the city. He hasn't got a snowball's chance in Riyadh of beating the suit either.

Shadow 7D
February 12, 2011, 07:12 PM
CONTACT THE FBI
sorry but you need to contact the FBI civil rights division, the part where they entered your home, 4th amendment violation, that being said, don't expect great things, and
you should get best lawyer the Sheriffs office can afford (as in one that works for 33% of the settlement)

sonick808
February 12, 2011, 07:42 PM
give 'em hell! If you stand up for this now, it will help all of us down the road. Within your means and abilities of course, don't hurt yourself mentally, physically or monetarily. I am sorry to hear this happened to you. Good luck and keep us posted.

MIL-DOT
February 12, 2011, 08:09 PM
Slow down a minute,folks. This guy ( the OP) is supposedly a former police officer and disabled veteran,and laments "getting old" yet speaks and spells like he was oxygen deprived at birth, and uses terms like "PO-PO" ???
This one doesn't pass the smell test, for me at least. Methinks our chains are being yanked. :scrutiny:

One-Time
February 12, 2011, 08:41 PM
Im ex LE and look at my name, call 'em whatever, lets focus on his right to bear arms

krupparms
February 12, 2011, 09:05 PM
To mil-dot I do not need a spelling lession! I used the word po po because someone ealse used it .I am not the best speller or typest , never said I was!! WHO cares ,some of us who are disabled have problems,sue me!!!! I did not come here to listen to your paranoid ideas! This is about what is right& wrong in this REPUBLIC! WAKE UP!!! IF you just have to know ,I started as aU.S.A.F. Security police OFF.I worked with the 381st S.P.S.& went on to train local & state P.D.s in the S.E.after I got out of A.F.! happy now or just feeling the egg on your face.:banghead:

krupparms
February 12, 2011, 09:26 PM
I would like to think every one for the advice.I was already thinking along those lines.Glad to see so many Patriots out there that care about an old mans problems,I was not sure if there any left.God be praised! And no mil-dot I am not a muslem for useing that phraise!It make me belive that the REPUBLIC will out live me,maybe?But I plan to follow the advice given to me by the members that were concerned& sent me good advice&wished me good luck.To MIL-DOT,I can let that last slide,you seem to be ok,just a misunderstanding,But next time look at the issue,not someones spelling!GOD BLESS our REPUBLIC!

Arkansas Paul
February 13, 2011, 12:20 AM
Slow down a minute,folks. This guy ( the OP) is supposedly a former police officer and disabled veteran,and laments "getting old" yet speaks and spells like he was oxygen deprived at birth, and uses terms like "PO-PO" ???
This one doesn't pass the smell test, for me at least. Methinks our chains are being yanked.

That was my thought as soon as I read the thread title, much less clicked on it. Wish I wouldn't have.

franconialocal
February 13, 2011, 01:44 AM
To Bigfatdave....please don't let the actions of ONE officer be a reflection on all of us. I feel like some of your comments are a little low road like "they publish it or lose it as convenient to them" eluding to the thought that ALL police EVERYWHERE are corrupt (???) I resent that. I'm sympathetic to the OP and his dilemma, but can't we have a mature discussion about it without all the anti-cop sentiment? OP is not really giving a ton of detail about the events that led up to his interaction...and this officer may have had very good cause to draw a sidearm on him (like he matched the description of the suspect or many, many other factors). Does this excuse the yelling and screaming? Not necessarily, but having been an officer himself the OP should be able to conceptualize the fear that this officer may have been in too for HIS life. I'm not going to sit and make excuses for this officer just because he is a fellow brother-in-blue, but let's get all the facts first before we just go jumping to conclusions please. Let's keep this high-road.

Deanimator
February 13, 2011, 09:32 AM
To Bigfatdave....please don't let the actions of ONE officer be a reflection on all of us.
The simple truth is that incidents like this and others cause people to be rightfully wary of the police.

Until there's a smart phone app that can unfailingly distinguish a good cop from a bad one, every citizen is well advised to conduct himself strictly by the book in any law enforcement encounter, and to waive NO right and to consent to NOTHING.

In any law enforcement encounter the letter of the law is your friend, whether you're a citizen OR a cop.

XD Fan
February 13, 2011, 10:08 AM
Slow down a minute,folks. This guy ( the OP) is supposedly a former police officer and disabled veteran,and laments "getting old" yet speaks and spells like he was oxygen deprived at birth, and uses terms like "PO-PO" ???
This one doesn't pass the smell test, for me at least. Methinks our chains are being yanked.

I concur with Mil-Dot and Arkansas Paul. This one smells a little weird. Maybe I am wrong, but I think there is more to this story or at least another side to it. Statements like the following do not lend credibility to the OP:

do not belive the lies that will be told to coverup my murder

Uneasy Rider
February 13, 2011, 10:21 AM
Krupparms is coming off very poorly. To me it sounds like the Police reacted like they would have to anyone who answers their door with a gun.

I feel bad for the poor officers who are getting sucked into this mess by just doing their jobs.

Paranoid & angry is a terrible to go through life.

Deanimator
February 13, 2011, 10:33 AM
Krupparms is coming off very poorly. To me it sounds like the Police reacted like they would have to anyone who answers their door with a gun.
I don't know about where you live, but in Ohio it's NOT a crime to answer the door with a gun. In fact, I ALWAYS do it, although it's never visible.

What IS a crime is an unlawful warrantless entry and search of a home, absent exigent circumstances. LAWFUL possession of a firearm is NOT an exigent circumstance, at least not here.
I feel bad for the poor officers who are getting sucked into this mess by just doing their jobs.
Making excuses for bad behavior ALWAYS encourages MORE bad behavior. It frequently encourages ESCALATION of that bad behavior.

lizziedog1
February 13, 2011, 11:01 AM
I am currently waiting on my CCW to arrive. So for now I open carry when I take my dogs for their walks. The main concern around here are feral dogs. On several occasions I have crossed paths with LEO's. They never even batted an eye about the .38 Special on my belt. they seem to understand around here.

I also think something isn't right about this. If the OP was a police officer, I hope the grammar he used in his police reports was a little better then what he is using here.:confused:

Deanimator
February 13, 2011, 11:10 AM
I also think something isn't right about this. If the OP was a police officer, I hope the grammar he used in his police reports was a little better then what he is using here.
I'm always surprised by PROPER word choice, grammar and spelling.

From what I've seen, the language skills of LEOs are no better or worse than those of the population at large.

Sam1911
February 13, 2011, 12:05 PM
To All: Let's stop arguing about the OP's spelling and slang -- and let's not have another argument about whether you should "trust" the police.

To krupparms: I believe we've given you all the advise we can offer at the moment. The next steps are up to you, if you wish to take them. If you do file complaints, contact counsel, and pursue a legal challenge to the violations to which you were subjected -- and you want to share with us how that goes -- send me a Private Message and we can either open this thread back up or start another one.

Good Luck!

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