[Ak Guy]

What's you's guy's ideas on the bestest, baddest .380 ammo for personal defense from a short barreled semi-auto?? (Yeah, I know, "Carry something bigger"). Any ammo suggestions other than that ??

[WonderNine]

I read in a post a few days ago that the Spanish surplus is pretty hot and it's FMJ. You'll want all the penetration you can get from .380 out of a short barrel.

[clubsoda22]

My personal preference is Winchester Ranger Talon. It's Law Enforcement ammo, so a little harder to find than the others, but it propells a 95gr bullet at 1000fps out of a 3.5" barrel (walther, sig, bersa). As much energy as the Cor Bon, but with a heavier bonded bullet for better penetration. Good expansion as well as 9" of penetration.

The regular winchester personal defence ammo, while it looks the same, is not the same bullet. Winchester does not ballistically test their civillian ammunition, as compared to it's LE ammo which it tests extensively. In private ballistics tests, it is shown that it does not perform as well. The civillian ammo doesn't expand as reliably and does not have the talons. The talons aren't really a big deal and don't lead to any significantly greater incapacitation than any other hollowpoint, unless you count the off chance that one of the talons hooks the hanging aorta or a vital organ on it's journey and gives it an nice laceration. The fact that the civillian ammo is untested and reportedly not as reliable is the bigger deal.

[kimbernut]

Speer Gold Dots get my vote every time.Factory loads are good but IMHO both bullet and primer should be sealed by you, the individual whose life is on the line. Personally , I carry Gold Dot hand loads that match factory velocity.Again with every bullet and every primer sealed.

[Sean Smith]

I'd use the hottest FMJ (preferably flat point) that I could find.

[esheato]

A couple of photos comparing GS and Hydra-Shok.

Three shots into water with the accompanying data. First through third shots..from top to bottom and left to right.

I've posted these before on another thread, (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49686) but they were buried pretty deep. Anyway, I hope they're of use.

esheato...

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL60/919855/1804614/38170756.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL60/919855/1804614/38170735.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL60/919855/1804614/38170717.jpg

[cratz2]

The only 380 I've ever owned is a Jennings Bryco POS and the only non-FMJ ammo that ever allowed me to get through an entire magazine without a failure was Golden Sabers... And even at that, I probably only got through three mags without a failure TOTAL! I never carried it... just got it to see if I could improve it at all.

No idea if they expand at that velocity but for HPs, the Golden Sabers are known to feed pretty well.

[ChickenHawk]

Count me in as another Speer Gold Dot fan.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk

[Jeff OTMG]

RBCD at 1800+ fps.

[horge]

esheato,

Thank you very, very much for the hard work you obviously put into that.
I'm kind of bug-eyed at that one Rem GS BJHP that didn't expand, though.

I currently rely on both Golden Sabres and the Starfires.




horge

[kalibear45]

I like the Winchester Silvertips

[Dave R]

Best performance I get from my .380 is the 102gr. Golden Sabre.

Most accurate load in my pistol*. I did my own expansion testing in wet newspaper media. Expansion was reliable with up to 5 layers of denim over the newsprint. "Wound channels" looked to be about 75% of the 9mm Slivertips I fired for comparison. Not bad.


*Just started reloading for .380 and get tighter groups from a handload with Laser-Cast lead alloy bullets. Will try handloading the Speer Gold Dots and the 102gr Golden Sabre bullet at some point.

[akanotken]

Jeff,

How long of a bbl does it take to get to 1800 fps? I own a CZ and am considering a colt 380 as well as a keltec.

I've always assumed the velocity would be less in these?

TIA

[Kentucky Rifle]

RBCD is what is in my Colt Mustang Pocketlite. .380ACP RBCD ammo is what proved to me that it is the way to go. My little corned beef brisket taped to a water filled milk jug test. :)

Will

[alwims]

I've been testing the Extreme Shock Anti-Terrorist "Fang Face" Ammo 90 gr. 1120 fps, http://www.extremeshockusa.com/, in wet newspaper covered with 2 layers of denim from a distance of 5' in my Bersa Thunder 380 and I've got to tell you, I'm very impressed. I had the paper very

tightly bundled so penetration wasn't great, 5" but the wound channel was 2" in diam. for the full length of penetration. For comparison I wanted to see how a FMJ did in such a tight medium and it penetrated only 6". No feed problems what so ever. Wouldn't recomend shooting a lot of it in the

Bersa as it is +P+ ammo. I shot 25 rounds with no problems though.

[DigMe]

Wow, and with a name like "Extreme Shock Anti-Terrorist "Fang Face" " it can probably kill superheros and vampires too.

brad cook

[alwims]

:rolleyes: Seems like there is always one with every thread anymore.:o

[DigMe]

http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000283.html

Read the story from the instructor halfway down after you read the test stats. DocGKR knows his stuff more than anyone I've personally ever encountered...especially on the internet.

brad cook

[DigMe]

Seems like there is always one with every thread anymore.

By the way...what the heck does that sentence mean anyway?!

brad cook

[alwims]

Thats why I did my own testing, to satisfy me. I've never been one to rely on advertising nor do I rely on anything I read on any forum without first testing it myself. I just happen to like the results of my testing enough to make the first round in my mag the "Fang Face", (silly name yes, but I didn't

name it so I don't understand why you felt the need to make fun of me). I am also a firm believer in double and triple taps. I wouldn't ever carry a whole mag of any ammo that was designed to decintigrate when hitting a hard target.

[Jeff OTMG]

akenotken, checking the ballistics sheet it shows a 2.78" barrel, which I believe is a NAA .380 Guardian, but I am going to guess that it was out of a Walther PPK which has a 3.3" barrel. I believe that it may be a misprint. The reason I say this is because that was the case with the .32 ACP ballistics. I think that the shorter barrel is closer to the formerly listed 1500+ fps. You will not get nearly that velocity from a KelTec. A P32 shows substantially lower velocities than other .32 ACP's tested.

[Newton]

Extreme Terrorist Fang Face - Wasn't that one of Jackie Chan's early movies :evil:

I guess I'm the only fan of Federal's 90 grain Hydrashock. I have yet to see any test where this load performs poorly. It is generally regarded as a reliable expander even out of short barrelled pistols (i.e. at lower velocities) and has shown itself to be very effective in actual shootings, it also shows excellent penetration.

In testing this load myself I noticed the extra kick over commercial US manufactured FMJs which is very surprising for a Federal load since most of their other offerings are very weak for caliber.

Now if you want some serious power in your .380ACP, get yourself some of the surplus Spanish Santa Barbara truncated cone flat point ammo. The difference in recoil, even over the Hydrashocks, is quite something to behold, those rounds are loaded to a serious level, God bless the Europeans and their lack of "lawyer phobia". Some people think these rounds are designed to expand by virtue of the exposed lead core, but I'm convinced that it's just the way they were manufactured (they probably have an enclosed base but I haven't checked).

[tbeb]

I just saw a test done by members of another gun forum (stoppingpower.net) on Corbon 90 gr. JHP, Federal Hydra-Shok 90 gr. JHP, and Speer Gold Dot 90 gr. JHP. Each was fired from a Kel Tec P-3AT into gelatin covered with a winter coat, a flannel shirt, long underwear, and a t-shirt.

Corbon penetrated 16.5+" and exited gelatin--bullet was not found. Hydra-Shok penetrated 16.5", no expansion. Gold Dot penetrated 10.5", and expansion was .476".

I would carry any of the above or the Federal Hi-Shok 90 gr. JHP or the Winchester Silvertip 85 gr. JHP. Use whatever is 100% reliable in your pistol.

[DigMe]

silly name yes, but I didn't but I didn't name it so I don't understand why you felt the need to make fun of me

I wasn't making fun of you. That is unless your name is Extreme Shock Anti-Terrorist "Fang Face." I was making fun of the name of the ammo, which is of course quite a ridiculous name - I'm sure we can agree on that. Regarding DocGKR's tests...when I first started reading his stuff I thought he a was a bit pompous and little too matter-of-fact. When I started looking at his research and his background though (full name is Gary K. Roberts - some articles can be found at www.firearmstactical.com) I gained an enormous respect for him. No, he's not my sole source or my god of ammunition but I think he's really onto something in his premises and his basis in the scientific method. Definitely several steps above the gun rags and most other sources I come across in his application of the aforementioned. Anyway, sorry if I offended you, Alwims, I wasn't trying to make fun of you, just the name of your ammo...which you didn't come up with as far as I know.

brad cook

[alwims]

DigMe, I guess I took what you said wrong also. All that aside, I am no novice to shooting or guns, I'm just looking for a load I can feel good about my wife carrying as she has fallen in love with the .380 caliber. I know a lot of the 'experts' don't like anything but conventional ammo but I am open

minded enough to at least try different stuff. The key word here is 'try'. While my wet newspaper tests are far from sientific, I trust them as I have harvested many animals with handguns using loads I have reloaded and tested in this manner. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else, for

that matter, on this silly nammed stuff, I was just sharing my experiance with it in smaller calibers. IMO, if the first shot does nothing more than soften the path for the second or third shot then I am happy. We practise double and triple taps all the time and I have pruposely made my wife so

mad her adrinaline was really flowing and she still shoots 1" to 2'' groups at 7 yrds. If this stuff works in softer tissue as well as it does in wet newspaper then it's got a nice big hole for shot 2 or 3 to follow. Marketing if a very powerful tool and I have learned, in my 49 yrs., on this earth to

trust me and not some advertisement in some gun magazine.