.308 semi-defense configured


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Matthew Courtney
January 24, 2003, 11:29 PM
I have decided to add a .308 configured for defense to my collection. Could I have some recommendations?

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cheygriz
January 25, 2003, 12:30 AM
AR-10 would be my first choice if buying a new .308 today.

HK-91 or clone. Short, handy, accurate, reliable.

Robinson Arms VEPR.

Saiga

M1A- fairly accurate and reliable, but long and unwieldy

FN-FAL accurate, reliable, great handling, but long.

Galil - Probably the finest .308 battle rifle ever made. And good luck finding one.

Nightcrawler
January 25, 2003, 01:00 AM
DSA- Best FALs you can buy. (http://www.dsarms.com)

Armalite: AR-10s. (http://www.armalite.com)

Robinson Armament: VEPR .308. (http://www.robarm.com)

Springfield Armory. M1A (semiauto descendent of the M14) (http://www.springfield-armory.com)

twoblink
January 25, 2003, 06:35 AM
Nightcrawler summed up your major choices right there!

I have an M1A and I love it!

The FAL's are good, but I don't like the sights.

The AR10, never gave me the warm fuzzies, too many parts.

VEPR's are reliable, but a bit heavy.

Stripling Warrior
January 25, 2003, 10:26 AM
I have the AR10tnc

CQB rifle - you bet!

With a 16" barrel the balance is good and with a flat-top, optics are easy.


1/2" @ 100
5" @ 500

20 round magazines can be had for about 43 dollars each.

I'm not putting down any other MBR but I am saying that my AR10 is sweet.


:neener:


Stripling Warrior

Nightcrawler
January 25, 2003, 12:17 PM
20 round magazines can be had for about 43 dollars each.

Really? Going rate I see for them is like $89.99.

That's something to consider.


FAL Mags: Austrian, Israeli, German: $5-$12.00, depending on condition (unless you shop at Delta Force, they want sixty bucks...:rolleyes: )

M14 Mags: $35-$55.00, depending on condition.

VEPR .308 Mags: $30-$40.00, from Robinson, for 5-rounders and 10 rounders. (THis is a postban gun.) HOWEVER, if you want more than that, you can send your VEPR II (it has to be the one with US parts for this to be legal) to Kreb's Custom (http://www.krebscustom.com) and have it converted to either M14 or Galil .308 magazines for like $150.00. Galil .308 magazines have wildly varying price depending on capacity. 12/15-rd ones are like $25-30 (cheaper than VEPR 10-rounders). 20-25rd ones are $50-$80.00.

AR-10 Mags: I've seen them as high as a hundred dollars, and they've gotten to be hard to find. You can have your M14 magazines converted, so look at $35-$55 plus the cost of conversion. Why Armalite doesn't retool their AR-10s to just take M14 mags is beyond me, it wouldn't be that big of a change.

Nightcrawler
January 25, 2003, 12:20 PM
Just so you can see, here's a VEPR II .308 converted to M14 magazines, done by Krebs.

http://www.krebscustom.com/VEPRM14MAGTEXT.jpg

Dave R
January 25, 2003, 12:39 PM
You may want to add CETME to your list. They are built by Century Arms International, so may require some work to get right. But once right, you essentially have a G-3. And they are cheap enough ($300 or so) that you could do a LOT of work and still be at a reasonable price. Tapco has G3 mags for $3. So its the budget king. Do a search here for more info.

Nightcrawler
January 25, 2003, 01:03 PM
Century also builds HK91 clones. There are a lot of HK smiths out there that could probably fix an iffy Century gun, but most of them will only work on clones built on FMP receivers which, frankly, you don't see much anymore.

So I don't know. I don't see why the Century HK91 would be any worse than their CETME, but I don't know of anybody who's tried one.

But yes, G3 and CETME mags are both at an all time low in price.

Stripling Warrior
January 25, 2003, 01:26 PM
OK doubting Thomas.


M14 (.308) 20 RD MAG

$9.99


http://www.tapco.com/product_information.asp?number=MAG3703&back=yes&dept=34&last=75

From Armalite:

The practical effect of this change is relatively minor on the customer. Because we now have an M-14 type latch plate on the back of our magazines, the converted magazine will work in both the AR-10 and M-14 perfectly. It is the same outcome as sending a magazine to us for conversion in-house.

Our acceptance of the order upon receipt of a shell provides proof that the customer performed a legal conversion.

Law Enforcement and Export customers are exempt from this restriction, but the shells they receive must bear required export or police markings.


MARK A. WESTROM
President


Buy the M1A magazines for 9.99 send the shell to Armalite. Armalite sends you a newly manufactured shell (and follower) that can work in both M1A’s and AR10’s.

Cost 30.00

Total cost of a new Armalite AR10 Magazine 39.99

Shipping?

Total 43.00 (or very close to it)

Thank you and have a good day.

:neener:

Stripling Warrior

4v50 Gary
January 25, 2003, 01:32 PM
Curious but not interested in buying one, but how much does the Century G-3 clone cost?

biere
January 25, 2003, 01:33 PM
There are short versions of the m1a, run a search for bush or brush guns. There are also short fals.

I like my short m1a. I would love a short fal but lack the money to bring one home.

For the ar10 it is common to modify m14/m1a mags to work in the ar10. So keep this in mind and research it.

There are many options but I like the fal because dsa turns out an excellant product and mags are cheap.

I got my m1a because it is a classis that still works well, but I would not want a standard model. I only like the little ones.

Research any of the lower cost ones because some people get good ones and others have had to have work done on them. I prefer to not buy something with the idea it may need work, unless I get it at a silly price.

Nightcrawler
January 25, 2003, 03:45 PM
The $10.00 M14 mags are the cheap aftermarket ones. Will Armalite take those for conversion to AR-10 magazines? I thought they only took GI and Chinese magazines.

And it's around $450 for the Century G3 Clone, depending on where you look. SOG has 'em, I believe.

Gewehr98
January 25, 2003, 06:30 PM
Crap. Absolute crap. "USA Magazines", if I remember right. 2 jammed, one never even fed properly when in my M14NM. USGI and Chinese M14 magazines worked just fine. These cheapo pieces of crapola were an exercise in futility, spawned on by the rush to make 20-round "somethings" before the ban was enacted. I'm saving them to cut up and braze into a .308 Mauser's floorplate, for a 10-round bolt gun. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy in their original condition. :(

Stripling Warrior
January 25, 2003, 07:15 PM
Yes Armalite will take the 9.99 M1A magazines.


Read the post! You send in a old or cheap magazine body and they send you a newly manufactored magazine body and new follower.

43 dollars per with shipping!

:banghead:

Stripling Warrior

Kingcreek
January 25, 2003, 10:16 PM
(preban)M1A "Bush" shorty in a BM59 Alpine folding stock.
or better yet, a Beretta BM59 "Alpine"
oh wait, was cost a factor?

Kingcreek
January 25, 2003, 10:19 PM
I have decided to add a .308 configured for defense to my collection.
(preban)M1A "Bush" shorty in a BM59 Alpine folding stock.
or better yet, a Beretta BM59 "Alpine"
oh wait, was cost a factor?

Matthew Courtney
January 25, 2003, 10:52 PM
I checked out the BM59 Alpine. Looks like a quality piece. As I need neither a folding stock nor full auto capability, I will continue looking at the others. Thanks for the heads up. If my needs/wants change, I'll have a suggestion in my hip pocket.

Gewehr98
January 25, 2003, 11:13 PM
They're doing so at a definite loss. And if they're modifying them for eventual turnaround to some poor AR-10 owner later, I feel sorry for him. :(

Nightcrawler
January 25, 2003, 11:20 PM
They send you a new mag body and follower. The only part of the crappy mag you have left is the floorplate and the spring, and the spring can be replaced by one from Wolff.

It may be at a loss, but I can understand why Armalite is doing it. Why would people buy AR-10s for generall .308 semi use, and be stuck with 10+1, when they can get a FAL and have $5.00 20 round magazines? Original AR-10 mags are fast approaching $100 in cost.

If people think the mags are affordable, then more people will buy AR-10s. In the long run, I'll bet this helps Armalite.

Stripling Warrior
January 26, 2003, 12:12 AM
The turn around time on the magazine body trade is about 2 weeks (thats with the shipping time). Not bad!

There are a lot of 308 MBR's out there, the AR10 IMHO is up there with the best.



Stripling Warrior

Dobe
January 26, 2003, 04:01 PM
What's the going price for a std. AR 10?

Dobe

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