aiming a savage mk II, a few beginnrish q's

Hi all, I recently bought a Savage Mark II (my first rifle). I recently took it out for just the third time, and was shooting from 50 yards. I was sitting on a bench with both elbows on the table, and the rifle was not being held by anything but my hands (I would have liked to rest the rifle on something, but the table was pretty narrow :)).

After a few practice shots, I took my time and did my best to hit the center of the target, trying to keep in mind everything I've read about breathing and trigger control. I shot 30 rounds. About 90% of them landed in a softball sized area, above and to the left. And every single shot, without exception, was up and to the left of what I was aiming for. See my handy illustration :)

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5691/targetn.jpg

I tried to compensate by aiming slightly right and down, and I even adjusted the elevation, but my shots would still tend up and left of my intended target.

In terms of the sights, I tried to line up my target this way (the white circle would be a golf ball, which I was also aiming at).

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/995/ironsights.jpg

Is this correct? Is there one right way to do this, or does it depend on the type of sight, elevation, wind etc? Any suggestions, even if it be a suggested reading list, would be much appreciated!

Sight picture looks good but the sights may need adjusting. The rear sights needs to be moved in the direction you want the group to move...and it only will need very slight movement to move the group...I am talking thousandths of an inch.

For sitting unsupported, that's not terrible. :) Can you shoot from the prone position? If you don't have sandbags or a rest, prone is much more accurate.

I too think the sights need adjustment.

Best way to get better quicker is to go to an Appleseed event. :cool:

The range I go to has a hard dirt ground covered in rocks. I'll bring a sleeping bag next time so I can go prone. I'll do some research on the prone position as well as doing a sight adjustment.

And thanks for the Appleseed tip! There's actually an event next weekend at the range I go to (In Corona, CA), so I'll definitely try to make it out.

Looks to me like you are very nearly right on target. However your technique needs some work.

Here is a target intended for pistols but it'll do for rifles just as well.
http://shootingsafely.com/correction.jpg

The reason I am blaming technique over rifle is that I noticed as your hits get nearer the center they get denser. This indicates to me you are making a very similar error multiple times to varying degrees.

Now I do see your hits get the most dense about 1/3rd of the radius away from the bulls eye so the sight may be off a little but probably not tons. When I have the same up and left error (right handed) I find that I just need to slow down, getting amped up over a new gun can understandably cause you to over-anticipate the non-existent recoil of the .22lr.

Sounds like he just needs to zero the rifle. (For future reference, also be aware that different types of ammo will shoot to a different POI - which will mean the sights will need to be adjusted again.)

1: Adjust your sights to move the point of impact down and right about 1" each.

2: Check the action screws, which attach the action to the stock. My MKII came with the action screws loose, resulting in similar accuracy issues. They should be good and tight.

3: Practice. As much as you can. The MKII should shoot 1/2" at 50 meters without difficulty.

You can make sandbags from old shirt sleeves, old trouser legs or the plastic zippered bank bags. A short piece of 4x4 under the front bag can be helpful. Using sandbags will let you test the rifle/ammo combination and let you take yourself out of the equation.

Some of my sandbags are fairly full and tight; a couple are about half-full and have some "give" to them. I can squeeze a bag just a little bit to get that final best alignment of the sights.

I'd strongly recommend hitting that Appleseed! :)

First - good shooting. You have a very recognizable group, and making that group hit the center of the target will take only a bit of correction on your part.

In complete agreement with the others, an Appleseed might help you. As bigalexe posted (the chart above), your group is up and to the left because of either "pushing" or "failure to follow through."

What you will learn at Appleseed, or from similar marksmanship instruction is that these possible errors are easily correctable. Here's how you would do it:

Error - "Pushing"
- Make sure to establish a "Natural Point of Aim" that you hold without muscling the rifle on target. You should be completely relaxed as you take the shot. If you are on target, close your eyes, breathe in an out, and then open your eyes - you will be aiming at the same point.
Practice the aiming, then closing the eyes, then breathing, then opening your eyes until you are back on target consistently when you open your eyes.

Error - "Failure to follow through"
- This is a common mistake, and is easy to correct. When squeezing the trigger (one smooth motion), continue to squeeze after the shot, holding the trigger to the rear until after recoil, and your sights are back on target.

Now, if you make these corrections, and you then have a little group that is high and to the left of the bullseye, then it might be time to do a sight adjustment:
You mentioned you were shooting at 50 yards. If you shoot at 50 yards next time with elbows on the table as you described, and your group (all or almost all shots) is a 3" circle or smaller, and off target, then make the sight adjustments.

I have a MK II and I find that when shooting at 50 yards it usually hits high. The sights on mine are sighted for 75 yards I believe. They are adjustable but I just adjust my sight picture for 50 yard shots or 100 yard shots. Enjoy the rifle, its great and will allow you to improve your marksmanship for little money.

-Alex

Thanks for all the great advice everyone. I have tons to learn still, so I'm sure my technique is mostly to blame for the "high-and-rightness". Still, it would be nice to have a pro take a few shots and see if he noticed the same thing.. maybe I'll ask someone next time I'm at the range.

In terms of adjusting the sights, the Mark II can adjust for elevation, but there doesn't appear to be an easy way of adjusting the sights horizontally.

So here's something you guys might find interesting. I was thinking about how I might determine how accurately the sights are lining up.

So I drew a tiny red circle (about 1 cm diameter) on a piece of paper, and taped it to my wall. I took the bolt out my rifle, and situated the rifle on my bed, so that that when I looked through the barrel, the red dot was exactly in the center (end of barrel is about 5 ft from wall). I also took out the little elevation adjustment ramp. This is what the target looks like through the sights:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/78/sights2.jpg

What do you make of that? Looking back, I probably adjusted the elevation in the wrong direction :D, but it does seem that the horizontal alignment is a little off

Bore sighting is the name for what you did.

Remember to move the rear sight in the direction you want the impact to move.
Up = Up
Down = down
Left = Left
Right = Right.

Pistol chart will not be the same as rifle.

Cheek Weld, Postion, Trigger & Sight Alignment are the big 4. Initially if you are grouping or at least stringing consistently you are doing well. Try to do everything the same for each shot. (easier said). Also make sure you are focusing on the front sight when breaking the shot.

Shooting irons first is good.