.25 ACP test, and apology


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fishing
February 13, 2011, 04:05 PM
So I took my new Taurus PT .25 through its paces and am pleasantly surprised. Accuracy was very good out of such a small pistol. With the winchester 50 grain FMJ rounds, I was consistently penetrating one of those pressure treated 2X4's (albeit the 2" side), even when I was aiming for the knot in the wood. Granted the bullet was lying on the ground behind the wood, but this is more penetration than I expected.



Now I'm not advocating the taurus as a carry gun, but will suffice as a BUG if one is in dire circumstances and it was the only thing available, especially considering its accuracy.

Many .45 fans (an I'm one) would consider the .25 as useless, or would make a ridiculous statement critical of the small caliber with no basis in fact or first hand experience.

-" A thrown fastball from a major league pitcher has more energy"
It's true-about 35 fpe more than the winchester load, but what they neglect to tell you is that an average 60 pound draw weight compound bow (roughly the same KE as the .25), which can be used to harvest deer and bear, also has less ME than the fastball, go figure.

Other inane statements are mostly based on biases and bravado, are are half-truths. Anyways, cheers.

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mopar92
February 13, 2011, 06:49 PM
I pocket carried my .25 a lot when a bigger pistol was not ideal... Wouldn't trust my life with it, but it's better than a knife!!

george d dennis
February 13, 2011, 08:14 PM
thanks for the report

cheygriz
February 13, 2011, 08:17 PM
During my L.E. career, I carried a Beretta 950 .25 ACP as a deep cover B.U.G. every day. So did half the officers in my dept.

(although a lot of the younger "macho" 45 types wouldn't openly admit it.)

mopar92
February 13, 2011, 08:26 PM
Yep, that 950... Excellent!

makarovnik
February 13, 2011, 08:27 PM
I have seen similar results in my testing. If we could come up with a .25acp +P and a high capacity (15+ rounds) pistol, I think it would be cool.

All my .25acp's are really accurate, go figure.

BeerSleeper
February 13, 2011, 08:30 PM
I shot my mother-in-law's PT-25, and couldn't get a group worth a hoot. When my wife asked if a gun like that one would be a good one for her, I did a little homework, and found some surprising info. A taurus PT-22 appears to be the same gun, chambered for .22LR. Ballistic data for .22LR shows higher velocity, and greater KE than for .25 ACP, and .25ACP is crazy expensive. Given that info, what could be one reason one would choose the PT-25 over the PT-22?
I can think of only one, that being the more reliable cartridge ignition of centerfire vs. rimfire (pretty important for a BUG), but other than that...?

cheygriz
February 13, 2011, 08:34 PM
.25 ammo is tested in a 2 inch barrel.
.22 is tested in at least a 6 inch barrel.
no comparison at all.

.22 LR is rimfire. 25 is centerfire. Centerfire is far more reliable than rimfire.

makarovnik
February 13, 2011, 08:47 PM
Generally speaking... Given the same sized tiny pistols, the .25acp is more reliable and has better penetration. Is it worth the extra money for the better ignition system? For self defense yes, for all other reasons, no.

Again, all my .25's are accurate and reliable. I can't say that about all my .22 pistols.

One exception to this rule might be the Phoenix Arms HP-22. The .22LR version is very reliable up to a few hundred rounds. After that these pistols start acting up and I don't like them. The .25acp Raven is a superior weapon in every way except capacity.

gbelleh
February 13, 2011, 08:47 PM
I love my .25s. I have a Beretta 950, Astra Cub, and a Lignose Einhand 3A. They're all great, fun shooters. But, are somewhat impractical when there is a Kel-Tec P3AT and Rohrbaugh R9S in the rotation to serve as a BUG if needed. But, if it were all I had, I wouldn't hesitate to carry the Beretta 950 or the Astra. They've proven reliable, accurate, and better than a sharp stick.

bglz42
February 13, 2011, 08:48 PM
My PT22 has never jammed. Ever.

BeerSleeper
February 13, 2011, 10:50 PM
.25 ammo is tested in a 2 inch barrel.
.22 is tested in at least a 6 inch barrel.
no comparison at all.

.25 auto, winchester super-x, velocity and energy, @ muzzle: 815 fps, 66 ft lbs
.22LR CCI stingers, 1640 fps, 191 ft-lbs.
4 inches of test barrel will make a difference, but not 200% difference.

I do agree with you about the reliability of centerfire ignition, though. I haven't shot enough premium rimfire like the CCI stingers to have an opinion on it's reliability, but I would expect it's still not as good as centerfire.

Geckgo
February 13, 2011, 11:14 PM
Have to agree with Beer Sleeper. I came across a test of velociters in a 4" barrel a couple of days ago. In a rifle barrel they boast 1400+fps with a 40 gr bullet. Out of the 4" barrel, they were still over 1000fps (I think 1060 was the reported number but not 100% sure)

According to wiki (not the best source I know) they are saying a 35gr at 1100 and another at 900.

So, the 40gr velociter from a 4" barrel is right at 100 fpe.
The 25acp stats from wiki are showing 94fpe and 63fpe respectively.

The smaller, heavier .22LR is going to penetrate deeper, all other things considered equal, but even the 25 is showing about 11 inches on my chart for ball ammo, the velociters are showing 19 for ball ammo (10" with 2x expansion). My equation isn't perfect and it wasn't inteded for tiny bullets, but it is showing enough promise that the comparison for similar rounds can be trusted for comparison purposes, and usually matches what I see on balistics tests very closely.

so, picking between the two?? I wouldn't. Centerfire is more trustworthy, typically, but I've not yet ever had a misfire with CCI ammo in my 10/22 of any kind. That's only been a couple of hundred rounds because of the price, but it's still cheaper than .25acp ammo, at .25-.60 cents per round (FMJ vs HP). IMHO though, calling the .25acp a good round for a BUG is in fact calling a .22LR with good ammo a good BUG. YMMV

dogtown tom
February 13, 2011, 11:22 PM
BeerSleeper Quote:
Originally Posted by cheygriz
.25 ammo is tested in a 2 inch barrel.
.22 is tested in at least a 6 inch barrel.
no comparison at all.
.25 auto, winchester super-x, velocity and energy, @ muzzle: 815 fps, 66 ft lbs
.22LR CCI stingers, 1640 fps, 191 ft-lbs.
4 inches of test barrel will make a difference, but not 200% difference.
Those CCI figures are from RIFLE length barrels.......not handgun.

wally
February 13, 2011, 11:48 PM
I carried a Beretta 950 "Jetfire" when I couldn't carry a gun, until the Kel-Tec P32 came out, which was replaced by the Kel-Tec P3AT which was replaced by the LCP, which was replaced by the Bodyguard 380.

Rule 1, have a gun, as said a .25 is better than a knife or pointy stick. There are much better options these days than a .25 in the same size/weight class.

Clark
February 14, 2011, 05:57 PM
Some may remember the late Flim Flam from the rec.guns forum in the 1990s.

A customer in his pawn shop in Crystal Springs FL impaled impaled him with a Samuri sword, and then Flim Flam shot and killed the customer with a 25acp.

I sold Flim Flam a 12 ga shot gun. None of his posts ever indicated he used a wimpy 25acp. Then the incident happened, and even those who engaged in flame wars with him became concerned. He sold the pawn shop.

SharpsDressedMan
February 14, 2011, 07:07 PM
I remember it. He had loaded guns stashed all over the pawn shop, but couldn't get to them during the defensive retreat from the attacker. After being stabbed twice,and fruther retreating behind an inner door, he remembered the little .25 in his pocket, almost forgotten because it was a "backup". He drew and emptied the gun into the attacker's head as he crashed through the last door separating them.

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