CCH Denial for former substance abuse?


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dcdub
February 14, 2011, 06:07 PM
A friend of mine I took the CC class with a couple weeks ago got a call from his doctor today informing him that he received a letter from the sheriff's office requesting his medical information. He has been clean for over 3 years now, but has been in rehab twice and is on medication for depression and anxiety. He's never been arrested for anything, I believe he checked himself in willingly both times. I'm thinking his application will probably be denied, but I also have a hard time imagining that North Carolina has never issued a CCH permit to anyone suffering from depression considering that would consist of 1/2 of the population. What do you guys think? Does he have any chance in heck?

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jonnyc
February 14, 2011, 06:12 PM
Under the circumstances you describe, if I was the doctor, I would feel obligated to black-ball the application.

hnk45acp
February 14, 2011, 06:16 PM
what state?

dcdub
February 14, 2011, 06:18 PM
I don't know him extremely well, but he seems more level headed than a few other people I know who carry. I personally do not feel he is a threat. He asked the doc to make it clear that he hasn't had an issue an 3 years, I wonder if that will help his case.
Also I forgot to mention that he has been issued purchase permits

dcdub
February 14, 2011, 06:19 PM
North Carolina

MtnCreek
February 14, 2011, 07:01 PM
Unless he was ordered by a court to submit to substance abuse treatment, I would assume the State has no right to deney based on voluntary rehab. Did he sign a concent form for the release of his medical records?

Carter
February 14, 2011, 07:39 PM
You guys had to release medical records? I didnt have to do that for my NC CC permit, and our sheriff is one anti-gun official.

If he could find a reason for denial he'd refuse you in a heartbeat, no matter how frivolous.

Seems odd that'd he call your doctor..

scrood?
February 14, 2011, 08:01 PM
nc is a shall issue.

WoofersInc
February 14, 2011, 08:52 PM
Did he sign a concent form for the release of his medical records?

I would be looking into this. There is Federal law called HIPPA which prohibits the release of medical records without signed consent.

I would also look into if the state has something written into their CCW laws that allows the issuing agency to request this type of info.

NavyLCDR
February 14, 2011, 09:29 PM
Under the circumstances you describe, if I was the doctor, I would feel obligated to black-ball the application.

Don't care too much for the 2nd Amendment, eh?!?

dirtykid
February 14, 2011, 10:17 PM
North carolina = SHALL ISSUE ,,meaning it's up to the law to decide who's a cowboy an who's an injun,,But yea,,,, if he actually had to seek treatment for it i would probaly want to look a little closer at his CURRENT state of mind,, something only he knows for sure,,

scrood?
February 14, 2011, 10:29 PM
You're confusing shall issue with may issue. May issue is what you are describing.

dcdub
February 14, 2011, 10:33 PM
Yeah we had to sign a release form, provide our healthcare provider's information, and have it notarized. Nothing of the sort for a purchase permit though. We're in union county and our sheriff is actually very pro-gun. If you google union county sheriffs office you can view the permit, including the release form, if you're interested.

DenaliPark
February 14, 2011, 10:52 PM
A friend of mine I took the CC class with a couple weeks ago got a call from his doctor today informing him that he received a letter from the sheriff's office requesting his medical information. He has been clean for over 3 years now, but has been in rehab twice and is on medication for depression and anxiety. He's never been arrested for anything, I believe he checked himself in willingly both times.

Why are they harvesting his medical records in the first place?

scrood?
February 14, 2011, 10:53 PM
The real question is, how did they know to go look at them?

DenaliPark
February 14, 2011, 11:04 PM
Under the circumstances you describe, if I was the doctor, I would feel obligated to black-ball the application.
Why? Do you have an idea as to how many sworn LEO's have been through chemical dependency treatment, or are treated for anxiety & depression? Believe me, a hell of a lot of good men & women.

Honestly, I find this to be a dispicable back door effort by the state & its minions to implement gun control, its why under no circumstance should the state be allowed access to a citizens medical files, not without a powerful, and compelling reason.

Voluntary addiction therapy, and treatment for garden variety anxiety & depression not being among them!

dcdub
February 14, 2011, 11:11 PM
Yeah if he gets denied I'll be upset. At least he got himself some help unlike, I dunno, Jared Loughner or someone like that

jonnyc
February 15, 2011, 03:39 PM
"Don't care too much for the 2nd Amendment, eh?!?"

Pretty foolish comment.
The doctor's concern is to the patient and the repercussions of both of their actions, not to the legal niceties of the 2nd Amendment. Neither the First nor Second Amendment is an absolute right, and I have no qualms about restricting the gun rights of a person who has recently undergone multiple drug treatments and is currently under treatment for depression. Sorry if that offends your "cold, dead fingers" sentiments, but that's my 1st Amendment right.

crew
February 15, 2011, 04:52 PM
I would be looking into this. There is Federal law called HIPPA which prohibits the release of medical records without signed consent.

I would also look into if the state has something written into their CCW laws that allows the issuing agency to request this type of info.
As part of the application process,
the applicant must accomplish the following:
1. Complete an application, under oath, on a form provided by the sheriff's office;
2. Pay a non-refundable fee of $80.00; and
3. Allow the sheriff’s office to take two (2) full sets of fingerprints, which may
cost up to $10.00;
4. Provide an original certificate of completion of an approved handgun safety
course; and
[B]]5. Provide a release authorizing disclosure to the sheriff of any record concerning
the applicant’s mental health or capacity. N.C. Gen. Stat. 14-415.13[/[/U]B]

W.E.G.
February 15, 2011, 05:17 PM
14‑415.12. Criteria to qualify for the issuance of a permit.

(a) The sheriff shall issue a permit to an applicant if the applicant qualifies under the following criteria:

...(3) The applicant does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun.


(b) The sheriff shall deny a permit to an applicant who:

...(6) Is currently, or has been previously adjudicated by a court or administratively determined by a governmental agency whose decisions are subject to judicial review to be, lacking mental capacity or mentally ill. Receipt of previous consultative services or outpatient treatment alone shall not disqualify an applicant under this subdivision.

.
.
.


14-415.15 Issuance or denial of permit

...(c) A person's application for a permit shall be denied only if the applicant fails to qualify under the criteria listed in this Article. If the sheriff denies the application for a permit, the sheriff shall, within 90 days, notify the applicant in writing, stating the grounds for denial. An applicant may appeal the denial, revocation, or nonrenewal of a permit by petitioning a district court judge of the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal. The determination by the court shall be final.

dcdub
February 15, 2011, 06:17 PM
He's never been adjudicated mentally ill and to me depression/anxiety doesn't constitute as a mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a firearm. Manic depression is another thing, but your run of the mill take some cymbalta and your good to go depression shouldn't disqualify a person

crew
February 15, 2011, 07:12 PM
He's never been adjudicated mentally ill and to me depression/anxiety doesn't constitute as a mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a firearm. Manic depression is another thing, but your run of the mill take some cymbalta and your good to go depression shouldn't disqualify a person
THE LINKS BETWEEN DEPRESSION AND SUICIDE
Major depression is the psychiatric diagnosis most commonly associated with suicide. Lifetime risk of suicide
among patients with untreated depressive disorder is nearly 20% (Gotlib & Hammen, 2002). The suicide risk
among treated patients is 141/100,000 (Isacsson et al, 2000).
About 2/3 of people who complete suicide are depressed at the time of their deaths.
About 7 out of every hundred men and 1 out of every hundred women who have been diagnosed with
depression in their lifetime will go on to complete suicide.
The risk of suicide in people with major depression is about 20 times that of the general population.
Individuals who have had multiple episodes of depression are at greater risk for suicide than those who have
had one episode.

NavyLCDR
February 15, 2011, 07:18 PM
^^^^^ if someone is going to commit suicide, they are going to commit suicide. Possessing a gun has no bearing on that.

Titan85
February 15, 2011, 07:31 PM
^^^^^ if someone is going to commit suicide, they are going to commit suicide. Possessing a gun has no bearing on that.That is 100% true. If you take their gun, what stops them from using a knife, pills, jumping, etc...nothing. The thought that removing their gun will make any difference is simply idiotic.

clutch
February 15, 2011, 07:58 PM
Years ago I worried about having guns too close to me in fear that I might kill myself when depressed.

Then my father in law committed suicide when his family didn't understand he was in crises or didn't care. +1 to the second thought. He had a brain tumor removed behind his eyes and the dilantin my not have been working that night.

I saw the devastation it caused, primarily with my now ex-wife. She had missed her normal call to dad once a week and would have spotted he was in trouble and even if we do live 250 miles away, we would have been there in three hours or less.

Fast forward a few years, wife went up and down, decided she wanted something else, left me on a cross state bicycle tour. Driving home after the tour after the bus brought me back to the starting point was the hardest thing I ever did. I kept thinking, one little drift left or right and my pain would be over.

Suicide is typically a selfish act. Anyone that has experienced the effects as one that cares for the one that killed them self will never consider it for them self after the experience.

Today, I worry about my blood pressure, I have hypertension, I want to live as long as possible. That gun next to me is a way to stay living if something bad happens.

I've left quite a few things out, this is a public forum, and life is more bizarre than fiction.

The guy trying to get his CHL, I'd take a chance on him. Being willing to ask for help versus toughing it out like most of us that have had to is a +1 on his responsibility. He sounds like a good guy to me.

Clutch

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