Shipping a firearm


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Gergify
February 15, 2011, 06:07 PM
So I'm making my first sale on gunbroker and I want to make sure I'm properly shipping this firearm; as I've never shipped something like this anymore

1. I need obtain a copy of the FFL to where it's being shipped to (via fax or mail).
2. Properly package the firearm. Being unloaded of course; NOT marking anywhere on the box that it's a firearm

Now here is where I'm trouble finding grounded info on:

Can I print the label online (for either USPS or UPS) and simply go the store/post office and drop it off; or do I have to notify them that it's a firearm (Because I can imagine they will flip)?

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oneounceload
February 15, 2011, 06:13 PM
Are you shipping a handgun or long gun?

If a long gun, you can use USPS. If it is a handgun, unless you are a FFL, you need to use a FFL to ship

I have recently shipped several long guns - one by USPS, the rest by Fedex 3-day business - I like the efficiency of Fedex

NavyLCDR
February 15, 2011, 06:23 PM
If it is a handgun, unless you are a FFL, you need to use a FFL to ship

False statement.

jimmyraythomason
February 15, 2011, 06:27 PM
False statement. As a stand alone statement yes. Taken in context with the previous sentence it is trueIf a long gun, you can use USPS. If it is a handgun, unless you are a FFL, you need to use a FFL to ship. To ship a handgun USPS requires an FFL.

NavyLCDR
February 15, 2011, 06:28 PM
Can I print the label online (for either USPS or UPS) and simply go the store/post office and drop it off; or do I have to notify them that it's a firearm (Because I can imagine they will flip)?

1. Rifle - you can mail it to an FFL using USPS. You are not required by law to inform the USPS that you are mailing a rifle.

2. Handgun or rifle - you can ship to an FFL using FEDEX or UPS. You are not required by law to inform them of the shipment of a firearm to an FFL. FEDEX or UPS company policy, not law, requires that you inform them of the shipment of a firearm. Handguns, again by company policy, are required to be shipped by overnight air.

3. You CAN, but not required by law, take a handgun or a rifle to an FFL, and they can mail either one by USPS to another FFL.

NavyLCDR
February 15, 2011, 06:29 PM
As a stand alone statement yes. Taken in context with the previous sentence it is true

Respectfully, you don't ship things via the post office. You mail things via the post office.

jimmyraythomason
February 15, 2011, 06:33 PM
Respectfully, you don't ship things via the post office. You mail things via the post office. Agreed,however that is just semantics. "Mailing" or "shipping" is the same thing in reality,the difference being by whom it is done. I do get your point though.

NavyLCDR
February 15, 2011, 06:36 PM
Agreed,however that is just semantics. "Mailing" or "shipping" is the same thing in reality,the difference being by whom it is done. I do get your point though.

Now if I asked you to mail me a bunch of clips for my gun, and instead you shipped to me a box of magazines via UPS.... :evil:

jimmyraythomason
February 15, 2011, 06:38 PM
Now cut that out!!!!!!!! :=)

nalioth
February 15, 2011, 07:33 PM
If your business is with someone who resides in the same state as you, no FFL is required at either end under federal law (your state and local laws may say differently).

You'll still need to follow the U.S. Mail's regulations on shipping handguns (if you are shipping one).

Under federal law, you can have a firearm delivered directly to a same-state resident.

karlsgunbunker
February 16, 2011, 12:02 AM
Can I print the label online (for either USPS or UPS) and simply go the store/post office and drop it off

Yes, with the restrictions listed. (No handguns by USPS w/o FFL)

do I have to notify them that it's a firearm

No. You have no legal obligation to do so.

Frank Ettin
February 16, 2011, 12:47 AM
One caveat: some FFLs will not accept a firearm for transfer from a private citizen. It would be legal to do so, but some FFLs apparently have their own business reasons for not doing so. So you should make sure that the buyer has confirmed that the FFL he is using for the transfer will accept the gun from you. If he will, he will probably still want a copy of your driver's license.

Gergify
February 16, 2011, 02:25 AM
Sorry..... MAIL through the USPS...

So if a SHIP through UPS, their policy requires me to notify the carrier there is a firearm? I have a feeling that will cause problems...

nygunbroker
February 16, 2011, 02:35 AM
All out of state transfers must be FFL To FFL with Ncis Check on receiving end before transfer of firearm.
online gunbroker

Frank Ettin
February 16, 2011, 02:49 AM
All out of state transfers must be FFL To FFL with Ncis Check on receiving end before transfer of firearm....Do you have a citation for that?

[1] Under federal law, any transfer of a firearm from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be done by an FFL, with all the usual formalities (4473, NICS, etc.). In the case of a long gun, it could be any FFL as long as the transfer complies with the laws of both the State in which the transfer is effected and the State in which the transferee resides, and as long as the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence. In the case of a handgun, the transfer must be done by an FFL in the transferee's State of residence.

[2] Nothing in federal law prohibits an interstate transfer by the transferor who is not a licensee sending the gun to an FFL in the transferee's State of residence so that the FFL can effect the transfer. But some FFLs, for business reasons, will not accept a gun for transfer from a non-licensee.

nalioth
February 16, 2011, 03:37 AM
All out of state transfers must be FFL To FFLMaybe for subjects of New Yawk.

Not so in the free states.

Can we please stop perpetrating this myth?

NavyLCDR
February 16, 2011, 11:13 AM
Maybe for subjects of New Yawk.

Not even in the People's Republik of NY is it required.

Can we please stop perpetrating this myth?

I agree 100%. Of course, there are some FFL's out there that aren't helping....It would be nice if those that don't accept private shipments would stress that it is only by company policy...

hirundo82
February 16, 2011, 11:16 AM
Can we please stop perpetrating this myth?

Some FFLs seem to be the worst in spreading this myth--makes sense since they make money off of people believing it.

chiggerbyt
February 16, 2011, 02:31 PM
Respectfully,
How can I "mail" it when usps wants a "shipping" label? Seems they use both terms at USPS. Mail for "mail" and "shipping" for packages perhaps. Check out usps.com for further info. :?)) chig

dogtown tom
February 16, 2011, 06:57 PM
chiggerbyt Respectfully,
How can I "mail" it when usps wants a "shipping" label? Seems they use both terms at USPS. Mail for "mail" and "shipping" for packages perhaps. Check out usps.com for further info. :?)) chig
USPS.com calls it "Click-N-Ship"

Big_Dogg
February 16, 2011, 07:44 PM
2. Handgun or rifle - you can ship to an FFL using FEDEX or UPS. You are not required by law to inform them of the shipment of a firearm to an FFL. FEDEX or UPS company policy, not law, requires that you inform them of the shipment of a firearm. Handguns, again by company policy, are required to be shipped by overnight air.

This is another good thing that you've pointed out. A lot of people are under the misconception that it is required by law to ship a handgun overnight air when you use UPS. It is not the law or necessary to ship overnight. (Nor is it cost effective)

Frank Ettin
February 16, 2011, 10:23 PM
...It is not the law or necessary to ship overnight. (Nor is it cost effective) No, but it is UPS/FedEx policy, as it is UPS/FedEx policy to require the shipper verbally inform the clerk that the package contains a firearm. A possible consequence of not following the carrier's policy is that if the gun is lost or damage, they could get out of paying off on an insurance claim.

karlsgunbunker
February 17, 2011, 01:37 AM
No, but it is UPS/FedEx policy, as it is UPS/FedEx policy to require the shipper verbally inform the clerk that the package contains a firearm. A possible consequence of not following the carrier's policy is that if the gun is lost or damage, they could get out of paying off on an insurance claim.

+1 That's how they get ya!

Art Eatman
February 17, 2011, 01:50 PM
THE UPS reason for overnight air instead of ground for handguns was that there had been too many internal thefts by employees--creating hassle and insurance claims, etc.

Big_Dogg
February 17, 2011, 03:02 PM
THE UPS reason for overnight air instead of ground for handguns was that there had been too many internal thefts by employees--creating hassle and insurance claims, etc.

That may be what they say, but for that to be true, you'd have to have about a dozen employees in on it helping you to get it out of there.

I worked at UPS a decade ago, and that place was locked down better than most army bases. Multiple very high barb wired fences surrounding the entire facility, with cameras everywhere. Multiple metal detectors that needed to be passed through to enter and exit, and multiple guards that had to be passed by/pat search you. Etc. Not to mention that even back then their tracking system & employee managment system was so advanced that if a gun disappeared, you would be able to tell exactly which employee took it, and what time he took it down to a couple of minutes.

And that was just over a decade ago, I can only imagine that they've beefed up security since then.

Plus, how would an employee know a handgun was in a box? Would he somehow open every box in the truck until he found a gun? He'd get caught after opening just a couple boxes, and be hand delivered by security to the police.

hermannr
February 17, 2011, 05:20 PM
I have a question: Who's law/regulation is it that you cannot ship a handgun USPS unless you have an FFL? Can you give me page/paragraph?

I know there are many insane regulations out there, but I ship Priorty Mail all the time...there is no statement that I have to agree to that says I will not ship a firearm via Priority Mail (though there is one that says I agree to not shipping Cigarettes or smokeless tobacco products)

CoRoMo
February 17, 2011, 05:26 PM
...I ship Priorty Mail all the time...there is no statement that I have to agree to that says I will not ship a firearm via Priority Mail...
Are you saying that you've mailed handguns through the post office before?

Here's the Postal Regs... http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1198527
12.1.3 Authorized Persons
...handguns may be mailed by a ... licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government...
Also...
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...-firearms-usps

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

nalioth
February 17, 2011, 05:27 PM
I have a question: Who's law/regulation is it that you cannot ship a handgun USPS unless you have an FFL? Can you give me page/paragraph?

Lots of good info here, including links to the laws, regs and shipper's policies: Shipping a gun - who, how, where, when and why (http://forum.novarata.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=896), but to answer your question, you'll probably want http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.pdf

hermannr
February 17, 2011, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the link.

No I have not shipped a handgun before, I just ship a lot of other stuff and never saw the reg. That, looked it up and read the whole thing...interesting, a member of the armed forces is not exempt, but an officer is...but then only if the weapon is signed for by his CO. What a bunch of BS, they want you to go out and put your life on the line (did so myself in Vietnam) but I cannot be trusted to ship a handgun through the mail.

And the US mail wonders why they are losing money. Heck, no wonder they can't compete with regs like that.

karlsgunbunker
February 18, 2011, 01:40 AM
I have a question: Who's law/regulation is it that you cannot ship a handgun USPS unless you have an FFL? Can you give me page/paragraph?

I know there are many insane regulations out there, but I ship Priorty Mail all the time...there is no statement that I have to agree to that says I will not ship a firearm via Priority Mail (though there is one that says I agree to not shipping Cigarettes or smokeless tobacco products)

GCA of 1968 made it illegal to mail Handguns and Ammo, created the FFL, And C&R FFL.
Also required an ID and signature to buy ammo (only us old guys remember that).

It's all "Black Letter" federal law.

hermannr
February 18, 2011, 01:02 PM
Missed the black letter part, I was in Vietnam in 68 and 69, Germany in 70-74.

Probably broke I lot of laws I never knew existed back then. Maybe not, as all my shooting was with military weapons and military ammo and I was out of country.

brickeyee
February 18, 2011, 04:28 PM
The shippers require notification to comply with CFR.

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart C_Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

Sec. 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.


(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other
container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph
shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger
who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the
trip.

They ARE REQUIRED to get a signature when delivering a firearm.

If they do not know the package contains a firearm they do not know of the signature is required, thus the requirement no notify them NO MATTER WHO THE PACKAGE IS GOING TO.

Shadow 7D
February 18, 2011, 04:29 PM
UHH
do you guys realize that there are 2 or 3 stickies on this subject?????

NavyLCDR
February 18, 2011, 05:41 PM
UHH
do you guys realize that there are 2 or 3 stickies on this subject?????

We didn't meet our quota of one shipping thread per week. Along with:

Carry with one in the chamber or not...
Leave magazines loaded or not due to the springs...

and

Transferring a gun to my brother-in-law's second cousin by marriage three states over, who had a felony expunged when he was 17 and checked himself into a mental hospital for two weeks last year.

Shadow 7D
February 18, 2011, 05:46 PM
Oh I C

sorry, will have to start one about getting a hand gun or machine gun to my nutjob second cousin in Chicago who's an illegal immigrant and on the terrorist watch list.....

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