Police checking for modifications on a gun after accidental shooting?

This happened in the town of Cocoa a few miles from where I live http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011102150326 has anyone ever heard of the police checking the trigger for modifications after an accidental shooting? For the record I think the retard should go to jail for being an idiot.

don't know about police, but it is a common gambit in a court case...

Any firearm involved in a death is routinely examined by a forensic firearms examiner. If the weapon was modified to have a light trigger-pull, that could well impact on the culpability of the shooter.

Also, if the weapon malfunctioned and fired accidentally, that could exculpate the shooter, or at least mitigate the degree of culpability.

I read the newspaper link and the attached responses. It was distressing to keep hearing respondents referreing to 'accidents'. This was not an accident. It was a negligent discharge.

The condition of the trigger(if there were unsafe modification) does not absolve one of observing the other tenents of safe gun handling.

First of all, it is a horrible tragedy and my thoughts and prayers go out to those families affected.

They are "checking the trigger pull" to see if there is any "negligence" in this case. Wow, that is really interesting. Would they seriously bump this up because of trigger modifications?

I guess I'm up the creek without a paddle on everything I own. I think this is an isolated incident. I won't be running out and returning all of my triggers to stock because I fear future escalation of charges in the event I ever use anything in self defense.

It is negligent without regard to the trigger. It is negligent because of the gun mishandling by the shooter. Were he observing the fundimental rules of safe gun handling it would not have discharged and had it done so in the case of an extremely rare "accident' it would not have hurt anyone.

"keep the gun pointed in a safe direction"

"do not put your finger on the trigger until ready to fire"

Well, about half my guns have modified triggers, but the ones that I rely on for self defense don't. Mainly because I want to be absolutely sure they will go bang when I need them, and in general I trust a factory trigger to be more reliable.

Whatever you do to a gun keep the records and make sure is compliant with the law or they can screw you real bad.
Cheers,
E.

What kind of moron shows his gun off when its completely loaded? I empty the chamber and release the mag when I show it to someone. Its only loaded when its on my hip (We cant CCW in WI)

My thoughts and prayers with the family who lost a young one because of a <deleted> who shouldnt have a firearm in the first place

It doesn't matter about the trigger; what was the idiot's finger doing on it?

It doesn't matter about the trigger; what was the idiot's finger doing on it?

ding ding!! And WHY was the gun pointed at the door? I have had folks over to and even shown off my a couple firearms when there were a lot of folks in the house. Always go to a secluded spot in the home, clear any weapon before showing, and at all times do NOT point it at a spot in the home where your other guests are. That weapon should not have been unholstered and pointed in the direction of guests in the home. Any idiot out there is not going to expect a door or wall to stop the round.

I am sure this guy is already beating himself up and he should. This is a senseless tragedy that should not have happened no matter what mods were done to the weapon.

I have interviewed or been present at many shooting scenes involving every type of individual and it's very common (even for the good guys) to try to lay off the responsibility for the act by claiming the discharge was accidental or the gun "just went off". There's probably some heavy psych stuff involved but many just can't accept that a bad outcome was their responsibility or that their own actions were the cause of all that resulted. The first thing any legal defense will try to do is claim that some mechanical malfuntion contributed to the outcome - anything to reduce their client's responsibilty. That's why the forensic exam of any firearm involved in a shooting is standard procedure. Glad I'm out of that world entirely now for some years...

Glad I'm out of that world entirely now for some years...

Do not blame you. I served on a single first degree murder trial jury and I have absolutely no desire to ever be anywhere near that world again if I can help it.

+1 negligent. why do all the reporters and laymen out there think that guns will just "go off" by themselves? does a car that swerves wildy and runs over a pedestrian just "go off" the road?

The first rule of carrying a firearm is "nobody should know you have one".
You do not show any guns to your buddies at any parties. That's irresponsible.
I am pretty sure sure the burden of having killed another human being by mistake and by being an irresponsible SOB is punishment enough that will hunt him for the rest of his life. (assuming he is a normal person)

Where the hell does "accidental" - or any liability for the manufacturer - come into play on this ? ??? It was a "negligent discharge", by a careless handler cum idiot ! I'd opine alcohol was involved........

Sorry, but the older I get, the less tolerant of stupidity I become.........If you're CCW carrying why advertise ? And why draw/display in a social situation ?

The Southwest has a long tradition of "Barbecue Guns" - handguns embellished and engraved more for public display than ordinary use - but I've never seen/heard of anyone carrying one shooting a fellow guest at random. (Yeah, I'm sure net sleuths can find some instances.) >MW

Whatever you do to a gun keep the records and make sure is compliant with the law or they can screw you real bad.
Cheers,
E.

This is a new one on me. What states have trigger pull weight laws?

1stMarine


I don't understand your post.

What does it mean in plain English?

It means they should make him wear a t-shirt for the rest of his life that says
"I am irresponsible idiot", copy that?

Let me know if you need in other languages I can do that too.

Cheers,
E.

Sounds routine for a death, especially one where the person who caused it might claimed it happened because of a defect in the gun.

I also never take a reporter's "report" at face value. I've seen plenty of stories that I know didn't happen the way the reporter "reported" it.

OOooo - RAH !! Мoλoδeц !

1stMarine,

I am confused about what you mean by keeping records on trigger jobs and being compliant with the law.

What law? Does some state mandate trigger pull weights?

Negligent shooting is a negligent shooting without regard to trigger pull.

Treat all guns as loaded

Point in a safe direction

Keep your finger off the trigger

etc, etc.

I believe MA has trigger pull weight laws. I thought I read that handguns must be drop tested and have a 10 pound trigger pull....ouch!

What is considered a trigger job/modification?

Something bad should happen...

A trigger that has been modified and it is too light might be considered as a liability and IT WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN COURT.

Reloaded carry ammo whether is more deadly than factory or not, it is a liability and IT WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN COURT.

Now a brief and recent story:
Last fall a good friend of mine sent his mini-14 to an 'expert' he found online to have it accurized. The gun came back looking nice with extra bedding and nicely bolted to the stock and an adjustable light and crisp trigger job.

While at the range one day the rifle started to slam-fire. At first we though it was something else but it did it twice and I told him to stop right there. We were discussing whether to send it back to the 'expert' or take a look and finally he decided to let me take a loot at it. I proceeded to carefully and slowly disassemble the extra screws, stock out, trigger out and looked carefully at the trigger job. After a few minutes I quickly realized that the trigger disconnect was not engaging the sear so there was a good chance that one would run into slam fires consistently.

So, what the armorer / gunsmith wannabe sent back was an illegal firearm. Something should had happened this is the way it would have come down in court and most likely somebody would be in a trial with felony charges. Luckily I was able to fix it with a stone and suggested to get either the original trigger or an aftermarket good quality trigger. The pull is now at about 3lbs and he is very happy but I suggested to get it looked at and he is going to do it even if that might not be necessary anymore.

I didn't write the laws. They were already there (savy lawyers included) when I arrived to this world. If in doubt ask any NRA certified instructor and he/she will confirm the above to you.
Reputable firearms companies and gunsmiths are expensive and a substantial money goes in to A)Quality and Careful inspection B)Expensive Liability Insurance.
Manufactures are very careful to make clear than after you 'touch' a stock firearm they have no liability anymore. This is a fact and understandable why.

Why do you things the firearms laws are so confusing? it works great for them as they can catch you in anything sometimes
even arbitrarily. Even law enforcement do not understand them so how come citizens can make sense of this non sense? ask any NJ resident.

Keep your firearms records straight and your nose clean. That is my honest advice to everyone.


Cheers,
E.

For example...I installed a Ghost 3.5lbs trigger bar on my Glock 10mm. It is my SD gun...I'm assuming that is considered a trigger job?

1stmarine (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=135795)
Now a brief and recent story:
Last fall a good friend of mine sent his mini-14 to an 'expert' he found online to have it accurized. The gun came back looking nice with extra bedding and nicely bolted to the stock and an adjustable light a crisp trigger job.

While at the range one day the rifle started to slam-fire. At first we though it was something else but it did it twice and I told him to stop right there. We were discussing whether to send it back to the 'expert' or take a look and finally he decided to let me take a loot at it. I proceeded to carefully and slowly disassemble the extra screws, stock out, trigger out and looked carefully at the trigger job. After a few minutes I quickly realized that the trigger disconnect was not engaging the sear so there was a good chance that you will ran into slam fires consistently.

So, what the armorer / gunsmith wannabe sent back was an illegal firearm. Something should had happened this is the way it would have come down in court and most likely somebody would be in a trial with felony charges. Luckily I was able to fix it with a stone and suggested to get either the original trigger or an aftermarket good quality trigger. The pull is now at about 3lbs and he is very happy but I suggested to get it looked at and he is going to do it even if that might not be necessary anymore.

I didn't write the laws. They were already there (savy lawyers included) when I arrived to this world.

Cheers,
E.

Now in this scenario you described if this rifle you fixed for your friend were involved in a shooting could you be held liable since you repaired the illegally modified rifle and was essentially the last person to work on it? It all sounds like a slippery slope, I think anything can be taken out of context in court like the store owner who gets sued from slippery floors or someone who spilled hot coffee in their lap. To others like the guy described in the story the best advice is always follow the rules of safe gun handling and never point your gun at anything you're not willing to destroy and you won't end up in some newspaper story or a misguided courtroom.

The trigger has been fixed and it works great with reasonable pull.
But the answer is Yes!. potentially I can be liable. That's why he is taking the gun to a gunsmith.
That is a fact. Not my opinion. I am not a lawyer but ask around.

These are not cofee spills or olive pits but firearms we are talking about.

mbruce,
Yes! Glock will not be liable anything should happen with that gun. Whatever it is. Read and think. Not here, read the manuals other manufacturer papers.
Again I am not lawyer and you should talk to one but my honest advice is for carry to have a stock firearm as much as you can and use high quality factory only ammo.
For the range is another story as the objective is not to ever have to shoot anyone there but records keeping and some considerations is also important.
the paper targets will not sue you.