.454 Casull shortened to .45 LC length?


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Pigoutultra
February 15, 2011, 09:37 PM
Would it be possible to use .454 Casull cases shortened to .45 Long Colt length in order to make the use of .45 LC +P load data in replica firearms safe?

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nalioth
February 15, 2011, 09:46 PM
Unless your replica firearm has "Ruger" written on the side, using +P loads in them will probably become a fun trip to the ER (it'll void the warranty of a Ruger, too, if it doesn't tear it up).

Pigoutultra
February 15, 2011, 09:53 PM
As I understand it, the .454 has thicker case walls than the .45 so shouldn't it be able to withstand more pressure by itself and not need as much support by a chamber?

The Lone Haranguer
February 15, 2011, 09:55 PM
I can think of nothing a shortened .454 Casull case would do that a standard .45 Colt case would not. In fact, it might increase pressure due to thicker case walls (if applicable). Besides, with "replicas" chambered for .45 Colt, it is not going to be the cartridge case that is the limiting factor, but the strength of the gun itself. Unless the "replica" is that of a Ruger Blackhawk, "+P" loads shoud be shunned altogether.

mes227
February 16, 2011, 01:48 AM
As I understand it, the .454 has thicker case walls than the .45 so shouldn't it be able to withstand more pressure by itself and not need as much support by a chamber?'

Absolutely not. The modulus of brass is so much less than steel that the strength of the brass doesn't come into play until you've already failed the steel in the cylinder.

Gryffydd
February 16, 2011, 02:00 AM
Remember, brass is just a gasket. It's up to the firearm to handle the pressure.

PapaG
February 16, 2011, 11:15 AM
New 45 Colt brass is plenty strong. Stronger in what it will stand than the replica single actions out there, or the open top "conversions".
You want a 454, buy a Freedom Arms 454, a smith 460, a Raging Bull, or a Redhawk. Don't risk your hands hotrodding a 45 colt in anything but a Contender or a Blackhawk.

CraigC
February 16, 2011, 12:04 PM
Absolutely not! The case is just a gasket, it is the chamber that contains the pressure and the action that must withstand the backthrust. There is really no need for stronger brass than good Starline or Federal .45Colt cases. Which can be loaded to 50-55,000psi without issue. However, that is only to be done in very strong five-shot .45Colt revolvers such as custom Rugers and Freedom Arms model 83 revolvers.

Tell us exactly what you are thinking about doing so that we may advise you accordingly. Sounds like we have an incident just waiting to happen.

Pigoutultra
February 16, 2011, 01:27 PM
My replica is a Ruger and I was thinking it would be able to be hot loaded even more with the stronger brass.

CraigC
February 16, 2011, 02:10 PM
Doesn't work that way, if it did, everybody would be doing it. If your Ruger is a large frame Blackhawk, Bisley or Vaquero, then stick to published "Ruger only" loads. If it is a mid-frame New Vaquero, then stick to standard Colt SAA loads.

ljnowell
February 16, 2011, 02:33 PM
Doesn't work that way, if it did, everybody would be doing it. If your Ruger is a large frame Blackhawk, Bisley or Vaquero, then stick to published "Ruger only" loads. If it is a mid-frame New Vaquero, then stick to standard Colt SAA loads.

Craig is dead on right. There is a myth out there about 45 colt cases being weak, modern cases are no weaker than a 44mag case, they will hold the same pressures.

The gun holds the pressure though, the brass is no more than gasket.

rcmodel
February 16, 2011, 02:35 PM
+1,000.

The .45 Colt brass is not the limiting factor in containing pressure.

The big holes & thin walls in the cylinder are.

rc

dagger dog
February 16, 2011, 07:14 PM
Let me run this by y'all, using W296-H110 in .45Colt +P loadings, the large volume .45 Colt case is not conducive to the faster burn rate 296-110 powder right? So in using the thicker walled .454 Casull case cut to .45 Colt length, would you gain any advantage there?

USSR
February 16, 2011, 07:32 PM
...the large volume .45 Colt case is not conducive to the faster burn rate 296-110 powder right?

No, actually it is a very popular powder for heavy loads in the .45 Colt Rugers.

Don

dagger dog
February 16, 2011, 07:39 PM
I realize it is a very popular powder for .45 Colt, it is just that you have to use magnum primers,and you can't be stingy with the dipper 'cause problems occur (squibs) if you try to reduce the loadings, in other words you have to go full tilt boogie or change powders.

Thats why I thought the reduction in case volume (using the .454 Casull cases) would be an asset when trying to use 296 or 110 in .45 Colt.

Gryffydd
February 16, 2011, 07:57 PM
not conducive to the faster burn rate 296-110 powder right?
This is the first time I've seen W296/H110 described as having a fast burn rate...

you have to go full tilt boogie or change powders.
That pretty much describes that powder, but I don't really see that as much of a downside really.

oldgoat46
February 16, 2011, 08:04 PM
Do not do it.

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