ATF info for a Canadian Eh!


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VentureUser
February 15, 2011, 11:18 PM
just trying to find out , definitively what the rules are in Montana, as to a visiting foreigner being in possession of ammunition,and or reloading components?
I live within 2 hours of the Montana -Alberta border and would come to buy my ammunition
but when I was researching this the RCMP site states that "ATF" rules more or less say I'm a foreigner I cannot be sold ammo
Hope someone out there has the real scoop maybe a gun shop owner or member of the ATF ?

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Old Fuff
February 16, 2011, 12:54 AM
There are no laws on this side of the border that would prevent a FFL dealer in Montana from selling ammunition or components to a Canadian, but you might run into trouble with Canadian Customs trying to take it back, particularly if handgun cartridges were involved. Unfortunately we have no say about what they do.

VentureUser
February 16, 2011, 01:01 AM
thank you for that, As I've never attempted to purchase ammo in the USA I wonder though do you not need to show identification of some sort to buy it? would a FFL ( clarify please ) knowingly sell to me for if I had no problems in the States once I make it to Canadian customs I know the laws I am dealing with and they wont turn me around and try to send me back !! only after rifle ammo anyways
Handgun laws up here are fascist

Old Fuff
February 16, 2011, 01:20 AM
In some of our states (California is an example) there were some controls on the purchase of handgun ammunition - but I understand a judge overturned it.

Montana has no such laws, and the only reason a dealer would ask for identification would be to confirm you were at least 18-years of age (rifle & shotgun) or 21-years old or more for handgun ammunition.

If you want to get warm, come all of the way down to Arizona, and you'll find there are no restrictions at all... :D

VentureUser
February 16, 2011, 01:31 AM
I will consider that an invitation and as I get older and start hating these long miserable Canadian winters we just may become shooting friends

NavyLCDR
February 16, 2011, 11:26 AM
Here is the applicable Federal law. Montana will have no state laws that are more restrictive:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—

(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));

(y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas.—
(1) Definitions.— In this subsection—
(A) the term “alien” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(3)); and
(B) the term “nonimmigrant visa” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)).
(2) Exceptions.— Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

As long as you are admitted to the US for lawful hunting or sporting purposes you are legal to purchase ammunition.

Old Fuff
February 16, 2011, 11:26 AM
For obvious reasons, we get a substantial number of Canadian visitors during the winter. To be honest, an occasional storm from your area of the world does reach us, but at the present time we are expecting highs in the high 60's and lows in the high 30's, and within a few weeks we should be in the middle 70's or better, with tree buds and flowers starting to bloom.

Other parts of the Soutwest are even warmer. ;)

Blackrock
February 16, 2011, 11:31 AM
I know of several Canadian winter visitors who shoot trap here in Arizona during the winter. They seem to have their own shotguns and buy and burn a lot of ammo.
We have a B.C. resident here on a work visa that purchased a shotgun locally and shoots with us.

Hypnogator
February 16, 2011, 11:49 AM
It would seem that you would be OK to buy ammo in Montana, since IIRC, Canadian citizens do not require any type of entry visa. Therefore, you would not have entered the US under a "nonimmigrant visa." Just to CYA, however, if you are asked or required to fill out a form asking your purpose for visiting the US, you would want to answer, "sporting."

VentureUser
February 16, 2011, 01:31 PM
Thank you to everyone on this post after a lot of my family moved back to the frigid north I barely ever make it stateside except for a quick wedding or funeral
Back when I was 14 (legal learn to drive age) my grandfather and I drove from Calgary to Round Rock TX over 2 days and nights in Oct it was 80 F about 3/4 of the way back through Montana started seeing snow got to Alberta was about 3 in snow on ground and about 10 F




( Don't eat the yellow snow :D)

VentureUser
February 16, 2011, 01:41 PM
thank you for the site addy,
it would seem that as I can legally enter the US ( with a passport ) that I cannot get a FFL or myself in any trouble over the sale of ammunition as long as VISA and Passport don't get confused

hermannr
February 17, 2011, 09:53 PM
"Legal entry" into the US for a Canadian means you went through a real customs house border crossing, not through uncle Joe's farm field.

Sure, if you are in he country properly, you can purchase ammo. If you are down here on a work visa (green card) you can purchase firearms in the sate you reside in. The key is, cross the border properly, and there is no problem.

rodregier
February 18, 2011, 12:59 AM
It is a violation of US law to export ammunition or metallic reloading components to Canada without the proper ITAR export paperwork issued by the US State Dept.

If a Canadian is simply purchasing and consuming ammunition while within the United States then the ITAR export rules do not come into play.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-18.pdf

Read the section titled:

Purchasing a firearm or ammunition
from a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL)
for exportation.

VentureUser
February 18, 2011, 10:09 AM
It is a violation of US law to export ammunition or metallic reloading components to Canada without the proper ITAR export paperwork issued by the US State Dept.

If a Canadian is simply purchasing and consuming ammunition while within the United States then the ITAR export rules do not come into play.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-18.pdf

Read the section titled:

Purchasing a firearm or ammunition
from a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL)
for exportation.
Wow Hard enough deciphering Canadian gun laws let alone the USA's I had looked at the ATF's main site and could find nothing that could get me into trouble I did notice a 2005 last updated on the pdf could the part about non immigrant alien removing ammo from US have changed?

rodregier
February 18, 2011, 01:10 PM
The US export rules for guns and ammo to Canada changed a little while after 2001.

For quite a while US was exempting Canada from the ITAR export rules, but rescinded the exemption around that time. Very annoying to Canucks, since it reduces the retail channels available to Canadian residents for such things.

Kind of sad that I look back on that period and fondly reminice about "the good old days".

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