Bullets Hitting Sideways?


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Pictures
February 16, 2011, 12:36 AM
Somebody posted on a youtube video of mine and made a pretty good observation. They stated that my bullets weren't making holes and said that my bullets might be hitting sideways. Is that possible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb9IKtgilWw

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1stmarine
February 16, 2011, 12:43 AM
Yes that is possible. It is called key holing. This could be due to a bad barrel,
A bad ammo, incorrect ammo, or all of them at the same time.

Pictures
February 16, 2011, 12:49 AM
The gun was brand new, so I'm not sure if the barrel is bad. I was shooting Tula ammo. What should I do at this point?

areagan
February 16, 2011, 12:49 AM
Yup, you sure do have a tumble problem. First change the ammo, try some decent stuff like S&B and if it goes one, find a good gunsmith.

Pictures
February 16, 2011, 12:50 AM
Ok, will do.

1stmarine
February 16, 2011, 01:19 AM
Pickup a quality ammo and grain of bullet that is appropriate for the rate of twist you have in the barrel. something one have to consider carefully in rifles and not so often a problem in pistols but it can happen
Also do a visual inspection to make sure every thing looks ok with a nice and smooth barrel and it should be brand new rifling.
Make sure the rifling goes all the way to the end of the barrel. I have seen CNC machines stop short and this will screw up everything. I hope that you have a warranty if that is the case. Again, very very rare.

so most likely is the ammo type/ brand or grain selection

If you give more details about the firearm and the ammo I am pretty sure some folks here can give you even more precise direction but if in doubt do not hesitate to consult with a professional/gunsmith in the area.

Cheers,
E.

9mmepiphany
February 16, 2011, 01:42 AM
You don't have to break the bank on the ammo either...although better ammo will give you more consistent results.

Just get a box of CCI Blazer or Winchester White Box 230gr FMJ to try out in the gun.

It does look more like a barrel problem...which brand of gun is it?

Pictures
February 16, 2011, 01:49 AM
It's a Metro Arms American Classic Trophy. Here are the specs:

# Caliber: .45 ACP
# Overall Length: 8.375”
# Barrel Length: 5”
# Height: 5.5”
# Width: 1.25”
# Weight (empty): 37.28 oz.
# Frame: 4140 Steel
# Slide: 4140 Hammer Forged Steel
# Single Action
# Dovetail Front Sight w/ Fiber Optic
# Adjustable Novak-Style Rear Sight
# Flared and Lowered Ejection Port
# Ambidextrous Thumb Safety
# Reverse Plug Recoil System w/ Full
# Length Guide Rod
# Slim-Cut Beavertail Grip Safety
# Beveled Magazine Well
# Checkered Mainspring Housing
# Standard Slide Stop
# Combat Hammer
# Combat Trigger
# Throated FORGED STEEL Barrel
# Front & Rear Slide Serration
# 8-Rd Magazine w/ Bumper Pad
# Checkered Mahogany Wood Grip w/ Diamond Cut
# Finish: Hard Chrome


Photo of the barrel. Not sure if you can tell anything from that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/temporaryscars/P1000938.jpg


Ammo info:

Russian made Tula. .45 Auto. 230 gr FMJ steel cased.

W.E.G.
February 16, 2011, 02:09 AM
Could you have possibly found a CRAPPIER target backer?
Are you surprised that the bullet holes from that big bullet are shredding the paper on a target that is so poorly supported?

Mount your targets on a non-shredded heavy cardboard backer if you want to inspect bullet holes.

Ignore youtube comments.

yeti
February 16, 2011, 02:37 AM
Yeah, hardball doesn't give pretty, neat, round holes to begin with, and that swiss cheese backer couldn't have been helping all that much, but it sure did look like those bullets were keyholing an awful lot by the time they hit the target.

Try a better target mount and some different ammunition and see if thing turn out a bit better.

andre73
February 16, 2011, 02:37 PM
Tula ammo has a copper washed steel jacket on the bullet as well. Did you recover any of the rounds? Every steel jacketed ammo that I have ever recovered had very shallow (sometimes none) rifling marks on them. American FMJ rounds (copper over lead) generally have deep marks indicating they are engaging the rifling better. Try some Winchester white box before you blame the gun.

Andre'

BlackSky
February 16, 2011, 05:32 PM
Russian made Tula. .45 Auto. 230 gr FMJ steel cased.

Well there's your problem. Get yourself some american made copper jacket FMJ and my bet is you'll see a big difference. WWB or Fed AmEagle are two reasonably priced and good quality brands for killing paper.

NMGonzo
February 16, 2011, 05:35 PM
Better backstop, clean cardboard and all ... then get back to us if you please.

I never had problems with any of my multiple cheapo purchases.

W.E.G.
February 16, 2011, 05:47 PM
It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that there is an issue with the ammo in this instance.

I challenge any of you who have suggested that the TULA ammo is keyholing to provide evidence that this ammo has such tendency.

Pictures
February 16, 2011, 05:53 PM
I'll do a whole battery of tests this weekend. Sadly, that cardboard is just what they had at the range. I worked with what I had. I'll make sure it's on something a bit more solid this time around. Stay tuned.

Pictures
February 16, 2011, 06:21 PM
Bit of an update.

So, I remembered that soon after that video, I went to my parents and did some target shooting with my dad. We put up a pretty thick piece of particle board and shot at that. So, I got on the horn and asked my mother to take pictures of the bullet holes and send them to me so I could check them out. Here they are:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/temporaryscars/shots001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v309/temporaryscars/shots002.jpg

Same gun. Same ammo. Even from the same box.

I'm thinking it was just the crappy cardboard backstop the first time around. I'll still test it out just in case, but I'm not worried.

jrod102
February 16, 2011, 06:32 PM
Does it look like the barrel has been crowned? If not you'll have problems like this. Has the barrel been damaged on the end to interfere with the crown? Just thought I'd throw these questions out there. It was just something that came to mind.
________________________________________________

Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you! :D

Pictures
February 16, 2011, 06:43 PM
Well, I think the second set of pics show there's nothing wrong with it at all.

yeti
February 16, 2011, 07:41 PM
Well, I think the second set of pics show there's nothing wrong with it at all.

Well, I think I agree.

1stmarine
February 16, 2011, 10:03 PM
Yep!! Nothing wrong with it. Teh barrel looks flawless and the secret it was in the backboard waiting for you. I the video though looks like it was keyholing.

Make sure next time you put a nice piece of think cardboard and you should be ok. I would not sue the steel cases though ans switch to brass. Learn to reload if you have to it will be better for your gun and your pocket at the end of the day.

NG VI
February 16, 2011, 10:09 PM
Whoa...

I think I see the problem...


Your barrel is all twisted!

TH3180
February 16, 2011, 10:23 PM
My Buck Mark was key holing right out of the box. Here is what I pulled out of the barrel after shooting it's first 100 rounds of CCI SV. Yes you can have a bad barrel out of the box.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i131/TH3180/Guns%20and%20Fun/DSCF7344.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i131/TH3180/Guns%20and%20Fun/DSCF7339.jpg

wally
February 16, 2011, 10:28 PM
Thin paper targets and a shot up or no backboard will do this most of the time.

Wow I have seen leading in a barrel like that since I stopped buying Remington "Thunderbolt" ammo!

You sure it was really new?

HKGuns
February 16, 2011, 10:39 PM
No way the ammo is causing that, my bet is the el-cheapo back stop you were using. The ammo was ripping the paper when it went through.

TH3180
February 16, 2011, 10:40 PM
Thin paper targets and a shot up or no backboard will do this most of the time.

Wow I have seen leading in a barrel like that since I stopped buying Remington "Thunderbolt" ammo!

You sure it was really new?
Yup it was new. I watched them cut the sticker at the gun shop so I could inspect it before I bought it. They ordered it in for me and I was there when the UPS man dropped it off. It got sent back to Browning and they put a new barrel on it. Total turn around was 4 days.That inclues the two days it was in shipping.

Pictures
February 16, 2011, 11:01 PM
Holy crap TH3180! I hope they threw in a free mag or something. That's ridiculous.

TH3180
February 16, 2011, 11:11 PM
Holy crap TH3180! I hope they threw in a free mag or something. That's ridiculous.
Free shipping both ways, stickers, a hat and the place I bought it from gave me 500 rounds of CCI SV to test out the new barrel.

rjrivero
February 16, 2011, 11:13 PM
After watching the video, I would wonder if you are just shooting a poorly supported paper target and just a bit off of square. You can actually see the paper tear on the first two shots, and it doesn't look like a sideways striking bullet. The slow moving ball ammo will tear if you're shooting paper that isn't backed and perfectly square. The fact that the tearing is in the same direction with all the bullet strikes would make keyhole strikes a lot less likely imvho.

WaltonS
February 16, 2011, 11:22 PM
I've "torture-tested" several guns using cheapo Russian ammo. Never saw keyholing with Tula.

makarovnik
February 17, 2011, 07:30 AM
When I shoot Tula from my Makarov they tumble and hit the target sideways. As long as I'm hitting the target I won't complain too much about tumbling in a self defense weapon. Should tear up the meat like a blender.

When I shoot S&B or American stuff there is no tumbling.

1stmarine
February 17, 2011, 10:19 PM
Sideways ok? So we wait until they do like a boomerang and they come back at you to fix it? lol.

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