WWII Remington Rand


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biogenic
February 16, 2011, 01:53 AM
New to the forums. I just inherited my uncles last earthly belongings. One of them was his WWII Remington Rand Govt issue 1911. It's in good shape except the serial numbers are filled off. I love this gun and don't want to part with it for sentimental reasons not to mention he used it to defend our country.

Can someone advise on the legality issues ? I want to use it at the range.


Thanks

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mljdeckard
February 16, 2011, 02:02 AM
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the filed off serial number is a no go, no way around it.

biogenic
February 16, 2011, 02:15 AM
Kinda of stupid questions but would a Gunsmith or Remington able to restore the serial numbers somehow ? I can make out part of the serial number but not completely.

frankenstein406
February 16, 2011, 02:17 AM
Do you have the serial on a box or anything? Etch a piece of paper on it?

Frank Ettin
February 16, 2011, 02:32 AM
Possession of a gun with a defaced or removed serial number can be a very serious matter and could lead to federal criminal charges. I doubt that a gunsmith, who is federally licensed, would be interested in risking his livelihood to re-stamp a number on your pistol.

I believe at one time BATF would authorize re-serializing a gun. I don't know if they still will. If you're interested in pursuing that, I'd recommend finding a knowledgeable lawyer to contract the BATF on your behalf. That way you don't have to be identified.

It's too bad about a family heirloom like your pistol, but right now, it's as hot as plutonium.

biogenic
February 16, 2011, 02:48 AM
I am really bummed.... I read somewhere that veterans did deface the serial #s back in the day since they were afraid that the govt were going to ask them to return back their side weapons....Not worth it to hire an Attorney to purse this...God knows how much they charge...hundreds if not thousands...
It looks like the rand might be taking apart and heading to the 4 corners of the world as I don't need any problems down the road...

frankenstein406
February 16, 2011, 02:56 AM
Just keep it as a safe queen. It's not a shooter anyways since the steel isn't tempered. No need to destroy it.

BHP FAN
February 16, 2011, 03:21 AM
Those guns had serials all overthe place. take it apart, and see if you can find the serial, then replace what ever main component isn't...the frame or slide.Still cheaper than buying another WWII pistol.

Trebor
February 16, 2011, 02:01 PM
The official serial number is the one on the frame. If that number is still there, you are OK. If it has been removed or defaced you could face serious legal problems.

If it's the serial number on the slide that is the issue, don't worry, as only the number on the frame counts legally.

If nothing else, you could completely strip the pistol down to the component parts and rebuild all the original parts on a new frame. It would't be exactly the same, but it would retain part of your Uncle's heritage with less legal worries.

The ATF does have a procedure for reissuing a serial number. You would want to have a lawyer contact them on your behalf if you go that route, so, yeah, it would cost some money.

biogenic
February 16, 2011, 02:12 PM
Just keep it as a safe queen. It's not a shooter anyways since the steel isn't tempered. No need to destroy it.
When you said it's not a shooter you mean it's not safe?

bhk
February 16, 2011, 02:18 PM
When you said it's not a shooter you mean it's not safe?
They are perfectly good shooters. Very safe.

rcmodel
February 16, 2011, 02:28 PM
It's not a shooter anyways since the steel isn't tempered.Not so.

A GI Remington-Rand is as tempered in all the right places as any modern 1911 being made today.
Maybe even better.

I would see if you could raise the old serial number with acid like Grissem would do. Or get someone to x-ray it.
Metal displaced by the serial number stamp is still there if you can find a way to see it.

If you can make it out, it can be restamped with the same number.

or Remington able to restore
Remington Arms is not the same company as the Remington-Rand typewriter company who made GI 1911's in WWII.

FYI = Remington-Rand WWII production:
S/N 916,405 to 955,000 = 1943
S/N 955,001 to 980,000 = 1943
S/N 980,001 to 995,000 = 1943
S/N 995,000 to 1,041,404 = 1943
S/N 1,279,699 to 1,441,430 = 1943
S/N 1,471,431 to 1,609,528 = 1943
S/N 1,743,847 to 1,816,641 = 1944
S/N 1,890,504 to 2,075,103 = 1944
S/N 2,134,404 to 2,244,803 = 1945
S/N 2,380,014 to 2,619,013 = 1945

rc

TheCol.U.S.M.C.
February 16, 2011, 03:22 PM
Was the number removed before the 68 GCA??? before that it didn't matter if it had a number it may be grandfathered in. Might be worth looking into

rcmodel
February 16, 2011, 03:34 PM
If it had a serial number, it has always been illegal to remove it.
And it did have a serial number.

The pre-1968 no serial number thing applied to cheap .22 rifles and shotguns.

rc

biogenic
February 16, 2011, 05:04 PM
I would see if you could raise the old serial number with acid like Grissem would do. Or get someone to x-ray it.
Metal displaced by the serial number stamp is still there if you can find a way to see it.

If you can make it out, it can be restamped with the same number.


rc
How and where can I get that done ?

tyeo098
February 16, 2011, 06:29 PM
Is it still barely readable? Can you (with any degree of certainty) figure out the original serial number?

CoRoMo
February 16, 2011, 06:42 PM
How and where can I get that done ?
Find someone who is willing to CAT scan the frame.

You might look at this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=561357

deadin
February 16, 2011, 08:00 PM
I'm not sure, but even if you can determine the original serial (via acid, CAT scan, etc.) I don't think you can just re-punch the number back on the frame.
It would still be considered "altered" because it is not the original stamping.
Somehow the ATF is going to have to be involved to OK the re-marking.

Frank Ettin
February 16, 2011, 08:47 PM
I'm not sure, but even if you can determine the original serial (via acid, CAT scan, etc.) I don't think you can just re-punch the number back on the frame.
It would still be considered "altered" because it is not the original stamping.
Somehow the ATF is going to have to be involved to OK the re-marking. I'm pretty sure that is correct.

WardenWolf
February 16, 2011, 09:11 PM
Well, if you can acid it yourself and determine the original, you can always get a set of numeric punches and do it yourself. It may not be 100% legal, but it will save you trouble.

Owen Sparks
February 16, 2011, 09:17 PM
It is not illegal if you don't get caught.
I have been shooting 35 years and no one has ever inspected my serial numbers. Just don't harm anyone or their property and don't carry it where you should not and no one will have a reason to bother you. If caught plead ignorance.

Frank Ettin
February 16, 2011, 09:30 PM
...It may not be 100% legal, but it will save you trouble. How does not being 100% legal save the OP trouble? Being "a little illegal" is like being "a little pregnant." There's no such thing.

It is not illegal if you don't get caught.... If caught plead ignorance. A lot of people now in jail figured they wouldn't get caught. In fact very few people engage in criminal conduct expecting to get caught. When someone does something illegal, he is betting his future on not getting caught. There's a lot at stake.

And the OP can't plead ignorance, at least not after this thread. In any case, pleading ignorance very seldom gets you anywhere.

It's the OP's risk. He needs to decide how he wants to handle things.

Art Eatman
February 16, 2011, 10:23 PM
"He needs to decide how he wants to handle things."

Yup. We've pretty well said all that's useful. Enough.

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