blue dot 223 load ?????


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JOHN_T
February 16, 2011, 09:52 PM
I have heard mention of people loading blue dot with 15 gr and a 40 gr bullet in a 223 and getting 3500 fps, is this true... I know not recomended

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BP44
February 16, 2011, 09:58 PM
Im no expert but using a pistol/shotshell powder in a rifle for other than light "subsonic" load seems sketchy:) Now ya got me thinkin about it so I'll see if I can search out some info and let ya know

JOHN_T
February 16, 2011, 10:09 PM
Heard this from a man today that usually knows his stuff... Im just curious to hear about it.... Thats what i shoot in my trap gun !!! Except in a much healthier dose!!!!

bhk
February 16, 2011, 11:22 PM
Blue Dot was (and still is, I guess) commonly used for reduced loads in .223. Never heard of it used for anything else in that caliber.

ralph2
February 16, 2011, 11:28 PM
I have used 12 grains of Blue Dot with a 40gr Sierra Varminter with good results. Best I remember I was getting about 2900fps and I think it filled just over half the case making it difficult to double charge. I never tried to see how much I could get away with since 2900fps was ok for me

Lloyd Smale
February 17, 2011, 06:37 AM
I would leave the range and leave it running if i knew someone next to me had 223 full power ammo loaded with bluedot. Bluedot can be a funky powder to deal with even in handguns and has no place in full power rifle rounds.

JOHN_T
February 17, 2011, 08:54 AM
I realize this, however since it was the first time i heard of it i thought i would ask some of you guys... GOOGLE brings about dozens of loads and people who advertise this as a prairie dog cost efficient round.... JUST some need to know... GOOGLE ( blue dot and 223 rem) and see what all comes up...

ssyoumans
February 17, 2011, 09:37 AM
I'm with John, tons of info when googled, even right here on THR.

This one lays out the benefits. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2027736/Benefits_of_the_223_Blue_Dot_s

I've loaded 40 and 55 gr bullets using it with good results. I don't shoot them often out of my AR since it won't cycle the bolt, but I do like it out of my 243. I followed Seafire's loading recommendations and loaded in the middle of the range. Echoing others, be very careful, a double charge = very bad things happening.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=446724&highlight=223+blue+dot

I loaded up some 40gr Vmax with 9.0gr of BD and got 2200 fps out of my 16" barrel. This is a mild shooting load that is just a little more than a 22 Magnum.

I loaded up some with 55gr HP bullets with 7 - 12gr and my results were pretty consistent with Seafire's. 1600-2400fps. I was pleased with the accuracy but quickly grew tired of manually cycling after each shot.

918v
February 17, 2011, 11:34 AM
Blue Dot is the best for reduced loads, but it is position sensitive.

JOHN_T
February 17, 2011, 07:15 PM
so i loaded some blue dot today.. 14gr of BD with 55 gr nosler.. shot about 1 inch at 100 yds with 3 shots. not sure about velocity... and found an extremely accurate load with a duplicate of one of my buddies. 26 gr of CMR 100 and 60 gr hornady spire. measures so small i wont even try to measure it.. A TRUE ONE HOLE......

SlamFire1
February 18, 2011, 10:30 AM
I read about that load and thought the people shooting it were nuts.

Got to talk to a guy at the range who uses this load, and maybe they are only a little nuts.

He said when he went prairie dog hunting he would fire hundreds of rounds in a day. His Blue Dot loads did not heat up the barrel, were accurate all the way out, and he had excellent barrel life.

I would be curious to know what the pressure curve looks like before I try it, but for others, it seems to work.

Just called Alliant Technical support. They will not even test Blue Dot in the .223 because they do not think it is an appropriate combination.

918v
February 18, 2011, 11:42 AM
so i loaded some blue dot today.. 14gr of BD with 55 gr nosler.. shot about 1 inch at 100 yds with 3 shots.

That is often what happens when you slap together a load without developing it. I developed a load for my SAKO and got .5" at 100 for 5 shots. With BD, primers and powder charge weight matter, as well as the position inside the case.

Clark
February 18, 2011, 12:04 PM
Like ssyoumans says, Seafire is a big proponent of Blue DOt.
I read his stuff and met him in Oregon and went ground squirrel hunting with him in 2003.
I took 1,000 rounds of 3 cent surplus 60 gr TAP bullets loaded with 13 gr Blue Dot.
2563 fps measured by chronograph 24" barrel
[Quickload predicts 2573 fps, 36,521 psi]
That load, as wimpy as it is, will cut a ground squirrel in half, and is way flatter and long range than a 17HMR.
Since then I bought many 35 gr Vmax bullets that were blems because the weigh 33 gr. I paid 7.7 cents each.
These I load with 15 gr Blue Dot.
3486 fps measured by chronograph 24"
[Quickload predicts 3406 fps 34,577 psi
I have shot thousands of these and killed thousand of ground squirrels and many prairie dogs.
They will shoot a .46" 5 shot group at 100 yards.
They are very flat to 180 yards, but need elevation at 230 yards
[B]CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
Don't do this...
I have experimented, this is no way practical, with 18 gr Blue Dot 33 gr Vmax.
Half of the shots show no pressure sign and are 4100 fps 26" barrel.
Half of the shots show bad pressure sign and are 4200 fps 26" barrel.
Quickload may think that is 60kpsi 3940 fps, but the brass can look more like 100kpsi.
I have done that in a couple AR15s and a couple Ruger #1s.
That could be dangerous in a Rem700. Don't do it.


Seafire got the Blue Dot load idea from the James Calhoon website:
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/
I have met and shot with James Calhoon [Jim Leahy and his wife Cathy].
Jim does not have internet access, you must contact him by phone.

What does it all mean?
Blue Dot 223:
Pros:
Keeps the barrel cool
Keeps the barrel clean
Cost less
Makes less noise
Accurate
Turns a 223 into a 218 Bee, which is more appropriate for ground squirrels.
Cons:
Not as high velocity as rifle powders
Peaky erratic pressures with hot loads
Most powders work well way over 55kpsi in 223, Blue Dot should be used below 55 kpsi
Does not fill the case
Flakes can get stuck in powder measures
Need to check every case for fill ratio, in case powder measure made a little charge and then a big charge.
Should only be done by advanced handloaders.

JOHN_T
February 18, 2011, 04:25 PM
918V (SLAP TOGETHER A LOAD)

well as far as slapping together a load " i dont do that" i was at one of my buddies houses and shot the load he uses to see if it would shoot in my gun.... im not an idiot.. it showed promise by shooting a 1in group which means i will start at 11.5 gr and work up to see the sweet spot..

Clark
February 18, 2011, 06:58 PM
I just remembered.
No amount of Blue Dot with a light bullet will cycle an AR15.

More powder makes more gas pressure, but it is also over faster.

Walkalong
February 18, 2011, 09:29 PM
With BD, primers and powder charge weight matter, as well as the position inside the case.
I will second the "position in the case" part for sure. It is position sensitive, at least in .22 Hornet. In one position it was fine. In the other position, it severely blew primers.

35 Whelen
February 18, 2011, 09:55 PM
I'm a huge proponent of reducedloads using pistol/shotgun powders as I am an ardent bullet caster. I have a .223, but I don't shoot it much as it sits in the rack in the laundry room in case a coyote ventures too close. Anyhow...

I have a buddy who shoots some cast and Red Dot out of his .223. He uses 5.0 grs. With regards to Blue Dot being position sensitive, I don't doubt this in the least. But it is a fairly bulky powder and should somewhat fill the case which would lessen its position sensitivity. Do I have to walk out to the shop to find out, or does someone here know?
35W

joneb
February 18, 2011, 10:12 PM
I have used BD for .308 Win with Nosler 125 BT. With 16gr of BD it is sub MOA it burns clean and leaves the very barrel cool.
This load has worked well for me on rock chucks, coyote and fire forming cases.

CHALK22
February 18, 2011, 10:34 PM
I have a buddy that loaded some subsonic .223 with blue dot. He said it was very picky about rifle position when shot, and he said he squibed more that one in the barrel of his AR, and I don't believe it would cycle the action. I am not sure if he used small magnum primers or not, but maybe that would have helped with rifle position....

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