Gap in p239 barrel Bushing, Sig no help


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Crashtastic
February 17, 2011, 07:55 PM
I was wondering if anyone had ever encountered a pistol with the same problem as my p239 in 40 cal. There is a gap in the upper bearing surface of the barrel bushing. When I spoke with Ryan Gagneux at SigSauer he advised that it was no big deal, but I'm not so sure. The first two pics are of the gap, the next two show the uneven wear it is causing on the barrel. I've owned several Sigs over the years so I am used to the "sig smile" but I have never seen one with a gap in it.


http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1208/slidez.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2711/slide2w.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8460/barrelf.jpg
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8391/barrel2.jpg

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1SOW
February 17, 2011, 08:09 PM
My 9mm 239 has a 'full' smile.
I would be concerned if it didn't. Either the bbl or the bushing is 'irregular'. I would suspect the bushing is not concentric.

SharpsDressedMan
February 17, 2011, 08:16 PM
Be sure and email SIG and ask if they don't mind that you are sharing it with the internet, pictures and all, since they are not offering to fix it. They might change their mind about helping you.

toocool
February 17, 2011, 09:57 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by "bushing"...my 239 doesn't have a bushing. If you mean the hole in the frame where the barrel sits, mine also has a gap at the top. It has something to do with the slide retracting during recoil...I've had other guns with the same gap...doesn't affect accuracy at all...

1858
February 17, 2011, 10:51 PM
Crashtastic, how does the pistol shoot? Is it accurate? Does it chamber, fire, extract and eject as it should? I can see that there's a low spot on the "bushing" in the frame, so as the barrel unlocks and the slide moves rearwards, it's scraping less of the barrel due to the reduced contact area. Perhaps you feel that the same force over a smaller area means higher pressure leading to increased wear. From a mechanical standpoint, it might not be an issue at all. When you consider how hard the barrel is and how little they wear (in the "smiley region") over tens of thousands of rounds this may be more of a cosmetic issue than anything. However, you can always send it back and I doubt anyone (including me) would question your decision. You paid for it and you should be happy with it.

I have a P239 chambered in 9mm and will take a look at my barrel when I get home.

Sport45
February 17, 2011, 11:01 PM
Welcome to The High Road!

The barrel tilts up as the slide comes back. The hole (or bushing) has to be relieved enough to allow this. It's normal.

The bluing has worn off a good bit of the barrel on my Sig 226. I didn't look at it after a few shots to see if it started like yours.

1SOW
February 17, 2011, 11:05 PM
toocool: When your slide retracts, your barrel tilts up. At the "hole in the slide" is a machined tapered bushing that the barrel rides in when it tilts. You can see this happen if you pull the slide to the rear slowly.

I don't think wear would be a big issue, but more friction on one side of the barrel that the other wouldn't seem right.

If nothing else, it shows poor quality control at a key friction area.

918v
February 18, 2011, 03:53 AM
If nothing else, it shows poor quality control at a key friction area.

Seems to be a Sig trait carried over from the last decade.

1858
February 18, 2011, 06:20 AM
I checked my P239 barrel this evening and can't feel any roughness on the surface of the barrel where it makes contact with the slide "bushing". Run your finger over the "smiley" region and I doubt you'll feel a rough spot. See if you can even find the smiley region with your eyes closed. As I mentioned, the barrel is very hard and it's only the bluing that gets removed. I really don't think this is an issue other than aesthetics.

rellascout
February 18, 2011, 01:42 PM
Crashtastic,

As others have stated this is known as the Sig Smile. It is odd that the smile is not uniform but from what I can see it is not an issue. The front of the barrel is not essential for accuracy IMHO so if it is a little off round it will not effect the pistol's performance. From what I can see from the pictures is the finish on the barrel coming off a bit unevenly which I agree with is not the norm but it does not appear to be guaged or marred in anyway. More detailed pics would help.

Unless there is detectable groves or guaging on the top of the barrel there is no issue and Sig is 100% correct telling you that there is nothing wrong with the pistol. You could make an arguement that the fit and finish of the gun is off a bit but if it is not effecting function I cannot see them doing much about it. Is the point where the rubbing is not occuring out of round vs the rest of the slide? How does the gun shoot? I assume it functions properly. Enjoy it.

rellascout
February 18, 2011, 01:48 PM
Be sure and email SIG and ask if they don't mind that you are sharing it with the internet, pictures and all, since they are not offering to fix it. They might change their mind about helping you.


If you have spent anytime on here dicussing Sigs you know I am critical of their current management and the effect their choices have had on the Sig products but I have to disagree with you here 100%.

This is exactly what the shooting community should not be doing. They should not be ranting and raving over phantom issues. When we do that we appear ignorant. We come across as making a mountain out of a mole hill which validates Sig believing that nothig is really wrong. It distracts from the real issues and slows down their ability to serve customers who have a real problem. Threatening Sig over publizing and non-issue does not nor should it concern Sig.

What we do need to complain about are things like the new Checkmate mags which are shipping with Exter pistols..... :what:

SharpsDressedMan
February 18, 2011, 06:01 PM
Well, sir, and I disagree with your disagreement. It is obviously wearing unevenly, and that cannot be good. Accuracy may be fine now, but I can see the possibility of excess wear occurring (over those guns with no irregularity) until the barrel makes full contact with a full bearing surface in the "smiley" area of lockup. As far as bringing pressure to bear via the forum, internet, etc, and in a firm, but kind letter to SIG giving them one more chance to do SOMETHING (hey, send the guy a few free magazines, just to shut him up, etc), then a consumer has to use whatever means to obtain relief of a grievance. You may not approve, but I do, and that is what makes the world go round. Viva la difference! Besides, even a complete new slide replacement would be cheap public relations for a company in a highly competitive market.

Crashtastic
February 18, 2011, 07:50 PM
There are lots of places on the pistol where a machining error could have been made and I would consider it to be cosmetic, but I don't feel like the bearing surface between the barrel and slide is one of them. Any owner of a sig pistol is well aware that this particular area wears quicker than any other steel to steel contact point, and the fact that 1/4 of it is missing on my pistol really concerns me. The lockup and accuracy are good now, but as others have stated I worry about how a few hundred more rounds will affect it. I've asked this question on several forums and have yet to have a user respond that they have seen another P series pistol with a improperly machined "bushing" like mine, that leads me to believe that perhaps this defect isn't as normal as the SigSauer customer support guy would like me to believe.

1858
February 18, 2011, 08:19 PM
Any owner of a sig pistol is well aware that this particular area wears quicker than any other steel to steel contact point, and the fact that 1/4 of it is missing on my pistol really concerns me.

I'm not aware of that at all and I've owned SIGs for almost twenty years. I still have every SIG I've ever bought and currently have eight. My first P220 bought in late '92 or early '93 has at least 15,000 rounds through it, and probably a lot more than that. However, the "smiley" region is very smooth with no discernible transition between it and the rest of the barrel. I have a P225 with 10,000 + rounds through and it's the same way. As I stated, the bluing gets worn off because it's not hard but the barrel is very hard. If you can feel a difference between the "smiley" region and the rest of the barrel then you may have an issue, if you can't, I don't think you do.

What you might consider doing is contacting Bruce Gray at Gray Guns (http://grayguns.com/) and asking him for his opinion on the matter.

1SOW
February 18, 2011, 10:02 PM
rellascout: When we do that we appear ignorant. We come across as making a mountain out of a mole hill which validates Sig believing that nothig is really wrong.

I'm honestly not trying to be 'just' argumentative If your new Sig came with a 1/4" x 1/4" flaw in the slide 'finish, I wouldn't criticise you for complaining to the company. On the other hand, it will have ZERO affect on gun performance, and maybe less damage than what a holster will do.

This flaw is in the gun's action and could/might affect accuracy and reliability over time.

Sport45
February 18, 2011, 10:09 PM
If you had shot nother 100 rounds or so before looking it may well have had the normal Sig smile. :) Wear patterns develope. They don't instantly appear in their full glory after a few shots.

Take it to the range and shoot it a few times. If it really has a problem Sig will take care of it. Warranty service isn't limited by round count.

Crashtastic
February 18, 2011, 10:46 PM
I'm at ~250 rds at this point. I guess I'll just have to wait and see if it starts to loosen up. Either that or sell the thing on, people usually look at the smiley first to try to determine how much a Sig has been shot, I'm sure I'll take a loss when they see this thing.

I usually perform a relatively thorough inspection of new or used firearms when purchasing, but I never considered that the bushing wouldn't be round. You really have to be the second level of quality control yourself these days.

Sport45
February 18, 2011, 11:00 PM
If I was in the market for a .40S&W, I'd buy it from you and not worry about this "defect". If anything, it may act as a clearance cut in a bearing to help keep lube where it needs to be.

Sig could have lapped the opening out to acheive 100% contact across the top of the barrel and the wear pattern would look "normal". You would have been happy, but the fit would have been looser.

SharpsDressedMan
February 19, 2011, 12:01 AM
Regarding buying or selling it, how many of us would beat the OP down because of "irregular" wear, if we saw this discrepancy before buying the gun? I have yet to meet a gun buyer that does not use flaws to beat down the price. At the very least, the OP has an immediately "devalued" gun.

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