20 MOA Bases


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mnhntr
February 17, 2011, 10:41 PM
How do I determine if I will need a 20 MOA base on my new rifle scope combo?

Savage Long Range Hunter 25-06
Zeiss 4.5-14x50 with Z-800 reticle


The object is a 1000yd yote rifle.

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Tim the student
February 17, 2011, 10:50 PM
I am no long range shooter, but I'd look at the drop of your round compared to the available elevation adjustment of your scope.

I'd bet you will definitely need one.

No offense, but do you have the skill to take an ethical shot at anything at 1000 yards?

A-FIXER
February 17, 2011, 11:14 PM
Good advice Tim, and balistics will show you exactly what you round will do and a 20 moa rail for 1000 yrd shots? Shoot some 600m shots and do it on an mild 10mph breeze and then see if you want to shoot at 1000. You must know your drop,scope,handloads, rifle, and practice.... practice.... practice. Then if you enjoy it welcome to the club of special twisted shooters that have nerves of steel and patience with unlimited goals.....

Maverick223
February 17, 2011, 11:20 PM
You need about 300 vertical inches of elevation, or 30MOA. Your scope has 68MOA, which is just barely enough for the task (as you have to divide by two for the effective elevation). I'd add the 20MOA mount (heck my LR target scope has over 100MOA and I added a 40MOA mount), just because there is no reason not to. It also helps keep your reticle near the center of the adjustment range, which is a good thing (so a 15-20MOA mount is perfect for your scope).

P.S.: I hope you have a big area that is not prone to wind...otherwise that little quarterbore might go faster sideways than it does forward. :p

blackops
February 17, 2011, 11:35 PM
Put a 20 moa base and don't leave yourself short. Learn to shoot that range before you try to kill something at that range.

mnhntr
February 18, 2011, 04:05 PM
I have done some 800 yard shooting and plan to do alot of practice before doing any 1000 yard shots. I do feel confident in my shooting ability to take a yote at 700-800 yards. As for the wind the 25-06 has no more wind buck than a 300 win mag comparing as close to similar weights as possible.

Maverick223
February 18, 2011, 04:17 PM
As for the wind the 25-06 has no more wind buck than a 300 win mag comparing as close to similar weights as possible.Problem is you are comparing the best of one (heavy, high BC bullet), to the absolute wost of the other (light, low BC projectile). With the right loads you can make the 7.62x39mm seemingly outperform the .300WM...or the .25-20WCF shoot flatter than a .25-06Rem.

Using the best loads I could find for either (.25-06 was a 110gr. BT with a BC of .418 @ 3200fps, .300WM was a 208gr. BT with a BC of .648 @ 2900fps), I came up with a deflection (1k yds @ 10mph) of 90in. for the .25-06Rem. (the drop was 313in.) and 57in. for the .300WM (the drop was very close...301in.). That is a massive difference in wind deflection.

:)

mnhntr
February 18, 2011, 04:27 PM
I understand what you are saying and if it was all the same I would be getting a .338 Lapua, if I just wanted to kill them. Hide damage is the name of the game and 300 win mag the bullet choices for least amount of hide damage camparable the 25-06 is minimal. I was using the Federal factory ammo data for comparisons on their new ballistic download.

MtnCreek
February 18, 2011, 04:35 PM
As others have stated, you'll need it to reach that far (unless you're from Kentucky). Check to see if Nightforce makes a rail to fit your rifle. Nightforce rail and rings mesh together better than any others that I've seen.
I'm sure others will disagree with me, but I say go ahead and let the lead fly at those yotes. If I knew it was a safe shot, I would even send a hail merry out beyond 1000.

Maverick223
February 18, 2011, 04:38 PM
I'm not trying to convince you to buy a .300WM (don't know where you came up with that), just pointing out the challenges that you are likely to face. FWIW, I would choose the .260Rem. (or perhaps the .243Win or 6mmRem.) for your stated purpose as it does most everything better, with negligible recoil, less barrel wear (in the case of the .260Rem.) and little damage to the quarry.

:)

mnhntr
February 18, 2011, 04:46 PM
Oh no I didnt take it that way. Thanks for the advice I was considering the .243 But the .260 seems to have very little in the way of bullet choices which is why I got rid of the model 7 I had in .260. The 25-06 seems to have greater wind bucking capability and range over the .243 but without ever haveing loaded for either I have to go off factory ballistic data.

mnhntr
February 18, 2011, 04:48 PM
Also my wife shoots a 257 roberts so we can use the same bullets when reloading:D

JDGray
February 18, 2011, 05:09 PM
The Zeiss lacks in elevation adjustment, so the 20 moa base will be needed.

Maverick223
February 18, 2011, 05:09 PM
...but without ever haveing loaded for either I have to go off factory ballistic data.Now we arrive at the root of the problem. The 6.5mm & 7mm affords more bullet selection than anything else. 6mm & .30cal. are close runners up. OTOH the .25cal. affords a pretty poor selection, but even still there are a few gems (like the one I listed in the ballistics comparison).

For any of the above (and most others), it would be a good idea to take up handloading for stretching out to 1k and beyond. You are limiting yourself, not only to a narrower choice of projectiles/loads, but also with regards to accuracy. If you have the time and a small investment budget (a couple hundred dollars is enough to get started), I highly recommend reloading.

:)

mnhntr
February 18, 2011, 05:20 PM
I will be handloading for whichever caliber. I currently load alot of handgun calibers but for rifle I am just starting. I have loaded a few for my .223 and 257 roberts. Where are you finding the selection for the 6.5mm (260) because I normally get my stuff from Natchez or Midway USA and it seems as though the bullet selection from Berger, Sierra, Speer, Hornady and the others is about twice as much in .257 over 6.5mm. The .243 and .30 cals are alot more abundant in choices as the rest.

Maverick223
February 18, 2011, 05:29 PM
Where are you finding the selection for the 6.5mm (260) because I normally get my stuff from Natchez or Midway USA and it seems as though the bullet selection from Berger, Sierra, Speer, Hornady and the others is about twice as much in .257 over 6.5mm. The .243 and .30 cals are alot more abundant in choices as the rest.I do most of my business with MidwayUSA. The key isn't the number of different bullets (though there are a few more in total; with 5 pg. of 6.5mm and 4 of .257cal.), but the selection of weights, profiles, and types of bullets. The 6.5mm excels as you can get everything for it, most importantly bullets with a BC exceeding .600 which is pretty darn efficient!

:)

mnhntr
February 18, 2011, 11:34 PM
I apparently looked at this in the wrong way. I was just looking over the variety in weights and not the coefficient. It seems as though there are more weights in the .257 but better coeficients on the .264.

Maverick223
February 19, 2011, 12:05 AM
Bingo! The quarter bore probably has more lighter bullets available, but the 6.5s definitely have the advantage on the bigguns.

Now that isn't to say that you can't take that .25-06Rem. out to 1k, just that there may be better choices and you should know what you are working with before you begin to dump tons of cash into it.

:)

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