[Bananna bore]

Shooter's Express in Gastonia NC sold me on the "trust" bs saying that all I had to do was to set one up with their in house staff and my can, M11, and UZI would only be a few tax stamps away. Can went through, but the autos strangely could not be done after I put $9000.00+ into them.They said the trust would work on the can but I still had to have a Sheriff sign off on the autos which was a NO. Then they had the gall to send me a letter saying that I needed to give them permission to sell them for a 15% plus fee. I have been dealing with this crap for over 2 years now. Anyone else out there got it in the wallet and *ss like I did?

[A-FIXER]

I feel for ya man, I feel the pain here in the heartland. so sadd.

[A-FIXER]

I did google N.C. class 3 heres a link that just breaks my heart....http://www.pdhsc.com/class_iii.htm I'd be torqued if my dealer had not passed ALL INFO B4 the purchased was made I'd make him eat the cost...

[Aaron Baker]

It sounds like the legal situation with CLEO signoff and trusts in North Carolina is pretty dismal.

But for an NFA dealer to insist on charging you a 15% fee because they didn't warn you that a trust wouldn't allow you to buy machine guns is just wrong.

But what throws up a red flag for me is this "in house staff" that you refer to that helped you create a trust. Was this person an attorney?

If they have staff people who aren't attorneys that are practicing law, then you've got some leverage to keep from getting stuck with that 15%. The unauthorized practice of law is a crime in most states, and they could be in real trouble if they're drafting NFA trusts without a law license.

Short version: trusts cannot be drafted by non-lawyers for use by anyone but the person doing the drafting. You need a law license to practice law, otherwise you're breaking the law in most states. If that's what happened, use that as leverage to keep from losing money for their mistakes and bad advice.

You might want to get a lawyer to help you out at this point.

Aaron (who is a lawyer, but is not YOUR lawyer)

[medalguy]

+1 on practicing law without a license (or good knowledge!) I've advised several folks considering setting up a trust to use an attorney. Here's a very good reason to do so.

[Bubbles]

In NC the particular crime is the "unauthorized practice of law". If the FFL's in-house staff employee who helped you is not a licensed attorney in NC, that FFL can get into a lot of trouble.

Per http://www.ncbar.gov/public/upl.asp you should report the matter to the NC State Bar Association, who will investigate and turn it over to the authorities in your county if they find a problem. If the Sheriff and/or DA are at all anti-gun they'd salivate over taking down an FFL (which is why I'm very careful to stay on the right side of the law and keep a good attorney on retainer).

Did they charge you a fee to make the trust for you? While it's not required for the law to be broken, I bet it would help your case if you could show a receipt with that service listed on it.

ETA: As a C3 FFL I am very aware of which CLEO's will sign off, and which will not, for every county within several hundred miles of our location. If you live anywhere near this dealer and he sold you the machine guns knowing full well that you'd never get a CLEO signoff, and then he demanded a 15% restocking fee when the forms got kicked back, you're probably not the first customer he's ripped off. I wouldn't even give him the chance to make it right - I'd got straight to the NC Bar Association.

[D Boone]

Wow, kinda nasty there. I would get my 9k back and walk away. The shear threat I would hope make them stop this practice. Has anyone a running list of NC counties that the CLEO's do sign?

[38SuperMan]

I live in NC, and this isn't the first time that I've heard of Shooter's Express hosing someone. I'm not into NFA stuff yet but when I do I will be doing business with Rob Peetz @ Repent Arms of Concord. They are a class III dealer with an excellent reputation. They are honest and will tell you straight up what you can and cannot do and help you the right way to obtain NFA and class III items.

[woodsoup]

Ol' Alan Cloninger signed off on mine. But then I don't go within 1000 feet of shooters.

[john81276]

Shooters is a place that always struck me as preying on the uninformed. Their prices are pretty steep, never particularly impressed with their service. Great location generates a lot of traffic...

[GoingQuiet]

This is completely and utterly insane and reprehensible. Dishonest people in the NFA business give everyone a bad name. The unlicensed practice of law regarding trust formation by the dealer is also a widespread problem and something that I will not get behind in any case.

I'd call the bar association anyways, the fact that you were not told lies is even more egregious since a trust is a trust - unless the trust was written to hold a SPECIFIC type of NFA item like a silencer, there is no reason that a trust prepared to own silencers would not work to own an MG.

[dprice3844444]

well,after reading your predicament,research transfers between dealers and corporations/trusts.if you have a properly done trust you should not have a problem.with corps and i think trusts,you should not need a law enforcement signature.i did a short barrelled shotgun xfer for a shotgun w/out law enforcement signature.the paperwork states individual,not corporation or trust.the corporation/trust is the owner,not an individual.

[Aaron Baker]

dprice, if you aren't a NC resident with a machine gun, then your post isn't particularly helpful.

The issue is that trusts are a creature of state law. NC state law is apparently problematic in some fashion when combining trusts and machine guns.

Aaron

[Bubbles]

NC state law requires the CLEO to issue a permit for the gun even if the owner of the machine gun is a trust or corporation. Some CLEO's refuse to issue those permits.
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/states/north-carolina/