[martysport]

I got got Lee 456-220 mold today :D
I've done loads of aluminium casting (and still do) but I just cannot get on with lead which I would have thought would be simple?

Have a look at these piccys (and when you have finished crying) tell me what I'm doing wrong :banghead:

http://martysport.webege.com/bullets/001.JPG

http://martysport.webege.com/bullets/004.JPG

Everything is nice and hot but to me it really looks like the die isn't warming up? I cast about 100 and out of the lot I guess I have about 2 good ones :eek:

On a more positive note I put one of the conicals into my reamed 1858 cylinder and then measured it and got 0.453" I also slugged the barrel and got 0.4505" so I have a nice step of 0.0025" so I'm hoping it will shoot quite well but I want to get the bullets right before trying it.

[junkman_01]

How are you filling the mold? Ladle? Bottom pour pot? Looks like maybe you are not getting the lead into the mold fast enough? After a hundred pour, I guess we can rule out temperature or oil contamination.

[martysport]

I'm using a ladle, the holes do seem small on the sprue plate which would cause slow filling but I don't really want to open them up as it would be harder to open the sprue plate and put extra strain on the die.
I did clean the mold in acetone before using it so I really don't think it's oil contamination.

[Chawbaccer]

Looks like a cold mold to me. How fast are you casting? How hot is your lead?

[BHP FAN]

looks like you may have zinc in your mix.are you useing wheel weights?

[martysport]

I was using some lead ingots I bought from another BP shooter.
I also melted down some used round balls and got the same results so I don't think it's the lead.

After reading this

http://www.gunweek.com/2004/feature1201.html

I think I must still have oil on the mold.
I'll have another try tomorrow.

[BHP FAN]

Still looks like unmixed alloys from here. how sure are you of your ingot source? could be some zinc wheel weights in there. reason I say this is the symptom for zinc is that no matter how hot you get the melt it never quite mixes.have you tried pre-heating the mold?

[martysport]

I'm pretty sure the ingots are OK but as I said I melted down some (used) store bought round balls and get the same results.

I havn't heated the die in the molten lead itself but I did hold the die over a gas burner for a minate or so, do you think it needs longer?

[BHP FAN]

if I pre-heat my mold usually I'll just mold two or three ''culls'' before I start getting ''keepers'', but if I mold cold I can count on about ten.

[72coupe]

Marty set a corner of your mold in the lead pot as it melts. When the lead no longer sticks to the outside of your mold it is hot enough to start.

[4v50 Gary]

Too cold. They go back into the pot. Once the mould warms up, they'll come out just fine.

[ADKWOODSMAN]

Also looks like a cold mold to me.
RDH

[Sniderman]

Looks cold, try leaving your ladle as well as the corner of your mold in the pot, when they're both hot enough so the lead won't stick to them you should be good to go.

[junkman_01]

Read the original post. He said he casted 100 and only kept 2. Still think it's too cold? Come on now.:eek: There has to be another reason.

[scrat]

Too cold.

You need to heat up the lead more and the molds more. Here is how you know if its hot enough.

Pour in the lead wait about 5 seconds then smack at the sprue to cut the top.

If you really have to wack at the sprue then the lead is too cold. if you smack at the sprue and it looks wet still then your ok.

When you pour the lead if it cools quickly like in an instant on the sprue then its too cold. it should take a good 5-10 seconds to cool a bit and harden up.

if you pour it in and you have to wait about 20-30 seconds to cool down to smack the sprue its getting too hot. Try rubbing a corner of the mold on a piece of wood if it leaves a burn mark on the wood. Let it cool down for about two minutes.

Never use water to cool down a mold regardless of what the books say. Just place the mold halves closed on a piece of wood and let it cool naturally to avoid it from warping

[damoc]

to cold and i had a similar problem using tire weight lead and found i had to
get it a lot hotter to make it work in the mould than i would have with pure lead

also had to have the mould hot

[dogrunner]

Marty, SMOKE that mould.............those Lee moulds will work well if you precisely follow the instructions..........got a bunch of 'em & I have experienced exactly the conditions your bullets exhibit. First, clean the devil out of those blocks.....I use an old toothbrush and Dawn detergent. Dry them thoroughly (wife's hair drier works well if she doesn't catch you). Then SMOKE it..........wooden match works great (don't use a candle) make sure both sides of the block are covered with carbon. To heat that mould,dip just the edge of it while closed into your mix............you might have to throw a few prior to getting the results you want.

I'd note that if you are using pure lead (plumbers lead, flashing......really soft stuff) then run your heat around it's top end. 7 to 8 hundred is OK for wheelweights, but in my experience the nearly pure stuff will cast better at a higher temp...........if you go too hot then the bullets will appear frosted, if so then just let that mould cool a slight bit........it's worthwhile keeping a damp, not soaking wet, sponge to touch that mould to to cool it if that happens.........whatever you do tho, DON'T get that water near your lead.

Good luck, let us know how it works out.

[J-Bar]

Agree, everything is too cold. Turn up the temp on the liquid lead and also get the mold hotter. The sprue should cut easily when the lead is just a couple of degrees below melting. Your deformations are caused by the lead solidifying before completely filling the mold cavity.

[45-70 Ranger]

Had a similar problem with a Lee that threw crappy castings for a .45-70 slug. Try as I might it was just a mess. But a buddy told me to just cast as fast as I could. NEVER let the mould even think of cooling down. That was just the ticket for this Lee mould.

I'm an old iron mould guy from way back in the early 60's. I know iron, but the aluminum (spelling?:)) was throwing me for a loop! But the fast casting was just what was needed to get the slugs right. Just pour, smack the sprue as soon as it starts to solidify. Dump the rounds and get back to pumping lead back into that mould. Go like you're in a race for time and it just might surprise you.

Wade

[PapaG]

A. Degrease first with acetone, then with denatured alcohol...from the drugstore, high proof
B. Smoke the mould with kitchen matches, the strike anywhere kind
C. When the metal is molten, dip the corner of the mould in the lead, hold it there until the lead does not adhere when you remove it
D. Cast...second or third should fill out
Your problem looks like contamination of the mould, metal too cold, or something I have not found in almost sixty years of casting.

[BHP FAN]

Still looks like zink contamination to me. Here's why...when the two different kinds of metal cool at different rates, you get splits that look just like your pictures.

[Voodoochile]

Could be a cold mold too.
I know my Lee .450 mold is very finiky & really like to be HOT to get a good cast, if I start to slow down a little like when I re-plennish my pot I have to re-heat the mold or I'll get this issue.

Be sure that you have a Clean Mold by using alcohol to clean it then smoke it to help in the release.
Have the mold in the pot for as long as the lead on the outside is still solid, once it can simply knock off it's ready for casting.

[zxcvbob]

Too cold, or the lead has too much arsenic in it (calcium or zinc might do that too, I don't know.) At first I thought it was an oily mold, but they wouldn't crack like that, they would just be wrinkled -- and you said you cleaned it with acetone.

Also try adding about 1/2% to 1% additional tin if you have any.

[arcticap]

I've done loads of aluminium casting (and still do) but I just cannot get on with lead which I would have thought would be simple?
Have a look at these piccys (and when you have finished crying) tell me what I'm doing wrong
Everything is nice and hot but to me it really looks like the die isn't warming up? I cast about 100 and out of the lot I guess I have about 2 good ones

I suppose that the hardness, weight and size of the imperfect projectiles could be scruitinized to determine more about their [pure] lead content. But absent of that, proof of the cause will hinge on whether or not any quality bullets will ever be produced from that batch of lead.

Here's why:

Its a parts per million thing. It only takes a very small amount of zinc to ruin your lead. The parts per million is very very low. What happens is when you start to cast the lead will not fill out the mold all the way. You will be dropping bullets that look like they were cast from a cold mold. Thats why everyone says to do them in small batches. say you are making ingots out of wheel weights. you should only do about 20lbs at a time. that way you have control of whats going on and in. If you have a batch of wheel weights that look a little funny in the pot. Then you of course flux it skim it flux it again. Then you notice when you pour the ingots they dont fill out all the way. corner edges are round edges. just dont look right. Continue casting ingots with that pot until empty. Then after it all cools down, clean out the pot with warm water and detergent. This is after they cool down all the way. Do the same with the molds and ladels. As for the lead you just poured. Well. Sell it post it on ebay or something in the fishing section. It may make horrible bullets but for fishing weights, jigs it will work just fine. As for shooting. Nope it will be unbalanced Jus flawed. I mean if you want you can still shoot them but your accuracy will suffer for sure.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4599959&postcount=4

[martysport]

Thanks guy for all the advice :)
Turned out to be a just too cold (I guess lead, ladle and die)
I heated up the lead more and left the ladle and die in the lead and it was more or less perfect from the 1st cast :D
I made about 60 and all look quite good for an amateur :p

As you can see, much better than the 1st attempt!!!!!!!
http://martysport.webege.com/bullets/good/005.JPG

I can't wait to test a few, maybe next weekend.

One quick question, lead water pipe any good for casting?
Theres a guy not too far from me who is selling 31KG of old lead pipe kinda cheap I was tempted to get it but I really need to know what to look for (I assume if you can put a scratch in it with a fingernail it will be OK?)

[Chawbaccer]

Ohh, shiny. I like a happy ending.

Your lead pipe is probably sewer pipe, it will probably have a lot of contaminates in it. Just cast ingots first so you can clean it up.

[bushrod2]

Great for casting,smelt into ingots outside with plenty of flux to bring contaminate dross to the top. Should be pure lead!

[martysport]

Here's a piccy of the pipe (water not waste)

http://193.164.197.40/images/018/0185045900.jpg

I might go and get it next weekend :)

[Sniderman]

I'm thinking you've got it figured out.
Looks good!
I believe your cold ladle was your main problem, I've been casting lead for almost 50 years and found long ago that a ladle will chill the lead very quickly if it's not kept in the pot with the lead.
The lead pipe "should" be fine, I've used it before. It's going to be very dirty so you may want to melt it into ingots, removing the slag in that stage before you start making bullets.
See if he'll give you a little to try before you buy it all, if not, I'd just go for it.

[BHP FAN]

sweet! glad I was wrong on this one...

[arcticap]

That batch of bullets looks just like a bunch of proverbial frogs that had all been kissed by a princess! :D

[martysport]

lol they sure do :)

[Hellgate]

If still getting wrinkles after 100 casts then the lead in the pot is too cold to warm the blocks. Smoking the mold or spraying the cavities with a dry graphite lube will help but smoked or not you won't get wrinkles like that if everything is at a high enough temp..

[45-70 Ranger]

One of the troops that works for me has a neighbor that is a retired plumber. My guy will get me 20 pounds or so every month to keep "The Boss" happy:uhoh:

I have found that like the other have, melt it down. Get the crud out of it. And then go to town...The lead pipe is great for all my needs. The cost is good too;)

Wade

[Bluehawk]

May I suggest getting a lead casting thermometer? My Lyman thermometer lasted over 10 years and Lyman happily replaced it with a new one when it did finally break down.
I don't cast anything w/o that thermometer!

[WALKERs210]

Seems that you have received enough information to get you casting like you want. One trick or method I was shown was to tilt the mold slightly to one side and let lead go down the edge of sprue hole rather than straight pour. Helped me with minie molds

[Noz]

The water pipe is excellent. I'll put up with crud in it any day.

[BHP FAN]

me too. the only thing I've found that was better was lead flashing off a victorian houses roof. dead soft, and pure.

[martysport]

I finally got round to getting that lead pipe today :)
It seems dead soft, you can gouge it easily with your thumb nail.
I'm looking forward to turning it into ingots next weekend.
I paid 40euros for it (31KG) making it 1.29euro per KG (or 80 cents USD per lb)
I 'should' be able to make 2000+ 220g conicals or 3200+ round balls with all that!!!!!!!!!

[BHP FAN]

neat. there's is nothing more satisfying than making your own bullets...well, I mean in the shooting sports, of course.have fun!

[Busyhands94]

good job sir! very nice looking bullets!

[armoredman]

I have to say I had more difficulty with a 5 cavity mold that I couldn't heat up enough, so I pre heated it on my stove set on low/medium. Worked great after that. Nice shiny boolits there, sir!