CCW Buying First Gun. I have questions.


February 20, 2011, 02:38 AM
First of all, I live in a rural area where rentals are not an option. That's out. I do, however, live in an area where several friends have guns they will shoot with me at large thick metal plates of varying sizes and colors, at varying distances, and for scores and bets. It's a blast. The SW Sigma 9 I shot has a horrendeously long DAO trigger, in my opinion, and because of that not very accurate for me. Here is what I am looking at, and here are my thoughts and concerns.

I am going to IWB carry, so I would like a small pistol with a manual safety system and a decocker. That may be difficult to find, and I may have to go a different direction. If all else fails, I may go with the glock 26, even though it has no external safety. The HK P2000 is probably my dream girl, but a little too pricy perhaps. We may come back to that. Help me out here! I have confidence in the glock, because almost every LEO that I know personally swears by them in every way and claims that safety is not an issue as long as proper handling skills are aquired and followed. Fair enough. My first desire is a short, crisp trigger, on a gun with with good concealibility, I would actually prefer a good DA/SA trigger set up, with a decocker. I've been told that I am too concerned about safety. If I ever need to pull, God Forbid, I will not aquire my safety, the gun will be pulled from me, and I will be shot with my own gun or worse! I kind of doubt that, but ok. I like the SW M&Pc, the Springfield XDMc, the HK P2000, and a few others. What are the triggers comparable to? I could buy any of those and be happy IF the trigger was right. What grips would fit a smaller hand best? The Glock is a slightly wider grip and I hear complaints there. I have a SW 22 that is awesome to plink with, and if I could find that trigger on a CC gun, I would like that a lot. Any help or thoughts, or recommendations would be appreciated. I might throw in that I am new to this world, either in experience, hunting with bow or gun, or blowing big things up on the fourth of July. I am just not familiar with this specific market and lifestyle. But it's time!

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Shadow 7D
February 20, 2011, 05:04 AM
Buying a gun is a personal choice
I don't know you, your tastes and what you like or dislike

How you carry is one of the MAJOR factors, some can/will shove a brick like a glock or XD down thier pants

Others like something in the line of a classic pocket pistol or a KelTec

So, what you describe is mostly found on LARGER service pistols, The pistols you like are not the best for IN-the-waistband Carry. You are all over, and looking at full size guns (it's how wide not long that counts in IWB) for CCW IWB. Read a bit here or on CCW boards

A larger gun has more rounds, A larger caliber has fewer
A lighter gun is easier to carry, and harder to shoot
A smaller gun is easier to hide, and MUCH harder to shoot

So, the Ideal CCW gun, a itty bitty pocket monster in .50AE with a 12round mag....
wouldn't be itty, nor bitty, nor fun to shoot.

What might be pleasant in 9mm or .380 is uncontrollable in .40
A same size weight pistol in .380 and 9mm will be easier to shoot in the lighter .380 etc...

your ergos and your likes are yours, sorry, but you need to go fondle the merchandise and TRY IT ON, cause a butt in your kidney every time you sit down, sticking your self when you bend over, the pain of metal rubbing your hip....

AHH, the pleasures of CCW. A good holster/carry method avoids most of that pain...
and what fits me, won't fit you.

February 20, 2011, 01:21 PM
Shadow, I understand and appreciate your comments. I fully realize that I was all over the map regarding my thoughts. The Kel Tec or Ruger LC9 is too small, and not what I am looking for. I am not totally unfamiliar with pistols. I have carried a 4" GP100 in my vehicle for 20 years. I probably will continue to do so. It's just not a CCW.

Realistically, the Sig 239 with DA/SA is what I am looking for in a less expensive package. It is what I want at 6.6 L and 5.01 H and single stack width. Likewise, so is the HK P2000 @6.81 and 5.04. If I were in a stressful situation, I think I would appreciate the DA first round to help prevent an unexpected discharge. As a guy new to CC, it's a concern now, although in several months it may not be. I may have to come up with the bucks to get what I want, and cut corners elsewhere in my budget. Who needs tires, anyway...

A nice, light trigger is the most important thing that I can come up with, other than fit. A Ruger SR9C fits my hand and my budget, and has a thumb safety, yet those that I have shot have a DAO trigger that doesn't feel quite right. If I were to have night sights installed and a trigger job it might work. It just seems a little "cheap" in my hand. I don't know how else to explain it. What are your thoughts on that?

The Glock 26 is a little wide, but I shoot it fairly well although I feel like I need to readjust my grip on every shot because of that. I feel like I need to rotate my hand out and forward a bit to reach the trigger. I like the glock trigger. I also don't feel totally at ease with the trigger safety being the only safety, if that makes any sense.

For that reason, I am looking at the Springfield XD sub compact. It has the grip safety, which makes me feel a little more secure regarding accidental discharge if it were to be picked up by someone not familiar with a weapon, ie, kids. (That's my main concern with a glock. I don't have young kids, I secure my weapons if I know someone is coming over, but I still have those thoughts,) It fits a little better than the Glock 26, and although I have not shot one, I have dry fired one. The trigger seems to be one that I would like, but as you said, that's a matter of taste. I have not shot one. Once again, if I don't like a trigger, I guess I can get it worked.

I guess this is my question. Is there a DA/SA subcompact, maybe single stack for width purposes, with a manual safety and a trigger in the 11.0/4.5-5.5 trigger pull?

I VERY MUCH appreciate any thoughts, comments,, or even constructive criticism about my thought process. I am trying to learn. I know I over analize pretty much everything in my life...I have been told that numerous times! Thanks for your help!!

February 20, 2011, 02:00 PM
A Sig P239 in 9mm would be a good option with it's DA/SA action and decocker. The P239's are very accurate and fun on the range. IMO you don't need a safety (P239 don't have) on a DA/SA for CCW. You will find the Glock 19 9mm to be the same basic size as the P239 but holds 15+1 rounds. It is a little bigger than the Glock 26 but some people prefer it, including me, over the 26. If a person has issues with the 5 lb. on a Glock they can be easily and cheaply fitted with a NY-1 trigger which increases the pull to 8 lb. and makes it feel like a DA revolver. On the used market you can find Smith-Wesson Model 3913 and 3914 9mm DA/SA single stack autos and 6904 and 6906 double stack autos. These S&W's are thin in the slide and are excellent for IWB carry. Do not over look the compact allow frame 1911's. Their thinness makes them ideal for IWB carry. They do have the thumb safety that you have to remember to slip off, but on range time will take care of that. Typically the single action trigger on the 1911's make for very accurate shooting. Good luck with your selection.

February 20, 2011, 03:05 PM
Most DA/SA guns with frame mounted decockers do not have manual safeties. To get a decock/manual safety combo you'll probably have to look at guns with slide mounted decockers. The only exception that comes to mind is the Bersa Thunder 9. It's about as bulky as a Glock (13 round mag in the compact if memory serves), and mid-20something oz (with alloy frame). It's a pretty nice gun, though, in the mid $300 range. The Bersa's safety works like a 1911 - up for safe and decock, down to fire. No cocked and locked, though.

Oh, yeah, the Taurus 800 series... forgot about them and I own one! I've got a PT845... excellent features. Very slim for a double stack, very light, interchangeable backstraps, frame mounted decock/safety (up for safe, down to fire, down further to decock, cocked and locked option), nice trigger (better than Sigs to me), fully ambi, price point around $400. I think they are making a compact now. Taurus never suffers from lack of variation.

What kind of price are you looking at, by the way?

February 20, 2011, 03:06 PM
Beretta 21a Bobcat, 22. Tip up barrel. Hardly any kick and cheapest to shoot. You can't practice if you can't afford to shoot. You practice with cheap stuff, keep it clean, and keep it loaded with stingers. You can always move up in caliber with more confidence. With practice you'll be able to get off 7 shots in less that 2 seconds and hit your target. Bullet placement is the most important factor in stopping your human predator along with much practice. Everyone is going to tell you that it's too small a caliber. For what you need, it will be perfect. Most people can't afford to practice with the higher calibers and therefore not proficient with the weapon. Practice enough and it will come to you automatically without having to even think. It's called muscle memory. Other than that you could also opt for a 38 snub airweight, very easy to use but expensive to practice with and has a lot of kick or recoil which decreases the amount of shots being able to get off in a short period of time with accuracy. Seven shots in 2 seconds will stop anyone. Seven shots increases the shock factor exponentially. Like getting shot by a 12 gauge shotgun with double ought buck. Just remember, no matter what anyone says about it not being powerful enough, if you can't control the gun or afford to practice with it, you might as well buy a can of pepper spray or a stun gun. I keep a 9mm (second cheapest round ) in my car and a beretta 22 in my pocket. Bring it on.

Shadow 7D
February 20, 2011, 04:50 PM
Um, yeah, read what he posted, and I doubt he wants a .22, or that gun
the Tomcat is the same, but in .32, but most of what he wants is going to be found on compact versions of service weapons.

February 20, 2011, 07:10 PM
I may have over looked the Taurus handguns, considering the features that I am looking for. I remember the Taurus from 30 years ago, most likely. I don't remember much good about them. I assume that they have improved and changed, and from what I hear, many of their models are Beretta clones. I understand that they may be cheaper because they have cheaper Brazilian manufacturing costs. That may or may not be true.

I am hoping to keep things below 500, although that figure is not locked in stone.

February 20, 2011, 07:20 PM
Not too many folks on this forum mention Ruger P series but I bought a P345 for CC and use a High Noon Split Decision IWB holster. I occasionally use a Fobus paddle holster as well. With my girth and height either combo works for me. Price range is around $350 to $450 used to new. Mine was used and priced near the middle.

February 20, 2011, 08:06 PM
I second the 239. Wife and I have 2 one in 40 one in 9.

What I like
Easy to shoot and very intuitive
The de-cocker is perfectly placed and just works well.
The trigger guard on the 239 is longer than most other options. Its shaped like that to accommodate gloved hands, I live in Mn it's cold I wear gloves a lot in the winter and I am not talking thin leather gloves I mean man gloves. Stuff you wear when it -20 out. I can draw the gun from the holster and get my finger on the trigger without hassle.
They are reliable
They have night sight options
They are accurate.
Double action pull is smooth and easy
40 Cal option can swap barrels out to 357 sig

What I don't like.
Price. They are a little more than other options but this is a small gripe the quality speaks to the price
Lower Capacity than some options. 7+1 in the .40 and .357 sig and 8+1 in the 9mm

February 20, 2011, 08:48 PM
Wow, gun taken away, used against you... wow.
Um, what kind of situations do you plan to be in where someone is going to take your firearm away from you? If you put yourself in a position where this could happen, well maybe you need to not go there in the first place.
If you're talking about being in a rural area, out and about in the woods perhaps, I'd say keep your wits about you and if for ANY reason someone surprises you, get the drop on him/them, don't wait for an invite because it ain't coming.

I don't understand the fixation you have on decockers, but if it's a "must have", I owned a very very nice .380 Beretta 84f, golden sabers or hornady critical defense... 13 round mag, one up the pipe... 14 rounds to go downrange; it has a de-cocker.

I carried it for years in an IWB holster, Uncle Mike's.

Glocks are very nice, but unless you have the discipline to never, ever, touch that trigger until you actually need to, it's an accident waiting to happen. Worse yet are those guys who say you should not have any ammo in-battery when carrying a Glock. Nice, so when you get jumped, you ask for permission to charge your gun BEFORE firing commences! That's a non-starter.

If you want more BANG... you could carry a Colt Officer's "Compact" model 1991A1 .45acp which fits nicely in small hands, or even a Springfield Armory GI Champion .45acp with 4" barrel, both 1911's have very slim profile, but pack a wallop, have a manual thumb safety AND a grip safety too. Yup, I'm a 1911 guy, but that 1911 is very low profile. You can carry a 1911 cocked-locked and all you have to do is flick off the thumb safety and you're in the fight.

Also, you're potential assailant will see the muzzle end of your .45 that always says, "Go away!" in any language.


February 20, 2011, 09:05 PM
Bob, I agree. I can't see a pistol being taken out of my hand and used against me. That is what some seem to say when you speak of a manual safety on a CCW. I don't really buy that.

Let's be honest. If I wanted to plink at 30 yards, I would take out my S&W 22. I am not really concerned about my safety, either. I just figure that we have Second Amendment rights, and we need to use them. When reading through these forums on this or other sites, it seems to me that some that carry are looking forward to the day when they can pull their weapon. You tube is full of idiots pretending to be experts. If I ever have a need to use a CCW, it will most likely be at 4 feet rather than 40. Shooting bullseyes at that distance is not a major concern, although I do enjoy shooting occasionally. It's nice to hit what you aim at. I also don't plan to get into a firefight with terrorists, where I may need 18 rounds. Realistically, if I need more than 8, I'm probably screwed anyway. It kind of cracks me up when people talk of carrying "17 in the clip, two mags on the hip"..where in the heck do these people live? Afghanistan?

I appreciate the input!

February 20, 2011, 09:09 PM
I have an XDm .40 with a 3.8" barrel. It is still a little big for IWB carry. I usually carry it OWB at home. It seems a little thick for IWB even for a bigger guy like me, so I'm assuming that the XDmC or the XDsc would be a little thick as well.
I have been looking at the Taurus Slim series pretty seriously. They have a the PT709 in 9mm and the PT740 in .40 S&W. I have rather big hands and they seem to fit me pretty well, but it is a small grip, so I was somewhat surprised that it fit so well. It is a DAO, but it does have an external safety as well as a Glock type safety in the trigger. I didn't dry fire it, so I'm not sure how the trigger is, but I am pretty impressed so far. Very well could end up being my next gun purchase.

February 20, 2011, 09:34 PM
If you really like the Sigs, but the price is prohibitive, see if a local shop can get you a Certified Pre-Owned model. They are often department trade-ins or contract overruns that have seen little use or have been refurbed. We get them from several distributors and directly from Sig. They're the ones in the red boxes. Downside- you may have to be patient to find the config you want (especially in a non service model). Upside- you get a like new Sig with a factory warranty at a used price.

As far as Taurus goes, their current offerings are a different ballgame than their old guns. Over the past ~5-10 years they have really stepped up the QC. I put them on par with Ruger these days, no doubt. They still make the Beretta and Smith clones, but they have expanded their line considerably. They have several different families of polymer framed guns with varying features. Check out their online catalog. I think they are worth a look for anyone looking to spend under five, and specifically if they're trying to beat the price of a Glock/XD.

+1 Hunter on the slim series, but the grip is VERY slim. Think Kel Tec PF9 or Kahr P Series. Better feel than a micro .380, though.

Shadow 7D
February 20, 2011, 10:33 PM
Ok, here is a fun gun, two actually and both have MOST of what you want

The CZ82 ~200
the Polish P64 ~200 and smaller
both in 9x18 Mak

the P64 isn't that bad, its single stacked, shoots a round that is WIDER than 9mm para/nato/... at a speed that is faster than .380, any ways, the both work great and if you want DA/SA leave the P64 trigger and hammer springs alone, The double action is about 20# ( yes I thought the gun was broken the first time I tried the DA) BUT the SA is scary target light ,maybe 2# SA. It has a safety/decocker (on the slide) and is walther PP size, just a tad to big for your pants pocket.

The only downside on the CZ 82 is that it requires you to manually drop the hammer, no decocker, BUT if you remember to take your finger of the the trigger it's safe, as that allows the internal hammer block to function. Trigger is Both DA and SA are AWESOME, smooth, and it works IWB as the slide is really narrow, with just the grip being fat (12+1)

February 20, 2011, 10:36 PM
I am getting some really good info here. I appreciate it. I can't honestly explain why I feel such a need to get my CCP. I may not carry much at all, but I have been told that once I get use to the idea, I will. I find it interesting how many people carry that I was unaware of. Like I said earlier, I live in a small town.

How is my rationale on the need for a double stack mag and it's girth vs a single stack and it's lack of capacity? Unless you are a LEO, is there a need for 15?

Another random thought...since I keep comparing everything to the Glock 26, is that what I should just go with? If it doesn't work out for me, I don't think that my son would have any issue with me giving it to him. With his job in a large metropolitan area, often getting off late at night working as a waiter as he helps put himself through school, he needs a CCW worse than I do anyway.

February 20, 2011, 10:41 PM
Get the XDm Compact .40 and you will have the CCW you need and with the extra 16 round magazine and extension you'll have a great range gun.;)

February 20, 2011, 10:57 PM
Is there a sub compact in the XDM line? What is the trigger like? I know that the specs on the XDM read 5.5-7.5, and that's quite a difference in feel.

February 20, 2011, 11:15 PM
I am not really concerned about my safety, either. I just figure that we have Second Amendment rights, and we need to use them. .

If you are not concerned about your safety you might want to reconsider buying a gun to carry. Every one I know who carrries does so because they are concerned for their safety. That is why we/they practice ad nauseum to get it down pat so we do not make a mistake and get innocent people killed. If you are only going to carry because you can, then I'm just not sure that is the right reason to arm yourself.

...When reading through these forums on this or other sites, it seems to me that some that carry are looking forward to the day when they can pull their weapon. You tube is full of idiots pretending to be experts.

I have not met or seen anyone who posts on these forums who "are looking forward to the day when they can pull their weapon". Quite the contrary. Every gun owner/carrier I know or see on these forums wants the exact opposite. Please don't confuse being ready with "looking forward to pulling their weapon". There is a big difference & you need to realize the difference. We constantly practice so that we don't make a mistake if a situation presents itself. Being prepared isn't hoping the day will come. None of us want that day to actually come, but if it does we will be ready.

...It kind of cracks me up when people talk of carrying "17 in the clip, two mags on the hip"..where in the heck do these people live? Afghanistan? ...

It is really great that you know in advance that you will only need a certain amount of ammo when you are attacked. The flaw in that thinking is that there are gangs in this country that attack innocent people. If two or three people attack you then you might appreciate the additional ammo that an extra mag or two offers.

A person hyped up on meth won't magically fall down with 2 or 3 bullets in them. Depending on the caliber you might have to empty the whole mag into one person. That leaves you with an empty gun unless you have a spare on you. Plus carrying extra mags is an insurance policy in case the one in your gun fails when you need it the most... It happens.

...If I ever have a need to use a CCW, it will most likely be at 4 feet rather than 40...

One of the first things we learn is to put distance between us and our attackers. Hopefully you will be shooting at a distance of more than 4 feet. If not then your original fear that you later backed off of (you know the one where your gun is taken away from you ) will probably come true.

February 21, 2011, 01:19 AM
ET, you really let me have it, huh? I guess I need to clarify myself on a few points. I'm not really concerned about my safety, thats true. That's not to say that I haven't been nervous at times. It also wasn't MY fear that I would have a gun taken from me and used against me. It was an example others used on another board to justify their use of guns without manual safeties. I had to go back to the top and re-read my quote, and I see your confusion. It was poorly written. The key to doing ANYTHING well is drilling it until it becomes second nature. The more stressful the situation, the more opportunity for a screw up. That's why we practice and maintain skills.

I will stand by my second statement. I think that there are people that look forward to the opportunity to use their weapon, just as there are people that look for a fight. That's never a good thing. Certainly a minority, but out there. I don't think that anyone will argue that 99% of the people we all know are good people, but laws and rules are for the 1% that aren't.

Don't confuse my curiosity about the experience and thoughts of others regarding CC with a lack of experience on my part in the ways of the world. I wanted to raise my kids in a smaller town, away from some of the reasons that people feel a need to carry. That does not mean that I have not been there, and it doesn't mean that small towns are immune from the issues in the cities.

I appreciate your thoughts on carrying extra clips. That's understood. But, that's one reason that I am looking for opinions here. Personally, I don't see a need for a lot of capacity in a self defense situation. I also understand things happen. I carry three arrows in my quiver when I bow hunt. Some guys carry eight, some six, no one else that I know carries three. I know I am comparing apples and oranges. Obviously, you feel differently. I'm good with that.

If I could create distance, I probably wouldn't need a CCW. It would be pretty hard defending yourself in court if you shot someone while backing away at 20 feet. I'm not an expert, I don't claim to be, and that's why I'm here.

Once again, I appreciate the advice that I have been given.

February 21, 2011, 01:33 AM
Is there a sub compact in the XDM line?

The Compact uses a sub compact grip frame and the slide from the 3.8. The grip length is your biggest concern for CC. Triggers are rated at 5.5 - 7.5 but most come in at around the 5.5 mark. Also the reset was shortened in the XDm line.;)

February 21, 2011, 01:45 AM
CZ, thanks. My brother has a Springfield XD and claims that it is the best pistol that he has ever owned. It's one of his hobbies and he goes through several a year. I don't think that he has ever owned a high end semi auto, but he likes his XD. He claims that he will never sell it. I am already giving the XDM a hard look.

February 21, 2011, 01:54 AM
I haven't noticed much variation in trigger pull weights in the XD series. They all feel about like a Glock trigger to me (5.5 lbs). The XDM has some nice features and is less bulky than the original, but don't expect to find one much under $600.

As for the Glock 26, if you can wrap your mind around the lack of an extra safety, and you like the feel, go for it. You can't beat the performance. If the safety remains an issue for you, the XD is *almost* as good.

February 21, 2011, 11:54 AM
Shelstin, you're getting lots of good advice, and choices to boot. I don't have their experience so my 2cents will be less valuable.

I carry a Taurus pt-111 Taurus makes the 24/7 series in several calibers, even a compact model that is SA/DA with a decocker. That series is well accepted. The company has greatly improved quality control and customer service lately and is gaining market share.

February 21, 2011, 12:22 PM
Nobody has mentioned the S&W's that are setup pretty much like the Sigs with an external hammer and the decocker/safety. The 5906, 5904, 6946 DA with a 3" barrel, the 469 which is SA/DA with decocker and 3" name just a few.

Go online to and do a search on S&W 9mm's. Lots of great semi-auto S&W's for very reasonable rates.

February 21, 2011, 12:25 PM
Just to throw out more ideas....

-walther PPS. Single stack, so it's nice to wear IWB. I'd probably say the trigger is more "glock-like" but it's not bad at all. The mag release is actually part of the bottom of the trigger guard so that can be a deal breaker for some.

-Kahr CW9. Another basic single stack. Trigger pull is a little on the long side but it is very smooth so it may not be what you're looking for.

Just throwing out a couple others that I've had experience with. Both have been perfectly reliable for me and I have no trouble trusting my life to either should the need arise.

February 21, 2011, 12:39 PM
The Smith 3913 is very similar to the Sig 239 but at a much lower price. The only problem is that finding leather for this weapon can be hard. Another option is the Smith M&P 9c with a thumb safety. This is a very nice set up and should cost you in the $500 range

February 21, 2011, 12:56 PM
I'd recommend a few more trips to local shops and post back which weapons appealed to you the most.

If the HK is really what your after, but too expensive. Tough, pony up and buy it. The pistol is one of the cheapest parts of the CCW lifestyle. Even $2000+ pistols don't phase me. Ammo, holsters, clothing, TRAINING, practice all add up to way more than any DW or EB 1911.

Weapon retension IS a huge deal. But safetys, decockers and such have very little to do with weapon retension and take away training. Since most CCW incedents are at arms length this is a very real problem that only proper hand to hand training can prepare you for.

With that said I'd take another look at that Glock 26 or 19. Kahr p9, k9. But don't overlook more expensive guns. DW Vbob, CCO. HK p9, p7. I really hate DA/SA guns. And if your picky on triggers you can't beat the HK p9 or a good 1911.

February 21, 2011, 10:54 PM
Ok...I am picky on triggers. I like the feel of a SA, but the light trigger weight bothers me for a CC first shot. That's why I prefer the DA/SA or light DA. Slam me if you want, but thats how I feel. This I have decided...if I am going high dollar, it's the HK P2000 or the Sig 229. In the 500 range, Glock 26 or XDMc. My CC intstructor says the thick sub compacts are really not the way to go. That's his thought, and he makes it clear it's a preference. He carries a 229. A friend that I respect tremendously and trains the military and LEO on handgun combat carries a HK2000 as his ccw. If I can't afford those, one says a XDM. one says a Glock 26. How's that for confusion? I guess that tells me that they are ALL good.

February 22, 2011, 03:27 AM
Seeing as it is your first CC gun, I'm just going to echo with the others here and encourage training, especially situational awareness matters. Hopefully, your CC licensing instructor will have administered a course in gun safety and responsibilities that'll provide some foundation for you to gain confidence and good, dependable habits in how you carry on your person. As that confidence grows and matures, your current preferences will tweak themselves, and you'll figure out what is appropriate for your environment relative to the perceived risk.

Your friends will come in handy, take advantage of their kindness and research as best you can. You mentioned the Glock, that's a personal favorite of mine that I at first did not think would be viable for me given some of the reasons you've mentioned about external safeties, grip, etc. That perception changed to where now it's my full-time carry. I think the Glock covers your trigger preferences, but concealment is a separate matter. I comfortably maintain concealment with the G19. Your mileage may vary. I personally would like to move to a G26 in the future given how much I love the 19.

Happy hunting, and good luck!

February 22, 2011, 05:58 PM
i'd really like to try a Taurus pt 709. It appears the Gen2 is being released and many of the early problems are fixed from what i read./? The size is right, most say the recoil is good and the trigger is good. I have a Kahr CW9 - great gun but i do have trouble with DAO although it's one of the smoothest i've ever shot- just not used to it and tend to pull low and left still. The arthritis doesn't help

February 25, 2011, 08:55 PM
Thanks for the info. I ended up ordering a gen4 G 26. It is what I kept going back to.

February 25, 2011, 10:51 PM
Good choice. Every gun collection needs a g26, 19, and 23.

When you get tired of the thick plastic front sight:

February 26, 2011, 10:41 AM
Yeah, changing the sights will be one of the things that I have on my list. Which is that?

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