Need small handgun for defense


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marie1
February 20, 2011, 01:40 PM
Any recommendations on a small easy to conceal handgun under 300$ for carrying at work and in my purse?

I work at a womens' medical clinic that has been receiving lots of bad publicity and threats from the local extremist lunatics :mad:

Any help would be appreciated

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Bill_G
February 20, 2011, 01:46 PM
Ruger LCP with ball ammo. $300 new.

Smith J frame with gold dots loaded. about $300 used.

76shuvlinoff
February 20, 2011, 01:50 PM
No one can honestly tell you what will work for you and your situation, too many variables. Do you have any previous experience? Do you have hand strength to rack the slide on an auto? Do you prefer a revolver? Etc Etc.
Go fondle a few maybe rent a few, shoot a lot. Just don't let your local macho gunpusher tell you what a "little lady" needs.

.02

Drail
February 20, 2011, 01:57 PM
Big +1 on "don't let your local macho gunpusher tell you what a "little lady" needs". And let me assure you, you will run into a lot of that in gunshops. It is very prevalent. Try to go a range or a shooting club and shoot as many different types of guns as you can. If some "guy" offers to let you shoot any kind of magnum just smile and say "No thank you" and walk away. I am a NRA instructor and I used to teach women's self defense classes. Find out if there are any NRA courses offered in your area. They won't try to sell you any "macho" garbage.

bobalou
February 20, 2011, 03:15 PM
Beretta 21a Bobcat, 22. Tip up barrel. Hardly any kick and cheapest to shoot. You can't practice if you can't afford to shoot. You practice with cheap stuff, keep it clean, and keep it loaded with stingers. You can always move up in caliber with more confidence. With practice you'll be able to get off 7 shots in less that 2 seconds and hit your target. Bullet placement is the most important factor in stopping your human predator along with much practice. Everyone is going to tell you that it's too small a caliber. For what you need, it will be perfect. Most people can't afford to practice with the higher calibers and therefore not proficient with the weapon. Practice enough and it will come to you automatically without having to even think. It's called muscle memory. Other than that you could also opt for a 38 snub airweight, very easy to use but expensive to practice with and has a lot of kick or recoil which decreases the amount of shots being able to get off in a short period of time with accuracy. Seven shots in 2 seconds will stop anyone. Seven shots increases the shock factor exponentially. Like getting shot by a 12 gauge shotgun with double ought buck. Just remember, no matter what anyone says about it not being powerful enough, if you can't control the gun or afford to practice with it, you might as well buy a can of pepper spray or a stun gun. I keep a 9mm (second cheapest round ) in my car and a beretta 22 in my pocket. Bring it on.

mbruce
February 20, 2011, 03:33 PM
check the local laws with the women's clinic. I know in Louisiana guns are prohibited from hospitals and their satelite doctor's offices.

Doctor's offices who are not affiliated with a hospital has their own rules i guess.....

p.s. my wife loves her 5" 9mm and my combat FNp .45acp.... so +1 on don't get persuaded to get a "woman's gun"... One day she'll trade her CCW 9mm in for a CCW .45acp

And you'll be surprised at how well Blastknucles and Bear Spray work.... google both and see what ya think. Less legal implications and i'd say just as effective under most altercations involving a medical facility. Some men may laugh at woman who pulls a gun....but no man will laugh at 900,000 watts of blastknuckles going off...and it's scary loud.

Shadow 7D
February 20, 2011, 04:46 PM
GET TRAINING (actually not a bad idea for the whole place)

Make sure it's OK to carry in the clinic, and if it is, try to get the director to pay for a CCW class.
sorry but, in a situation like that, it is better to train the whole place in put in SECURITY MEASURES than have one or two people think they are rambo.

That said, your issue isn't just 'need a gun' look at how most of the murders have been done, bombs and assassinations via firearms, both are really hard to stop, as they don't tend to talk or yell first, just walk in shooting, or snipe you getting in your car.

DeepSouth
February 20, 2011, 05:00 PM
I've just got say if it's so bad you really fear for you life you might want to find a new employer. With that said the Ruger LCP is probable the most common "pocket pistol" for 300ish. You may love and you may hate it, buying pistols is pretty much a personal preference kind of thing...As already stated training is also a great idea, and also be sure to check the State & Fed laws.

Onward Allusion
February 20, 2011, 05:06 PM
marie1 (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=144933)
Need small handgun for defense
Any recommendations on a small easy to conceal handgun under 300$ for carrying at work and in my purse?

I work at a womens' medical clinic that has been receiving lots of bad publicity and threats from the local extremist lunatics :mad:

Going on the assumption that you are a relatively new shooter because you did not mention your experience level.

Here are a few thoughts...

*If you're a complete newbie to handguns, a double-action revolver will be less complicate to manage as all you have to do is point and pull the trigger.

* .38 Special snub revolvers are NOT good for the newbie shooter regardless of how much the local gun store clerk recommends it as a "women's gun". Recoil is uncomfortable even for me who shoots a few hundred rounds of 9mm & 40 S&W every week. It's not the caliber that is bad, it is the light weight of the gun that generates the felt recoil.

* .22 Caliber is a on par with a 25 ACP out of a short 2" or less barrel, BUT a .25 ACP is more reliable out of the same type of weapon. However, neither is a good defensive round especially in light of the plethora of small light handguns in larger calibers out there.

* .380 ACP & 9mm compact semi-autos are plentiful and run the gamut of affordable to expensive. The 9mm is an acceptable defense round.

* Lot's of folks will tell you that a .380 ACP is the smallest you should go for a defensive weapon especially with the availability of the Ruger LCP or the Kel Tec P3AT. I disagree. When it comes to strictly the gun - Shot placement is key, caliber is second, and capacity is a close third. Of course, situation awareness and training is above all else.

Based on the preceding (if you're a complete newbie), I would recommend a revolver chambered in .32 S&W Long or .327 Federal Magnum. You get six shots -vs- 5 shots from a traditional .38 spl snubbie with less recoil. .32 S&W Long ammo cost is on par with the .38 spl. If you choose a revolver chambered in .327 Fed Mag, you can use .327 Fed Mag, .32 H&R Mag, .32 S&W Long, & .32 S&W Short. If you choose to stick with .32 S&W Long, there are plenty of used H&R 732's in near mint condition out there. IMO, those things are probably the most undervalued 6 shooters out there. I would load the .32S&W Long with Lead Round Nose (actually more like semi-wadcutters) cartridges from Sellier & Bellot.

Now if you are NOT a complete newbie, I would recommend the Kel Tec P32 because ballistics of the cartridge is not too different than the .380 ACP and the gun is extremely lightweight and compact. Yes, it does have less momentum and energy but you get 1 extra round (KT P32 -vs- KT P3AT or Ruger LCP) which can mean the difference in a stressful situation. I personally load mine with either Buffalo Bore or Fiocchi 60 gr JHP in the chamber and Sellier & Bellot 73gr FMJ in the magazine.

BTW, both the KT P32 and H&R 732 can be had for less than $225 each.

Good luck.

Rich223
February 20, 2011, 05:06 PM
Keltec pf9

very simple

DeepSouth
February 20, 2011, 05:08 PM
After thought:

Holster, you'll need to use one even if is in your purse. You need to keep the trigger covered.


I'll also recommend a site my wife likes. www.corneredcat.com

gatornavy
February 20, 2011, 05:11 PM
my wife loves her taurus m850 38 spl, double action only, no hammer to snag on, and if for some reason you squeeze the trigger and it doesnt go off, you simply pull it again, one out of five WILL go off, and at close range, lets say ten feet or so, a 38 spl+p has pretty much the same energy as a 357 magnum. No magazines to worry about, no slides to rack, and pretty decent sized bullet to stop an attack, though this is my wifes preference, it may not be yours, though it is in the price range and it is 100% reliable for her, biggest thing is everyone can say what they want about handguns but in a high stress situation you want as few variables as possible to ensure success, IMHO a DOA revolver does just this, though practice is paramount with any weapon you choose!
Now the recoil is a negative however my wife doesnt mind and she is probably considered petite at 5'2'' and 105 lbs

Telekinesis
February 20, 2011, 05:17 PM
I don't mean for this to be a self advertisement, but I am selling a Bersa .380 for $250 right now. Comes with 100 rounds of defensive ammo too. Its in the classifieds here or you can PM me.

Anyway, back to the advise part of the thread...
I typically consider .380 to be the smallest caliber I would consider carrying for defense. Some other things to consider are the size of your hands, overall strength (racking the slide on a semi auto) and grip strength (being able to pull a double action trigger).

Gun wise, I like the Bersa as you can probably tell, the Makarov is in your price range and is a good, reliable weapon, but the triggers can be heavy. If you're ok with going used, a P6 (basically a Sig P225) is a good gun (though not sure about the price on it). It will have a heavier trigger for the first DA pull. It is also a 9mm so it has a bit more power than the .380s.

If you're willing to increase your price range, HK P7s (in 9mm) are great guns. Really accurate and safe/easy to shoot. The only downside is that they've been out of production for several years, so any gun you would get would be used...

Bananna bore
February 20, 2011, 05:23 PM
You might want to try a CZ82--cheap (around $250), reliable (before I gave one to my wife I even shot it with a two finger hold and worked very well), holds twelve shots, and the army could not destroy them:D!

Shadow 7D
February 20, 2011, 05:25 PM
Corneredcat (a member here)
puts a lot of great info out

Here is some COLD WATER

A gun is not a Majic Talisman of SAFETY
It is a DEADLY TOOL
That you must be trained in how you use it
AND once you do use it, you will spend $20,000+ proving that you were Justified in committing the CRIME of murder or attempted murder....

Nushif
February 20, 2011, 05:41 PM
Here is some COLD WATER

A gun is not a Majic Talisman of SAFETY
It is a DEADLY TOOL
That you must be trained in how you use it
AND once you do use it, you will spend $20,000+ proving that you were Justified in committing the CRIME of murder or attempted murder....

Oh yeah, that'll make her want to use a gun to defend herself.
Why don't you just tell her "I'm the only one professional enough to defend myself." Cause you're really helping the second amendment right now.

All of this aside though, some training is a good idea. My first step would be to sign up for a CCW course (if your state permits), secondly, make sure the clinic is kosher with you carrying (or rather, has no written rules against it) and then get some women specific training. Because I gather those classes are really great and have some fun purse-involved shooting.

That way you know how to carry smart and well.

Remo223
February 20, 2011, 05:46 PM
I disagree with the comments about 38 snubs being too much recoil. There's always cowboy loads. Wadcutters are pretty mild loads too. I have lots and lots of guns and some of them are pretty darn expensive. But you know what I carry most?

A 45 year old charter arms undercover I bought for under a hundred bucks. I load it with seller and bellot wadcutters. And I prefer the original old fashioned plain tiny wood grips. HOwever, I had to do some smithing on that little gun to make it work. A newbie probably should not buy a used charter arms unless its only a couple years old.

Shadow 7D
February 20, 2011, 06:02 PM
Uh, and what part is wrong, I'd rather have her carrying SOMETHING SHE WOULD USE, like peperspray or a C2 Tazer, than pull a gun and freeze, there is more to it than just waving a hunk of metal

BTW, my first post
GET TRAINING (actually not a bad idea for the whole place)

Make sure it's OK to carry in the clinic, and if it is, try to get the director to pay for a CCW class.
sorry but, in a situation like that, it is better to train the whole place in put in SECURITY MEASURES than have one or two people think they are rambo.

That said, your issue isn't just 'need a gun' look at how most of the murders have been done, bombs and assassinations via firearms, both are really hard to stop, as they don't tend to talk or yell first, just walk in shooting, or snipe you getting in your car.

The cold water is to point out that there IS MUCH MORE to it than just buying a gun, like taking the class, filling out the paperwork, actually finding the right way to carry, where you can legally carry etc.
And in the end, you have to train yourself, and have the WILL to use your gun when you need, that last step often is lost in the rush to
EQUIPMENT
EQUIPMENT

thats the LAST step
mindset, training, equipment.....

heeler
February 20, 2011, 06:10 PM
I'm with Remo on this and in fact I recommend the simplicity of the .38 Special 2 inch barrel snubnose with your typical blister pack Uncle Mike's retention strap pocket holster found almost any where guns are sold.
Even a cheap one made by Rossi will get it done for what's needed at the price point the original poster stated.
If the owner buys some 148 grain wadcutters the recoil will be skimmed down considerably.
Also even though a nifty .32 or .380 semi auto mouse gun would be great for a more experinced user a beginner,especially a lot of women,even racking the slide may not be all that easy on a gun that is new because until most are fired a few hundred rounds that recoil spring is quite stiff.
And unless they already know something about the mechanics of pistols if and when they find themselves in a high stress situation which they actually have to use it what are they going to do when that fairly new and not broken in little .32 ACP or .380 ACP semi jams due to newness,limp wristing,etc??
My 27 year old daughter has a .38 Special revolver.

FruitCake
February 20, 2011, 06:21 PM
Please take a look at the Keltec P32. The wifey loves it very much with the pinky extension. Very low recoil and the size is perfect. Out of all the guns I have she only carries this one all the time because of its small size, low recoil and its been very reliable with everything we have fed it. That little thing will do some damage with shot placement. Remember Keltec P32.

Cosmoline
February 20, 2011, 06:32 PM
I work at a womens' medical clinic that has been receiving lots of bad publicity and threats from the local extremist lunatics

Pepper spray is fine for stopping some grabby drunk, but she's talking about a much, much more serious threat than that. Lots of people have been killed in these circumstances, and doubtless more will be.

I'd suggest by getting training as Shadow7d suggests and shooting a variety of small arms. The micro-size handguns are the most difficult of all to shoot well, and you need to pick one that will work for your hands.

Obviously the clinic needs to have layers of security and should have plans to deal with a variety of problems, but these loons will often target people outside the clinic, even following them to church or home.

bigfatdave
February 20, 2011, 06:40 PM
I know what I would pull out of my safe and have you try out if you were here in person ... and I think most of the above posters are thinking along those lines as well.

Until you have tried a pile-o-guns out, and know what features you do and don't like ignore any specific instructions. You need someone or somewhere with that pile-o-guns and some range time.
A pocket gun is not always a beginner's weapon, for example the LCP (or the original Kel Tec design Ruger copied, the P3at) tends to be a snappy little bastard in the hand, and so will a snubby .38 revolver with most commonly available loads. I'm a fan of .32 in pocket guns, if you were in my area I'd offer you a chance at a KelTec P32 and some other simple, inexpensive compact/subcompact/microcompact pistols (I only have one revolver, a NAA mini I picked up mostly as a toy, you'd be welcome to try it, but I doubt you'd enjoy it for extended shooting)

Look for someone local to you with a similar attitude and a selection of guns, offer to buy them some ammo of their choice and/or lunch, read up on corneredcat's site and know/understand the four rules of gun handling, be ready for a safety briefing and a rundown on range rules. An informal range is best for a new shooter, but you might be stuck with a rental/hourly range, so be ready to maximize range minutes by doing all the unloaded handling and safety briefings elsewhere.

Lazyshooter
February 20, 2011, 06:42 PM
Ruger LCP

Onward Allusion
February 20, 2011, 07:31 PM
carrying at work and in my purse?

BTW, don't carry in your purse if you can help it. Purses get rifled through or snatched and are a pain to get your gun out of.

At my office, I would have a hard time concealing a compact weapon much less a full-sized one, so I'm limited to pocket pistols - KT P32 or NAA Mini.

Wild Country
February 20, 2011, 07:33 PM
:neener::neener:Hi Point .380 ACP. $139.00 out the door!

Onward Allusion
February 20, 2011, 07:50 PM
Remo223 (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=144840)
I disagree with the comments about 38 snubs being too much recoil. There's always cowboy loads. Wadcutters are pretty mild loads too. I have lots and lots of guns and some of them are pretty darn expensive. But you know what I carry most?

A 45 year old charter arms undercover I bought for under a hundred bucks. I load it with seller and bellot wadcutters. And I prefer the original old fashioned plain tiny wood grips. HOwever, I had to do some smithing on that little gun to make it work. A newbie probably should not buy a used charter arms unless its only a couple years old.


.38 Special Cowboy loads have about half as much energy than a strong .32 S&W Long cartridge AND a strong .32 S&W Long load has almost the same energy as a target/range round of .38 Special. For a complete newbie, 6 shots is better than 5 and recoil from a 32 is more manageable than the 38's.

BTW, wood grips on a Charter Arms .38 Undercover sting even with range loads. I have one and I had to swap the wood grips out to a set of Pachmayr grips because after a few cylinders, it became uncomfortable to shoot.

omu
February 20, 2011, 07:57 PM
I'm not sure I can keep you in the $300 range, but I will say do NOT buy an LCP without finding one to shoot somewhere. I bought one as an ultra conceal gun for myself. (I'm a gal, 35, and had shot a variety of guns and needed something smaller than my 9mm.) I carried it for about a year, but honestly it was almost TOO small. I felt like it was hard to deal with. Not to mention, when I actually took it to the range to shoot it truly WAS a kicky little bastard. My hand would hurt the next day from the recoil if I shot too much with it.

I ended up trading my LCP in on a Sig Sauer 238, which is a .380. It's small, it's easy to conceal, and I absolutely have had ZERO problems with it since I bought it. I ordered mine in two tone, with night sights, and I love it. I can shoot 100+ rounds at a time and my hand doesn't hurt. I'm accurate with it. I can also hide it no problem in a purse, or wear it easily under fairly fitted clothing in my pancake holster. The only problem is it's above your price range - but honestly I think you get what you pay for. If you want a small auto - this is a NICE gun.

Good luck!!!

Zerodefect
February 20, 2011, 08:13 PM
Seek professional training first. That'll give you a better idea what works for you. I know ya'll in the mediacal field get tons f time off.:D

http://www.tdiohio.com/
These guys are in a quite country town. And have plenty of pistols to loan out for thier classes.

You'll also need a proper holster for inside your purse to keep your weapon safe. Don't over look IWB holsters or ankle holsters.

Your budget is SOL.
But I recommend:
Kahr p9, k9, mk9, or p380
STI RS 9mm
Dan Wesson Gaurdian 9mm
S&W J-frame

pmeisel
February 20, 2011, 08:38 PM
Marie, a 38 revolver from Charter Arms, Rossi, or Taurus may suit you.

donster
February 20, 2011, 08:39 PM
My wife carries a 4 inch GP100 in her purse. She has too much trouble with a slide and is recoil sensitive. She finds the heavy GP100 easier to shoot with .357s than a j frame with lighter .38s. You can get purses made for guns that will let you hold something bigger than a pocket pistol, and you may find you shoot the larger guns better, too.

As others have said, seek professional training. A good professional should have at least a couple types of guns for you to try.

Searcher4851
February 20, 2011, 08:55 PM
I'd have to go a long with some of the previous posters. Try out as many guns as you can get access to. (friends, rentals at the range, etc.) and you will be able to find out what feels best for YOU. (and the practice you get while you're trying them out is always a plus. One can never practice enough)

NMGonzo
February 20, 2011, 09:02 PM
Keltec pf9

very simple

I have one and the snappy recoil could be distracting for a novice. Takes some getting used to, in my opinion, and I believe that is not a beginner's handgun.

I was thinking on something more in the lines of a .38 special with a light trigger for a lady.

Pilgram
February 20, 2011, 09:35 PM
Don't buy a gun first, buy training, then select the gun that works best for you.

I recommend FrontSight in Nevada. It was WAY better than the firearms training I received as a cop. You'll fire about 800 rounds in 4 days and learn to fire two shots from your concealment garb in about 1 1/2 seconds. About 1/3d of their students are women and they cover everything from weapon selection, to legal responsibility, to rudimentary tactics (e.g., you will clear a house in one exercise, and likely shoot your "spouse" in the process). You'll see every gun and gun configuration known to man among the 400-600 people who attend each weekend. There are 2 and 4 day classes.

You can buy Front Sight certificates on eBay for a fraction of the retail price. There will be attempts to get you to buy a lifetime membership, but those are easily ignored.

I forund that it's actually a lot of fun, too, to spend 4-5 days in the Nevada desert with people from all walks of life. If you hate it, you can spend the time gambling in Vegas for a mini-vacation.

I've been back twice for pistol training and am going back for the rifle course.

CZguy
February 20, 2011, 10:29 PM
Don't buy a gun first, buy training, then select the gun that works best for you.



Excellent advice. You won't know what works for you until you have gained some experience. Look at it this way. If you have decided to arm yourself, that would be like deciding to learn how to play golf, or any other sport, and going out and playing a couple of games and then thinking that you are prepared. You won't start out being very good at it, until you parctice.....a lot. And you certainly won't know what clubs or equipment work for you.

I don't want to discourage the OP, but I do want to give a realistic idea of what she is getting into. If that doesn't appeal to you, a consideration would be a non lethal deterrent.

Remo223
February 20, 2011, 11:02 PM
.38 Special Cowboy loads have about half as much energy than a strong .32 S&W Long cartridge AND a strong .32 S&W Long load has almost the same energy as a target/range round of .38 Special. For a complete newbie, 6 shots is better than 5 and recoil from a 32 is more manageable than the 38's.

BTW, wood grips on a Charter Arms .38 Undercover sting even with range loads. I have one and I had to swap the wood grips out to a set of Pachmayr grips because after a few cylinders, it became uncomfortable to shoot.



HUH?

no, no, no. There's no sting in wad cutters. None whatsoever. 32S&W long is about 100 ft-lb muzzle energy. 38special is twice that. Not that muzzle energy means diddly. It's common knowledge 45ACP is approaching the ultimate in self defense stopping power yet muzzle energy for 45ACP 230gr hardball is actually less than 9mm+P.

If you really believe small fast bullets are superior, you should go with a 22 magnum revolver. 300 ft-lb muzzle energy.

Shadow 7D
February 20, 2011, 11:36 PM
TRAINING
you can have all the guns and gizmos in the world and still not know what to do....

shootingthebreeze
February 21, 2011, 09:48 AM
First, go to a good gun dealer and look at a variety of firearms. It has to fit comfortably each person is different.
For example I have settled for the Kar P380 which I will get soon after an exhaustive search. You might consider paying a little bit more.
Second, level of experience at the range.
Third, in MI firearms are not allowed in hospital settings. I have a CPL and there are restrictions as to where one can carry a firearm.

Look at a variety of firearms first this might take some time.

SteveP55419
February 21, 2011, 11:34 AM
You say your clinic has been receiving lots of bad publicity. Could you explain what has been going on in the clinic that would generate bad publicity? One poster suggested that you consider changing jobs and I would second that if in fact bad things have been going on in your clinic. And I think we all know what the subject is here.

Like another poster said, a gun is not a majic amulet. Its a tool that might, just might, get you out of an incredibly violent encounter. Do a little thinking, get a job with a better employer and forget this whole gun thing.

zebco
February 21, 2011, 12:46 PM
Do a little thinking, get a job with a better employer
I can probably agree with this.

forget this whole gun thing.
Cannot agree with that. I personally would never encourage someone NOT to get a gun. The OP may be someone who has never thought about shooting sports, the 2A, etc. Isn't a purpose of this forum to encourage gun ownership/2A support? Regardless of the original reason for getting involved with it?

Now back on topic, I would go with others' advice of trying several out and see what works/feels best. And I'll echo what some others have said about people always recommending small revolvers for women. Not always the best choice.

dirtykid
February 21, 2011, 12:57 PM
save your pennies,, get a S&W air-weight hammerless,, it's worth the price difference,, my wife LOVES hers and much prefer's it over her Glock-27

Onward Allusion
February 21, 2011, 01:59 PM
Remo223 (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=144840)
HUH?

no, no, no. There's no sting in wad cutters. None whatsoever. 32S&W long is about 100 ft-lb muzzle energy. 38special is twice that. Not that muzzle energy means diddly. It's common knowledge 45ACP is approaching the ultimate in self defense stopping power yet muzzle energy for 45ACP 230gr hardball is actually less than 9mm+P.

If you really believe small fast bullets are superior, you should go with a 22 magnum revolver. 300 ft-lb muzzle energy.
Not going to debate you on your felt recoil because it is entirely subjective. What I do know is that many new shooters female and male are adverse to recoil.

I can't count the number of times I've gone into a gun shop and overhear the counter person tell a woman who has never shot a gun that .38 Special Snub is best for protection. What they don't tell them about is the muzzle flip and snappy recoil. This is why I don't recommend anyone buy a gun without first shooting something similar either at a rental range or from a friend/family member. Get something that is uncomfortable to shoot, and the new shooter will not practice with it. If there's no practice, it's questionable as a SD weapon.

I like odd-ball and under appreciated calibers. I think the .32 S&W Long has a place with new shooters who want something more than a 22LR. I've thrown some numbers together courtesy of Handloads.com's online calculator. It clearly shows that the 32S&W L is not as anemic as a lot of people think. I also like that snub revolvers chambered in this cartridge can hold 6 rounds rather than 5.

As for the 22 Mag, the numbers are from rifle length barrels. From a short barrel the bullet hovers around 100 ft lb give or take.

Nushif
February 21, 2011, 02:59 PM
Call me paranoid, but dare I say that the OP had said something along the lines of "I'm uncomfortable in a high risk clinic working without security, what should I do" she might have received a warmer welcome.

When I read the first replies about someone (especially an oh so vulnerable woman) being dissuaded from arming themselves I was a bit surprised.

So I do maintain: Get some some training, check the rules, buy a gun in any case. Even if you can't carry it. Welcome to gun ownership.

stanmo
February 21, 2011, 04:50 PM
My GF started with a LCP, although a fine choice the recoil was more than she was comfortable with. I bought a stainless Beretta 21A .22 cuz it was a good deal. She tried it at the range and fell in love with it, so it's hers now and sold the LCP.
A face full of Stingers should be cause for someone to rethink an attack.

makarovnik
February 21, 2011, 05:38 PM
P3AT or similar, Kahr micro nine, Beretta Bobcat in .25acp.

cz75bcrazy
February 21, 2011, 05:41 PM
theres a lot of them for under 300 you could get a cz 52, cz 82, hi point (any of them), there are some wheel guns new for under that price to.

Skinsanity
February 21, 2011, 06:06 PM
OK Marie....So this wasnt your friendliest welcome to a gun forum. Unlike others, I will assume you have the knowledge of using a gun safely and proficiently. If you don't, please take the advice from some of the others and find someone who can familiarize yourself with them before looking into buying one. This can be either formal training or informal, but make sure its with someone who knows their stuff, many gun stores will have information on affordable concealed weapon classes in your area.

As for the weapon itself, where I understand the need for concealment in your situation, dont get something based solely on that. Get a gun that will do what is intended and figure out how you are going to carry it, then dress accordingly. As far as your purse, most no-gooders will not wait for you to dig your pistol from your purse. Get a purse designed for this that will allow ready access in a hurry if needed.

Where the cartridge is concerned, you need to figure out what your recoil threshold is..my fiance is 5'4" tall and weighs 135 , and has no problem shooting a colt commander in .45acp, and I have talked to at least one large man who said a 9mm kicked too hard..Recoil is NOT a standard thing, some people can handle more or less than others. The best thing to do is test fire a few different models and different calibers and get the largest caliber you are comfortable with shooting. A .380 will do the job if need be, but if you can handle a 9mm, .40, or .45, get on of those. The point of armed engagement is to neutralize whatver is threatening you in as short of time as possible. a revolver should not be ruled out either as they are inherantly more reliable and simpler to operate, but your caliber choices are more limited.

Do not let the gun store proprieter tell you what you need. Stay away from any Jennings, bryco, davis or raven names, these pistols are of low quality and will not be reliable.

Practice Practice Practice...Shoot it and clean it as often as time and budget will allow. Dont get the gun and let it sink to the bottom of your purse forgotten until the moment you need it. Again, the name of the game is instant incapacitation of the threat, and the more you practice, the better the chance of you getting rounds on the target before something bad happens.

Its unfortunate that we live in a world where we require firearms for self defense, but I thank god we live in a country that allows us to do so, for the forseeable future at least.

Good luck and I hope that helped some...

CZguy
February 21, 2011, 07:11 PM
One poster suggested that you consider changing jobs and I would second that if in fact bad things have been going on in your clinic. And I think we all know what the subject is here.


Just for those of us who don't know what the subject is...........could you elaborate.

SteveP55419
February 21, 2011, 11:36 PM
She works in a place where they do abortions:

'I work at a womens' medical clinic that has been receiving lots of bad publicity and threats from the local extremist lunatics'.

shootingthebreeze
February 22, 2011, 09:13 AM
Again, having a firearm at a clinic may not be allowed in Marie's state. Check the CPL requirements.

As a nurse, days go by as no carry days for me. Cannot carry in a hospital setting in MI.

Secondly, what are the employer's rules relating to firearms at the work place even if firearms were allowed in the clinic. Most employers have a zero tolerance for firearms in the work place.

Manco
February 22, 2011, 10:51 PM
* .38 Special snub revolvers are NOT good for the newbie shooter regardless of how much the local gun store clerk recommends it as a "women's gun". Recoil is uncomfortable even for me who shoots a few hundred rounds of 9mm & 40 S&W every week. It's not the caliber that is bad, it is the light weight of the gun that generates the felt recoil.

You make a good case for .32 caliber revolvers, but how do you feel about heavier steel-framed .38 Special (actually .357 Magnum) snubbies such as the S&W Model 640 or Ruger SP101? Those typically weigh about 23-25 oz as opposed to the ubiquitous 15 oz Model 642 Airweight (and they would be more comparable to .32 revolvers in this regard). I wouldn't recommend shooting .357 Magnum loads out of these, but .38 Special should be significantly more manageable than in the Airweights.

.38 Special Cowboy loads have about half as much energy than a strong .32 S&W Long cartridge

.38 Special Cowboy loads are typically 158 grain LRN bullets moving at or close to 800 fps, which gives them about 224 ft-lb of energy. I'd say that it would be a challenge to get 224 ft-lb, let alone 448 ft-lb, out of a .32 S&W Long round.... :scrutiny: The Cowboy loads that you're talking about must be really weak and not worthy of consideration for defensive purposes. Sure, you can pick and choose guns and ammo to make a point, but so can everybody else.

AND a strong .32 S&W Long load has almost the same energy as a target/range round of .38 Special.

.32 S&W Long can potentially approach the energy of light target/range .38 Special, but the latter will still have greater momentum. I do think that .32 S&W Long can get sufficient penetration to be considered effective regardless, but then again so can .22 LR with the right loads. The question is which trade-off between bullet diameter, recoil, and capacity one finds to be optimum in a small-frame revolver: .357"/5 rounds, .312"/6 rounds, or .223"/8 rounds.

As for the 22 Mag, the numbers are from rifle length barrels. From a short barrel the bullet hovers around 100 ft lb give or take.

Along the same lines, as for the S&B .32 S&W Long load that you've referenced, that was out of a 6" test barrel--check it out:

http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/pistol-and-revolver-detail.php?ammunition=9&product=65

Out of a snubby or even a 3" barrel, it could lose a couple hundred fps and quite a bit of its energy and momentum.

jbr
February 22, 2011, 11:09 PM
Training/Practice is key. The Taurus TCP738 is comfortable to shoot, accurate and very reasonably priced. Good Speer Gold Dot HP and it wil get someone's attention. It's a gun that most people can fire fairly accurately and rapidly with a little practice. It conceals very easily also. Most if not all of the advice here has merit but there is no substitute for trying a bunch of these and finding the one that shoots best for you. Sometimes it takes me a while to figure out if i like a particular weapon but i usually know instantly the one's i will never like.

Shadow 7D
February 23, 2011, 12:43 AM
Marie1 :
Last Activity: February 20, 2011 02:02 PM

Sorry I won't add anything additional to this thread until the OP shows back up...
smelling a bit like ..........

Onward Allusion
February 23, 2011, 01:13 AM
Manco
You make a good case for .32 caliber revolvers, but how do you feel about heavier steel-framed .38 Special (actually .357 Magnum) snubbies such as the S&W Model 640 or Ruger SP101? Those typically weigh about 23-25 oz as opposed to the ubiquitous 15 oz Model 642 Airweight (and they would be more comparable to .32 revolvers in this regard). I wouldn't recommend shooting .357 Magnum loads out of these, but .38 Special should be significantly more manageable than in the Airweights.


Heavier 38/357 snubs have their place in CC but not home defense. For HD, go with a 4" barrel & +P 38 loads if a revolver is choosen. Keep in mind, that the heavier 38/357's are not a good fit for those where carry weight is a concern.


.38 Special Cowboy loads are typically 158 grain LRN bullets moving at or close to 800 fps, which gives them about 224 ft-lb of energy. I'd say that it would be a challenge to get 224 ft-lb, let alone 448 ft-lb, out of a .32 S&W Long round.... The Cowboy loads that you're talking about must be really weak and not worthy of consideration for defensive purposes. Sure, you can pick and choose guns and ammo to make a point, but so can everybody else.

If you read my chart you will see that I did include Black Hills 158 grain 38 spl cowboy loads. I wasn't trying to hide anything or fudge any numbers. Ten-X is a pretty popular provider of cowboy loads. That's why I'd included them. Yes, their loads are on the weaker side.


.32 S&W Long can potentially approach the energy of light target/range .38 Special, but the latter will still have greater momentum. I do think that .32 S&W Long can get sufficient penetration to be considered effective regardless, but then again so can .22 LR with the right loads. The question is which trade-off between bullet diameter, recoil, and capacity one finds to be optimum in a small-frame revolver: .357"/5 rounds, .312"/6 rounds, or .223"/8 rounds.

Again, did you not read my chart??? I included energy, momentum, and Taylor KO numbers. I think we're in agreement on the energy/capacity issue. It is absolutely a trade-off. A 30 shot Ruger 10/22 Charger will put up a decent fight against a 5 shot 38 snub. ;)


Along the same lines, as for the S&B .32 S&W Long load that you've referenced, that was out of a 6" test barrel--check it out:
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/pistol-...n=9&product=65
Out of a snubby or even a 3" barrel, it could lose a couple hundred fps and quite a bit of its energy and momentum.

You are correct in that S&B does fudge their numbers a bit by using 6" barrels whereas the industry standard is usually 4". The better real-world 32 S&W Long cartridges hover around 130-something ft lb when fired from 4" barrels.

I still stand by my original statement that revolvers chambered in 32S&W Long, 32 H&R Mag, or .327 Fed Mag are better for brand new shooters who are recoil adverse. I also like that it offers 1 additional round out of a similar sized frame.

So, back to the OP...if you are still lurking here... Check out a revolver chambered in 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Mag, or 327 Fed Mag! :)

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