Hi-Point ?????


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Werewolf
January 4, 2004, 03:57 PM
I just got back from the Sooner Gun and Knife show in Oklahoma City. Good show.

One of the things I saw there were a number of dealers selling a brand I'd never heard of - Hi-Point.

The weapons were semiautomatic pistols in 9mm, 380ACP, .40 S&W and .45 ACP.

All sold for between $89 and $149. HUH?????

I actually considered picking up a 9mm just for the hell of it for $89 but then decided against it.

Maybe I'm a snob or have been fooled by marketing whizes but I just didn't believe an $89 pistol could be any good.

But I've been known to be wrong before. So what's the story on Hi-Point. Are they any good?

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Justin
January 4, 2004, 04:01 PM
Tropical Z in 5...4...3...2...

Wildalaska
January 4, 2004, 04:21 PM
sheer unadulterated junk

WildwasteofmoneyAlask

Richard
January 4, 2004, 04:40 PM
Werewolf, I will swim against the tide. Why? Everything I have read says the Highpoint pistols work and if that is all you can afford they are a lot better than nothing. Having said this, I would prefer a Makarov pistol or a used S&W revolver if the price is the same. Regards, Richard :D

yesterdaysyouth
January 4, 2004, 04:43 PM
i always thought the same as these guys but yesterday i got to shoot the 9mm....

at first impression i just wanted to throw it, thinking that would probally be the best way to use it as a defensive weapon...

but i refrained, loaded the mag, racked the slide, and pulled the trigger...

we ran 150 rnds through it without a misfunction... and it was accurate as well...

but lord was that the ugliest gun i've ever seen... that big cast slide box thinggy on top of a little plastic grip ... it ain't right...

gunfan
January 4, 2004, 04:44 PM
These pistols are manufactured so that the poor can defend themselves. That being said, if you can afford slightly better, (read, used S&W Model #10, or Makarov) aim higher!

Scott

Adam
January 4, 2004, 05:05 PM
but lord was that the ugliest gun i've ever seen... that big cast slide box thinggy on top of a little plastic grip ... it ain't right...

So you can take a BG by surprise!
"Man give me your money! Huh what you have over there? A space ship?"
"No it's gun and you're dead!"

hansolo
January 4, 2004, 05:12 PM
Tropical Z in 5...4...3...2 ...Justin
--------------------------------------------------------------

Kind of an inside joke; I laughed so hard I have Diet Coke on my t-shirt!








"Will you be my Hi-Point?"

....Tropical Z

CWatson
January 4, 2004, 05:25 PM
I have shot both a 9mm and the 45acp.The 45 was huge and both were ugly as hell but neither had a single malfunction with the several hundred rounds put through each of them.I know niether of the owners of these guns ever cleaned them either yet they still worked.

CW

Werewolf
January 4, 2004, 05:37 PM
Guys, Guys....

Cost is not an issue. I spend more on ammo in a month than a Hi-Point costs but I was - to be honest - shocked that a USA manufactured handgun could be so - shall we say - inexpensive.

I just couldn't believe they could be any good so I wasn't gonna lay down $89 for something that was gonna be little more than a metal brick - no matter how much one has wasting it is surely inappropriate.

I figured for $89 bucks I could get a cheap little 9mm and maybe get my wife to shooting with me (got my eldest daughter as a shooting partner now and a niece but it'd be nice if I could get my wife out to the range with me). Seemed like a good idea and $89 bucks wouldn't have been a big deal if she didn't like it. I could always take it over and use it as a BUG (also all my handguns are .40 and bigger - I've never fired a 9mm though I fired a .38 in the Navy once - a pop gun IMHO - but I'm getting old - less recoil is starting to look better and better).

It seems that on THR most folks seem to think Hi-Points are an OK gun. Over on GlockTalk I did a search and there is a recent thread about Hi-point and most of those guys say they are a POS though there are a few dissenters. The most damning thing I read was that they are very, very difficult to field strip and clean - any comments on that (which is a problem for me as I'm a bit compulsive about cleaning my weapons each and every time I shoot them).

So based on what's been stated so far - it seems as if the Hi-Point probably does what it's designed to do - go bang and put metal on target accurately (some dissent about that) - it just doesn't do it elegantly.

I've never seen a Hi-Point for sale at any of the gun shops I frequent (which is why I never heard of one I guess) so the next time there's a gun show in town I probably will get one.

BryanP
January 4, 2004, 05:44 PM
If you click on search and tell it to look for "Hi-Point" you will see 304 topics (including this one) that include that phrase. There's been plenty of discussion about them. There's the usual "It's a cheap POS, don't buy it" vs "They're OK for the money, serviceable at least."

If self defense was my purpose I'd rather put the $89 towards a used shotgun. But that's me. I certainly wouldn't turn one down in a pinch. I have to admit, if they put out their carbine in .45ACP (it's currently only in 9mm) I'll probably buy one.

hksw
January 4, 2004, 06:48 PM
My inital toughts of the Hi-Points (actually their predecessors), I was not impressed with them. I figured, as cheap as they were, they probably worked as well as Jennings, Ravens, etc., i.e., they work for a magful for three then have some type of major structural failure rendering them useless. Maybe a step higher than the pocket guns but no higher (well below the performace of say a SIG or HK). Didn't think much of them, didn't really hate them but surely didn't like them.

Then the internet came along. When attending a few gun forums, it was found (at least by me) that the HPs were either love or hate, very little in between. It seemed to to me that the folks who loved them (for the most part) were the ones actually owning them and the haters were the folks that couldn't get past their crudeness (appearance), simplicity (in function), and less than easy operation (small slide lock, requires tool for take down, etc.

Wanting to see for myself what all the hubbub was all about, I went out and got one (compensated 9mm). In short, mine shoots almost every time I squeezed the trigger. (Two failures to feed in ~1800 rounds. Has been sidelined for awhile due to other guns purchased since.) The slide is a bit stiff to work since it is a simple blowback action, trigger is a bit heavy, etc. but for ~$125 I wasn't expecting SIG P210 quality.

I would probably choose some other gun in my small collection but I wouldn't be concerning if it was the only one I had to use. Working the stiff slide might be an issue for your wife.

greyhound
January 4, 2004, 07:02 PM
What about just to plink with? I'd spend $89 to get a pistol in a caliber I don't already have, knowing that there may be some issues with reliability I probably wouldn't trust my life on it. But for just using at the range, hey thats got to be OK.

Plus, isn't there some rule of thumb that if you've put X number of rounds through without a malf its OK for self defense? (Though maybe these Hi Points are so unpredictable that that rule doesn't apply....)

denfoote
January 4, 2004, 07:50 PM
They may have gotten better in recent years. The esteemed Mr Z seems to think so, but I'm not going to present any more of my hard earned money to a dealer to find out and get laughted at in the process!! ;)

Do a search on the phrase "free high point" to see where my ex High point currently resides!! :evil:

cornbread2
January 4, 2004, 08:13 PM
There are just too many other guns you can buy that WILL be accurate and reliable and last you a lifetime.

There are several military surplus pistols and several quality used revolvers one can buy for about what you would spend on a Highpoint.

Being short on cash is no excuse to buy a Highpoint.

tomkatz
January 4, 2004, 08:13 PM
Denfoote.......I was just trying to remember who had the hi point they loved so much they threw it away, thanks for jogging my memory:D .....tom

wardog
January 4, 2004, 08:22 PM
I've never shot one, but I don't care to.

For just a little more money, I think there are better choices, like a Bulgarian Mak, a Star BM, or a used S&W revolver. These can be had for $150-$200 and can be concealed and carried ready-to-go safely. Not sure the same can be said for the High Point.

Trebor
January 4, 2004, 10:11 PM
When I took my NRA Instructor's class, my training counselours had 9mm and .40 S&W Hi Points that they used for part of the range portion. They said they bought the guns to learn more about them since they'd had students bring Hi Points to the classes in the past. They said that, in their experience, the Hi Points had turned out to be surprisingly reliable and accurate and they really hadn't had any problems.

When I got my instructor's certs, one of the first things I did was call all the gun companies to get copies of the owner's manuals for various guns, especially those I'd never fired myself, just to learn more about what my students might bring to my classes. When I called Hi Point, I wound up talking to the owner of the company, who sent me out the ONE-Page owner's manual. He was curious as to why I even wanted it as he said the gun was designed to be simple to operate and wasn't supposed to be dissassembled and cleaned until 1,000 rounds had been fired. He said that before that, just to spray gun scrubber in the gun once in awhile.

I haven't had any students with Hi Points yet, but I have had a few that probably would have been better off if they had, based on the amount of problems they had with malfunctions in the class.

Okiecruffler
January 4, 2004, 10:37 PM
I know one place in town where you can pick up a High Point for a mere $229. (any Okies care to guess where?) I'm looking seriously at the carbine, was going to get a Keltec, but the High point fits me better and the sights seem to be better. They are ugly, what we used to call a "moped gun" (alot of fun to play with, just as long as no one sees you), but alot of people seem to be happy with theirs, while alot of other people say "never had one, never will".

BTW, how was the gunshow? I meant to go, but got stuck in a bad web of hunydo's.

XavierBreath
January 5, 2004, 01:14 AM
I've never owned one, but from what I understand, it's one of the few pistols you can justify tossing into the bottom of your toolbox or tacklebox. I also understand that it will ge bang when you pull the trigger.

You know, over on the Springfield forum a fellow is shooting a Mil-Spec without cleaning or lubing it until it fails. He's at around 1500 rounds now I think. Maybe I should get a $89 HiPoint and do the same and see if we can dispell some rumors one way or the other..................

JimJD
January 5, 2004, 01:44 AM
You know, over on the Springfield forum a fellow is shooting a Mil-Spec without cleaning or lubing it until it fails. He's at around 1500 rounds now I think.

Yup that's Garymac you're talking about. Because of something that has happened over at that forum, He stated that He is going to stop reporting on that test and at His request the thread has been locked.
At last count He made it to 3300 rounds. Too bad, it would have been nice to see how far it would have gone.

But back to the Hi-Points...
I held one at the last gun show I attended. Yes, it is ugly. Yes, it is top heavy. etc, etc. But if it goes bang when you need it to, that's a good thing.
I am wondering about something though. A fellow at one of My local gun stores says the slide and small parts are made of steel. But according to what I've read here at the forum, it's not. It's cast zinc alloy.
So, anyone here know for sure? I'm thinking it's alloy. especially for that price.

BTW, a cousin of mine has moved into a bad part of Tampa with His girlfriend and has almost no money to spare for a firearm. He said He's thinking about getting a Hi-Point .380 or 9MM model. I think He might be better off saving up some more and go for something used, etc. . But then He came back saying He believes someone has tried to break in already.
In that case, maybe He should get the pistol.
What would you do? I think it might be better to have something rather than nothing in this case.

Okiecruffler
January 5, 2004, 11:47 AM
Hard to defend yourself with a jar full of nickels you were saving to buy a better gun. If I were him I'd get the Hi-Point, then start saving for a better gun.

cratz2
January 5, 2004, 12:33 PM
I've shot HiPoints in 9mm and 45ACP (friends with relatively low round counts, not rentals) and I think I might have had two failures in 45... Never one in 9.

They are quite unattractive but in my opinion and experience (not calling it a POS because other guys have done so) they are reliable. If someone needed a relatively inexpensive handgun with which they were to defend themselves at home with, I wouldn't have an extreme reservation to recommending one. Though I would probably strongly suggest to keep the round count low... Probably buy it, clean and lube it, shoot it 100 times, clean and lube it, shoot it 100 more times, clean and lube it, load it and basically forget about it until it is needed.

The reservation I would have to using one to introduce a new shooter using one is if said shooter ever wanted to use a firearm for anything other than purely for sport, a failure might not inspire extreme confidence... If introducing a shooter to shooting for protection (home or CCW) I would rather through in another $150 or $200 and get something like a Taurus PT92, EAA Witness or CZ75.

For low priced shooting fun AND something that is known to be supremely reliable and low cost, I'd probably consider something like a Bulgarian Mak.

Pheonix
January 5, 2004, 12:46 PM
There are two problems with HI Points.

1. Too heavy and bulky for most people to CCW.
2. Not the sexiest looking tool.

What do I think? Go buy one! Dirt cheap, super reliable, excellent warranty and accurate enough. Throw it in the trunk, drop it off your (4 wheeler, motorcycle, etc.) or drop it off a cliff and you are not out much cash for scratching your gun.

Tropical Z
January 5, 2004, 01:07 PM
My Hi-Point has the same reliability record as my Bulgarian Makarovs.This means one of two things.
1.Makarovs are unreliable junk and should be disposed of ASAP!
2.Hi-Points are reliable shooters and a great bargain for the money!
Your pick.

Tropical Z
January 5, 2004, 01:10 PM
And by the way,SOME of you are TERRIBLE!!!;)

JimJD
January 5, 2004, 01:26 PM
Tropical Z, I'm wondering... About how many rounds have you put through your Hi-point?
What's the slide made of? Some type of zinc alloy, or steel?

Tropical Z
January 5, 2004, 01:31 PM
Also,they are not the easiest handgun to field strip the FIRST time.They are also difficult to reassemble the FIRST time.This is especially true if you dont follow directions and neglect to dry fire it before disassembly."WWWWWWoooooooooOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Crawl around on hands and knees looking for who knows what!"
Luckily,you REALLY dont need to disassemble them but every 1000-1500 rounds.A "normal" Hi-Point cleaning for me consists of running patches through the barrel and then running a Hoppes soaked patch all around the chamber area and up and down and all around the mag well.My first attempt at reassembly required a phone call to the factory where a nice but frustrated tech finally gave me a mental picture i could use.
Hi-Points RRRRRRRUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
Also,they have THE best warranty in the business!

JimJD
January 5, 2004, 01:41 PM
I just called MKS for the heck of it.
First off, I want to say they were very helpful and nice to boot.
I was told the slide is composed of zinc-aluminum. Barrel is composed of 4140 steel. Internal metal parts are steel, they were'nt sure what type of grade though.
It was mentioned that if a pistol had to be sent in for repair, they send an extra magazine back with the gun to offset the shipping cost.
Not bad...:)

Tropical Z
January 5, 2004, 01:45 PM
They do have a cast non-steel slide.It is non magnetic.I couldnt tell you how many rounds i have through mine as i couldnt tell you how many rounds any of my guns have through them.I dont really pay that much attention (which is bad from a recoil spring standpoint).It does go with me every time i shoot and probably gets at least 50-100 rounds through it each time.I field stripped it the first time at about 500 rounds and wont do that again for another 500 rounds or so.Ive owned it for three years now and shoot regularly.Im not a 1000 rounds a month guy however.The only time ive ever had an issue with it was using Winchester white box which will cause an occasional stovepipe.WWB also causes occasional stovepipes in my CZ-75 and FEG FP9 as well as my TZ99 so i dont blame the gun but rather the true culprit which is the ammo.

JimJD
January 5, 2004, 01:51 PM
Tropical Z, What.... No Wolf ammo? :D
I have to admit, I almost want to get one for the car. Maybe put it through a torture test of sorts.
Would it be eaiser to clean the wole thing with some CLP?
I do believe I'm going to tell My cousin to read the posts here on the HighRoad about the Hi-Point.

Tropical Z
January 5, 2004, 02:05 PM
Ive actually shot quite a bit of Wolf through it, without incident by the way!

TonyB
January 5, 2004, 02:14 PM
Don't take this the wrong way....but I think a Hi=point would make a good bathroom gun.....I've been thinking that the only time I'm not armed is in the morning when I take my shower.....so I've been thinking about a bathroom gun...something to leave in there and not worry about rust or corrosion.....maybe an $89 gun is the way to go....I think there's room for all kinds of guns...as long as they're safe......:cool:

WonderNine
January 5, 2004, 04:44 PM
I once saw a Hi-Point go 5 rounds without jamming to the point of being unusable. Hi-Point truly makes fine pistols!




Life is too short for ugly guns.

bfox
January 6, 2004, 02:12 AM
I have a polymer one in .45
Had to try one after hearing so much on this forum.
I have better guns but had to see HP for myself .
Tropical Z was right
Mine shoots fine and pretty accurate .
Have around a 1000 of my reloads threw it.

They sure do tick a lot of you off and I get a kick out of reading your posts

Its a gun I like it . Bill

Tropical Z
January 6, 2004, 09:57 AM
I also get a kick out of seeing how riled up people get about Hi-Points.:D
Remember,theyre accurate because they are blowbacks and have that fixed barrel.According to another THR member there is an article about their .45acp in the current issue of combat handguns! Hope they give it a fair review.

ssteven1
January 6, 2004, 02:09 PM
Check out this website. This guy uses a hi-point to compete. he has 6500 though his :D The link (http://www.geocities.com/edthedeviant/fireoverhp.htm)

G1FAL
January 6, 2004, 02:38 PM
One word: CRAP

For $20 more you can get a CZ-52.

I wont make the mistake of buying ANYTHING that says Hi Point on it again. Then again, I wont own anything that I wouldnt be willing to use if my life depended on it, either. If all you want to do is shoot cans, then I guess the Hi Point would be an OK choice.

But after what I went thru with the 9mm carbine, I wont ever buy any of their crap again.

TonyB
January 6, 2004, 02:45 PM
My step-son has the 9mm carbine and has had no problems with it so far...as long as he keeps it lubed it doesn't jam...:cool:

JimJD
January 6, 2004, 05:21 PM
G1Fal said:
But after what I went thru with the 9mm carbine, I wont ever buy any of their crap again.

Ok, I guess you got a lemon. I hope you understand your particular experience is not true of all Hi-Points. I'm not crazy about them, but most seem to work, and work well I might add.
You could have had the same thing happen with any firearm.
These firearms fill a need in a niche market. Better than the other ones out there such as bryco, davis, etc.

emann
January 6, 2004, 09:53 PM
Mine is the .380 compact and it has been perfectly reliable through the 1000 rounds I've shot through it so far. I called them once about getting a new part after I scuffed it up by dropping the gun and they sent me the new part and a Hi-Point t-shirt free of charge.

cornbread2
January 6, 2004, 10:01 PM
For what you paid for your POS Highpoint and 1,000 rounds of .380 you could have bought a real gun you can carry safely and NEVER have to question it's quality.

emann
January 6, 2004, 10:36 PM
You're reading skills are obviously as elementary as your attitude. I don't carry my Hi-Point nor question it's quality. I also have a few higher dollar guns in my collection as you should've been able to figure out from my sigline (hint: there's one of them mentioned). Now get back to doing your homework, after all school's back in session. ;)

Tropical Z
January 6, 2004, 10:41 PM
:rolleyes:
Hi-Points have manual AND passive safeties.

cornbread2
January 6, 2004, 11:20 PM
It is strange that you post about manaul and passive safeties on the highpoint but you fail to see and understand the lack of an important safety system on the Steyr.

Tropical Z
January 6, 2004, 11:24 PM
:confused:
I havent bought a Steyr partly because of the wondering if its truly a safe gun to own.I have NO fears that my Hi-Point may go off at any second without my consent.I doubt that a Steyr would either as the majority of the evidence says that the part in question is extremely overbuilt.

G1FAL
January 7, 2004, 12:27 AM
Ok, I guess you got a lemon.

I wish such were the case. (well, not really, but it sounded good)

The sheriff's office in the county I live in has the Hi Point carbines for their SRT. They were free, so its not like they wasted money buying the damned things. One of the guys was test firing his, and the bolt handle flew off and busted him in the mouth. They also had several other problems with them, that was just the worst one.

My experience is not an isolated incident. Luckily, I just couldnt stand it because it required special tools and half an evening to disassemble for cleaning. I never had parts fly off with enough force to break skin.

cornbread2
January 7, 2004, 10:00 AM
TZ

My post was not designed to offend you and I hope you did not take it that way.

I just could not see how you can understand one design and not the other.

Tropical Z
January 7, 2004, 11:56 AM
Some people like to put Hi-Points in the same "this baby will go off when IT wants to"category as the Steyr's.It wont and i sure wish i new for absolute sure the Steyr wouldnt either.If i was certain id own one!

BHPshooter
January 7, 2004, 06:59 PM
My Hi-Point has the same reliability record as my Bulgarian Makarovs.This means one of two things.
1.Makarovs are unreliable junk and should be disposed of ASAP!
2.Hi-Points are reliable shooters and a great bargain for the money!
Your pick.

Wow. That says a lot. Maybe I will recommend one to my cheap-@$$ friend, after all. It sure would be nice to have a shooting buddy that actually had a handgun. :rolleyes:

Wes

Walt Sherrill
January 8, 2004, 09:27 AM
A gun dealer I respect -- and who sells thousands of guns a year out of a relatively small shop -- says that the Hi-Point is the only cheap gun he'll carry.

He's sold darned near everything over the years and says there is a surprising demand for guns in the $100 range.

He doesn't particularly like Hi-Points and wouldn't use one himself, but he says they are the only cheap guns that don't come back...

There's no emotion involved in his opinions or attitudes about Hi-Points: just dollars and cents.

9 m&m
January 10, 2004, 06:07 PM
I have got a Hi-Point carbine and one of their 9mm pistols. both are excellent guns and i have had no trouble with either one.

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