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sheepdog96
February 21, 2011, 09:15 PM
Ive really been debating this one. I want to pick up a handgun for carry. Ive got my eyes on two main choices. The G19 and a Keltec PF9. I have different reasons for both. My main concern is I will be relocating to Central FL in about a month or two. That is the main reason I havent just ordered the G19 and been done with it. I like the PF9 because is fits in the budget perfectly, seems to be a great option for summer carry and seem from what I have read, reliable. The G19 fits in the budget as well with my discount but seems a tad bit chunky for CCW in the Florida summer months.

Can any southerners chime in here? I dont want to have a uncomfortable CCW in the middle of summer in FL. Im 6'2 and weigh 200 lbs if it makes any differece. Just want to get some more experienced opinions on the topic!

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armoredman
February 21, 2011, 09:21 PM
Get a good holster with sweat shield and have done with it, won't matter an extra 1/8 inch or not. In Florida a holster with either a moisture barrier or made of Kydex might be appropriate, especially if you get the Glock - plastic begets plastic, but it will wear the finish. Our G-19s are 10 years old and showing serious slide finish wear from the Fobus rigs we use.

Lazyshooter
February 21, 2011, 09:30 PM
I don't own the PF9 but I do own the G19. I live in East TN and carry a G19 IWB every day year round with no issues.

Rail Driver
February 21, 2011, 09:33 PM
I live in Tallahassee and have a G19. It's great, especially when compared to my 1911 (I carry the 1911 on all but the hottest days or when I'm going to be near the water or out in the rain, which is when the G19 comes out)

Z-Michigan
February 21, 2011, 09:36 PM
The G19 is very concealable but it also gives you 15 rounds and a frame large enough to shoot accurately. Unless you already own several handguns and specifically want a near-pocket-sized gun, I'd get the G19.

BleysAhrens
February 21, 2011, 09:39 PM
I would love a G19, but the new ones are a bit high priced for me for the moment... Where could I get one of the trade-ins I hear speak of? I think it was about $250 to $400?

sheepdog96
February 21, 2011, 09:47 PM
Wow. Didnt expect all these responses so fast. So the southern guys dont have an problem with concealing the G19? That makes me really tempted to swing toward the side. I really like the overall reliability of the glock.

No one for the PF9? Just watching Nutnfancys video on it and seems like hes a really decent gun.

Tomcat47
February 21, 2011, 09:54 PM
Well......as for me I would add this choice Ruger SR9c....but thats just me?

I am not much on Polymer pistols to start with and...

1) I Dont like any Glocks! ( But now before yall jump on me with all fours..:what:....they are tuff!...still dont like em!)

2) Not much on Kel Tecs but have friends that like them

3) The SR9c has gotten my attention on the Polymer side.

Not really against polymer....it is a great material, I just prefer all steel firearms.

I carry a Taurus PT58 HC most of time, but it can sometimes be a challenge to CCW.

Good luck on your gun shopping!

I also like the look of the new Sig P290 but have not heard any reviews of it?

Sebastian the Ibis
February 21, 2011, 10:03 PM
Concealed Carry is about the holster as much as it is about the gun, a G19 gives you an enormous array of holster options. I've tried a bunch and settled on the Comp-tac. I'm 6'2 220 and can easily conceal the g19 anywhere except the beach and the tailors. I live in Miami and carry the g19 year round.

The Kel-tech can be a fine weapon too, however you don't have anywhere near as many holster options, or other aftermarket doodads.

Eitherway you have some excellent training options in central Florida. I'm jealous, I wish I could still train with J.J. Kelley every month.

Sebastian the Ibis
February 21, 2011, 10:06 PM
Where could I get one of the trade-ins I hear speak of? I think it was about $250 to $400?

Check out Lou's police supply in Miami. They get them in all the time and sell them for $3-400 depending on your luck, quality, model etc.

sheepdog96
February 21, 2011, 10:09 PM
Tomcat, I will look into that Taurus. I havent looked into it before but looks pretty sweet!

The Lone Haranguer
February 21, 2011, 10:18 PM
I carried the same gun in Phoenix, AZ, which is plenty hot (but it was a dry heat :p).

sheepdog96
February 21, 2011, 10:20 PM
Concealed Carry is about the holster as much as it is about the gun, a G19 gives you an enormous array of holster options. I've tried a bunch and settled on the Comp-tac. I'm 6'2 220 and can easily conceal the g19 anywhere except the beach and the tailors. I live in Miami and carry the g19 year round.

Yea. Im new to CCW so although I did know that holsters are important, I did not think about the lack of holsters for other firearms. To be honest the G19 has been the #1 choice this whole time but someone swayed me towards a smaller profile gun for the Florida climate. With so many people recommending the G19 maybe thats the way I will go. It also would be a great home defense gun with the options for rails, lights, etc.


Any other recommendations? I had thought about a PPS but when I watched my cousin-in-laws completely fail multiple times and then break it ruled it out for me.

jon86
February 21, 2011, 10:22 PM
Why does it have to be between these two?

Have you considered a glock 26?
Kahr CW9?
Ruger LC9?

armoredman
February 21, 2011, 10:28 PM
I don't like Glock either, only polymer pistol I like is my CZ SP-01 Phantom, but he asked about Glocks. :) Good solid holster and belt will make a huge difference no matter what gun you are carrying.

sheepdog96
February 21, 2011, 10:29 PM
Why does it have to be between these two?

Have you considered a glock 26?
Kahr CW9?
Ruger LC9?

Yea. I owned a G26 a while back and although I liked it, It just felt weird in my hand with the finger extension. Maybe it was because I was an utter-noob but it just didnt feel right. The CW9 has been on the list as well but it is just a little out of the price range for now.

Z-Michigan
February 21, 2011, 10:35 PM
I'll second a look at the Ruger SR9c. I got to play with and dry-fire one in a gunstore and was quite impressed (and I have extensive trigger time with G19, M&P9c, and XD9sc). Trigger was very good, size/shape was slim and appeared easy to conceal. I don't much like the "magazine safety" or lock, but could probably live with those features. They seem to go for a little over $400 and are quite competitive at that price.

sheepdog96
February 22, 2011, 08:50 AM
Wow. This SR9 and SR9c are really making their way to the to of the list. Seems like it is extremely thin. I also like the fact thst it has ambidextrous controls. I am a lefty but have trained my self to shoot right handed just because most guns I get to use are right handed. Being able to train both right and left handed seem like a huge bonus. I also like thst you can ads the magazine extension on anf make the grip a full size.

460Kodiak
February 22, 2011, 02:49 PM
Ok, I've got a suggestion that is going to come way out of left field. I have been carrying a Ruger SP101 for a couple of years now, and I found it a tad hard to conceal in summer time with my in the pants holster due to wearing lighter clothes. It works great in fleece or sweatshirt wearing months though.

I decided I wanted a pocket pistol though, and was leaning heavily toward a Walther PPK. Then I suddenly had a change of heart. I was looking at Walthers in a local gun shop, when I spied a Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV. If you aren't familiar, then you should check out their website. I actually went with the derringer! They are thin and drop in the pocket easily enough. You can also get an in the pocket holster from Bond. They are all stainless steel so moisture ruining the finish shouldn't be an issue. They fire .45 colt and based on the model, can fire 2.5 or 3" 410 shot shells. When I carry mine, I keep the top barrel loaded with a 3" shell that contains 9 pellets of #4 buckshot, and the lower one loaded with a 3" shell that has 5 pellets of 000 buckshot. I know you only get 2 shots, but you can sling a lot of lead with those two shots. It's like having a double barreled shotgun in your pocket.

I know a lot of people are probably going to jump on me and tell you I am an idiot. That's fine. I'm just sharing, and if anyone disagrees, you are entitled to your opinion.

The snake slayer takes some getting used to, and a lot of practice, and I really mean[B] a lot[B]. At short range you are going to be able to lay some serious hurt on someone or something trying to do you harm. In fact, you would shred their insides, so keep that in mind. I will note that the short barrel does a poor job of stabilizing .45 colt slugs, but works good with shot shells. I also admit that this gun is quite ineffective at a range of 25 feet or more. But most situations where you need a gun take place much closer than that.

Now I live in a sparsly populated area, so chances of collateral damage, and a bad encounter at all, are very slim. If you will be living in a more heavily populated area, this would be a bad idea. For me, the two main threats are from groups of uneducated, poor, gang member when I choose to go to the city (so hitting more than one target in one trigger pull is a plus since they move in packs), and the other is mountain lions. And in that situation, I likely have my .357 or .40 cal on me. Though there is a definate plus to having devastating destructive power in the first trigger pull.

I believe #4 Buckshot is about .24 caliber and 000 buckshot is about .36 caliber. So imagine if only 1/3rd of the pellets hit the target on either shell! It would drop an angry man or critter in it's tracks. I suspect the 000 buck would stop a gator, though I don't know if you could get a shot off in time to save your leg. They're fast! LOL

It's just a thought. Feel free to ignore it.

Oh yeah, you can also get different barrels for this gun in many different calibers for not a lot of money, and extended grips as well.

Let the "YOU ARE A FOOL!!!!!" rants begin!

mgmorden
February 22, 2011, 03:07 PM
I'm in South Carolina where it can get pretty warm too - not Florida warm, but within that same ballpark :). I only carry two ways: OWB belt holster on strong side, or pocket carry.

Thing is, I use different guns for these two purposes. The PF9 has always seemed a bit big for pocket carry. I don't own one so I've not tried it, but having looked at and handled them before, I just don't think I could pocket carry it. I currently have a Ruger LCP that I use for pocket carry and *for me*, it's about my size limit there.

Now, for belt carry, I don't like the tiny little guns like the PF9. I want something a little bigger to hold on to, and in reality it's not grip length, but gun width that will be your issue there. I'd go for something single-stack, and with a slightly longer grip. The Kahr CW9 is perfect there and will likely be what I move to for that in the future (currently I use a SIG P6 in an IMI Defense plastic retention holster - it's a single stack, but a bit wider than the Kahrs). Something like that would work well, though admittedly you're not talking about a HUGE width difference between a Kahr and a Glock, but it IS a difference.

BTW, though I tend to only carry this way in the winter under a jacket, you can carry this way year round if you want. In the summer instead of the jacket, just use a long button-up shirt (left unbuttoned) instead with the sleeves rolled up, or wear a very light vest - though with vests being somewhat less fashionable now than in the past, apparently it's fairly common knowledge that most people use them to concealed carry. I know one guy who refers to them somewhat affectionately as "shoot me first vests" :).

EDIT: Just saw this bit you posted:

The CW9 has been on the list as well but it is just a little out of the price range for now.

The CW9 is available from Buds for around $370 shipped right now. That puts it at cheaper than the Glock 19 you're considering.

Shadow 7D
February 22, 2011, 03:11 PM
Look up BOBO's handgun chart,
Check out Mouseguns.com
lots of info on this

memphisjim
February 22, 2011, 03:19 PM
The pf9 is slimmer for sure but still a holster gun not a pocket one. So a good holster and the glock would be my pick

Z-Michigan
February 22, 2011, 04:18 PM
460Kodiak - have you chrono'd the buckshot and patterned it at 10 feet? I strongly suspect you will find it's moving very slow (as in may not penetrate heavy winter clothing slow) and that the pattern is still fairly small.

G19G36
February 22, 2011, 04:20 PM
I was in Florida for 7 years and never was successful hiding my G19 with only a T-shirt and cargo shorts. Did OK when I had jeans and a decent belt on, but the shorts always gave me grief. I prefer IWB carry in variety of 3, 4, and 5 O'clock positions with a couple of different holster choices.

I had a Kahr (CW9) that did OK, and then a Ruger LCP which did well also. But I wasn't content with a .380, and the Kahr gave me grief once in a while when my thumb would smack the mag-release (during recoil). I lost faith with the Kahr because of that happening to me at the range (much more than once or twice) so I was always second-guessing my EDC.

I'm now in Georgia, and did a two-gun trade (my LCP & Kahr) for a G36 with zero-dollars out of pocket. The G36 hides better than my G19, but both have their turns with my EDC depending on where I'm going and how I dress.

Both the G19 & G36 have worked flawlessly with whatever brand of ammo I can put my hands on, never had a malfunction. I have high confidence in my Glocks doing their job if ever necessary. For me, it is very important to not have anything gnawing in the back of your head regarding your EDC choice. The G36 (.45 acp) has now given me the ultimate piece of mind with that caliber.

BTW- Most of those 7 years in Florida I was an off-shore charter fishing captain that had my Glock in pretty severe conditions. We're talking salt water spray, fish guts/blood, even a couple of drops/falls to the deck (when I was changing clothes in rolling seas). The G19 always cleaned-up nicely, always functioned (when shooting sharks), and I never worried about AD.

Shadow 7D
February 23, 2011, 03:42 AM
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf

And that will show you most of them side by side

sheepdog96
February 23, 2011, 10:27 AM
Wow. Thanks everyone. This thread has been very informative! How about if I through a FNP-9 into the mix? Found one local for a great price. Seems to be almost exactly the same size of a G19. Has a ton of great reviews and came #2 in Best9mms.com.

ForumSurfer
February 23, 2011, 10:41 AM
I live in NC where it gets hot and humid. A g19 +crossbreed knock off in shorts and a t-shirt works for me.

I'm 5'10", 175lbs with a 32" waist for whatever that's worth.

Chunky? Maybe. But the darn thing has grown on me like a hideous, ugly wart. I have discovered that I shoot well with it, so it is what I carry.

ForumSurfer
February 23, 2011, 10:48 AM
Oh, and for OWB...I really, really like the Raven Concealment Phantom holster. I took a friend's holster for a test drive. As soon as he makes me return it, I'll be ordering one. I am not a fan of OWB holsters, but I love this thing. Plus you can order attachments to make it OWB, pancake OWB or tuckable IWB.

460Kodiak
February 23, 2011, 03:33 PM
Z-Michigan,

I see your point about velocities. I personally think that 000 buckshot, at ten feet, from even a short barrelled gun will penetrate thick clothing (but for me it doesn't matter since I only carry it in summer). That is just a matter of opinion though since I have no Chrono data to back it up, and haven't done any tests on it. I'm sure you are correct that the velocities will be significatly lower than the ammo manufacturers state due to short barrels, and I tip my hat to you. The nice thing though is that several ammo companies are making 410 shells specifically for short barrelled revolvers with the success of the Judge. I imagine that will continue with the new S&W Govenor coming out this year. I have no plans to pick up either gun myself. The Bond Arms derringers are well made, and a fun novelty to own. I do prefer harder hitting loads like the .357 in general. I may pick up a Ruger LCR in .357. Who wants to wear the same clothes every day, right?

I have patterned the 410 at ten feet. The #4 buckshot had about a 10" spread and the 000 buckshot had about a 4.5 inch spread. That's why I keep one of each loaded. I figure the #4 buckshot to increase the initial shock, and 000 if you really need a heavier hit for follow up.

I'm not going to say it's the best carry option in the world, I'm just going to say it is an option.

Granted, it may not be the best carry option

ejnogarb
February 23, 2011, 04:50 PM
Kel-Tec's facilities are located in central Florida (a few miles from where I grew up in Brevard County), so I'm sure the gun is fine for the climate. While I've never personally shot a PF9, I've only heard good things about them.

Thorgrim
February 23, 2011, 10:13 PM
I live in the South, too, but not that far south. I'm a bit over 5'11", about 170#, and I carry a 1911. You need a good holster, and extra good gun belt, and a suitable cover garment. I'm old enough and grey enough that nobody pays much attention if I wear an Aloha shirt or something similar. Hell, I can wear knee socks and sandles and not draw any attention except maybe pity. I can work with that. :)

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