Help me identify this old revolver


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1858remington
February 22, 2011, 02:40 AM
I just bought this at the gunshop. I have always wanted a "bulldog" style revolver, and for $125 i couldn't pass it up.

Its 38 center fire, double action. Has the word "Phoenix" on the top strap. There's a marking on the right side that looks like a circle with a horn under it. The grips have a bird on them.

I can't seem to find any information on maker, or country of origin.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9135/img00047201102211623.jpg
By null (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/null) at 2011-02-21

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1858remington
February 22, 2011, 03:05 AM
A few more pictures:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8562/img00044201102211622.jpg
By null (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/null) at 2011-02-21

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2070/img00045201102211622.jpg
By null (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/null) at 2011-02-21

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4852/img00048201102211624.jpg
By null (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/null) at 2011-02-21

1858remington
February 22, 2011, 06:21 AM
From what I have found on line the word "Phoenix" was used by J.Reid of new york. I cant seem to find any information on J.Reid other than he produced the knuckel duster "my Friend" revolver.

Any information would be appriciated.

Radagast
February 22, 2011, 06:44 AM
James Reid produced spur trigger single action revolvers, his Phenix (per Flayderman's its Phenix not Phoenix) was one of these, so I doubt your gun is one of his products. Unfortunately I can't ID your gun. Good luck!

Magnumite
February 22, 2011, 08:50 AM
There might be a maker stamp or serial number underneath the grips. You may want to check there.

Jim Watson
February 22, 2011, 10:46 AM
The Gun-Data.com listing of cheap revolver brand names shows Phoenix under
"The following names are of unknown makers:"

Maybe somebody will come up with later information.

bannockburn
February 22, 2011, 11:16 AM
The only company that I could find that made revolvers with the name Phoenix was Hopkins and Allen. But I think they would have had their own name somewhere on the gun as well, as they were a fairly well established gunmaker at the time. Actually it looks more like something made in Belgium rather than the U.S.

MikeJackmin
February 22, 2011, 09:48 PM
I think it looks awfully nice. Very elegant lines.

Sport45
February 22, 2011, 11:14 PM
I wish I could see it. From here, it looks like this:

The frog doesn't look too healthy... ;)

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4852/img00048201102211624.jpg

1858remington
February 23, 2011, 09:38 AM
Here are pictures of some of the maker/proof marks

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/921/circlen.jpg
By remington1858 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/remington1858) at 2011-02-23

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5962/gmwithcrown.jpg
By remington1858 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/remington1858) at 2011-02-23

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/6573/unknownmark.jpg
By remington1858 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/remington1858) at 2011-02-23

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6561/ballnhorn.jpg
By remington1858 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/remington1858) at 2011-02-23

bannockburn
February 23, 2011, 10:51 AM
1858remington

I've looked through several books that I have with articles concerning proof marks, as well as some from online sources, and I didn't see any that even came close to the ones on your revolver. I checked them against the proof marks of Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, and Spain. Sorry I couldn't have been of more help.

il_10
February 23, 2011, 01:47 PM
... kyber pass copy of something, perhaps?

waidmann
February 23, 2011, 07:35 PM
Check the rear of the cylinder for Belgian proofs. I've seen similar where the only proofs were found there. I want to see a Belgian *R inspector's mark.

My book lists Phoenix for Tomas de Urizar y Cuba (of Spain) as well as US firms Whitney and Phoenix in Lowell, Mass.

bannockburn
February 23, 2011, 09:55 PM
waidman

I also found the names of Robar et DeKerkhove, Urizar, and the Phoenix Arms Company of Lowell, MA. All of them had guns using the Phoenix name. Unfortunately they all produced or imported .25 caliber semi-autos with that name, not revolvers.

Jim K
February 23, 2011, 10:47 PM
The only use of that horn symbol I can find is as a Spanish proof c. 1910, but the horn is turned the other way. In the period when that gun was made, though, proof in Spain was voluntary and makers usually either used their own marks or didn't bother to do any proving. If I had to bet, it would be on Spain, not the US or Beligium.

I recommend against firing the gun at all, or at least sticking to black powder.

Jim

Deaf Smith
February 25, 2011, 10:45 PM
I bet that gun is in .38 Long Colt.

Looks like a ripoff of the Colt Lighting revolver. Yes Spanish would be my guess as for the maker. They made all kind of 'Ruby' pistols.

Makes a great wall hanger (and if it locks tight, no metal cracks, and the chamber really is made for .38 Long Colt, then it should go bang fine with those loads.)

Deaf

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