What happens to Pistols after-death? MI


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bigalexe
February 23, 2011, 08:47 PM
Question, not regarding myself but some antics of the local PD.

If an individual dies in the State of MI, does the other family members have to go through the Purchase Permit process (No CPL's) in order to take possession?

I ask because the local PD tried to go to a family that had a death recently and confiscate the firearms of the deceased on the grounds that others in the household did not possess permits.

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RETG
February 23, 2011, 09:16 PM
How did the police know there were handguns in the house?

bigalexe
February 23, 2011, 09:20 PM
I don't know. I am also assuming pistols because long-guns are a straight transfer in this state, there are no long-gun "Permits" in MI only Pistol Purchase Permits for anyone not having a CPL. I am guessing if it was NFA stuff then it would be ATF coming to say hello and not local PD.

The guns were not involved in the death in ANY WAY AT ALL.

2WheelsGood
February 23, 2011, 09:26 PM
If an individual dies in the State of MI, does the other family members have to go through the Purchase Permit process (No CPL's) in order to take possession?I'm not positive, so you should check with the police or a lawyer, but in Michigan I believe you have to transfer them the same way you would if you were purchasing them. That means, without a CPL you need to go to the police station, pass a background check, and take a simple multiple choice exam. You need a purchase permit for each of the guns you're transferring. There is no transfer cost.

If you have a CPL, you can print the forms you need from the internet, fill 'em out, and mail them to the police.

Prince Yamato
February 23, 2011, 09:36 PM
What happens to Pistols after-death? MI

They go to pistol heaven... silly!

USAF_Vet
February 24, 2011, 09:13 AM
I'm just guessing here, but I would assume any transfer would still require the appropriate paperwork filed. Otherwise, the guns would be in possession illegally. But I am curious about inheriting hand guns now.

2WheelsGood
February 24, 2011, 09:16 AM
But I am curious about inheriting hand guns now.Me too. My dad and my uncle have some guns that I would LOVE to have. Not that I'm wishing either of them any misfortune, if you know what I mean. :D

USAF_Vet
February 24, 2011, 09:20 AM
2Wheels, I know exactly what you mean. My father in law inherited from his dad a pistol that belonged to Al Capone. He (my FIL's dad) did some work on Capone's house in Holland, MI and that was his payment. I've never seen it, I believe it's in a safe deposit box, but it has all the paperwork with Capone's name on it. I think it has been willed to my step-son, but, god forbid, my FIL passes away before my step-son is 18, my wife or I would have to safeguard it.

Trebor
February 24, 2011, 10:06 AM
The family in question should talk to an attorney. The police confiscating firearms for lack of a pistol permit by the heirs is very unusual for Michigan. I've never heard of anything like that happening before.

My understanding is the deceased Estate is the owner of the guns until they are legally transfered to the heirs, either as outlined in the will or under normal provisions for transfer of assets when there is no will. That implies that the guns can be retained by the Executioner of the estate until the heirs obtain the necessary permits.

In my experience, in practice, most police agencies allow the surviving relatives to apply for the do the paperwork with no problems. Heck, state law even allows those who obtain a handgun 10 days to do the paperwork.

I'm not an attorney and this is not legal advice. The family in the original story should contact an attorney if they are still having problems with the police.

2WheelsGood
February 24, 2011, 10:12 AM
Heck, state law even allows those who obtain a handgun 10 days to do the paperwork.Well, that's partially true. You have 10 days to turn in the paperwork, but you have to go to the police department and get the permit BEFORE you can even obtain one. That pertains to purchasing one, not inheriting one.

Trebor
February 24, 2011, 09:30 PM
Well, that's partially true. You have 10 days to turn in the paperwork, but you have to go to the police department and get the permit BEFORE you can even obtain one. That pertains to purchasing one, not inheriting one.

True. But, people who move into Michigan with their handguns already have the handguns in their possession before they can get a permit to purchase, so there is precedent for the idea that the permit is not always obtained before the gun.

Like I said, the situation as described sounds very unusual for Michigan. The family involved should talk to an attorney if this has not yet been resolved. It should be a relatively straightforward procedure so I wonder why the police where causing problems for the family.

2WheelsGood
February 24, 2011, 09:56 PM
It should be a relatively straightforward procedure so I wonder why the police where causing problems for the family.That's a very good question. No offense to the original poster, but this sounds extremely fishy. Unless they had some legitimate reason, the police don't generally go to someone's house looking for guns to confiscate. Especially legally owned guns passed down in an inheritance. And you state that they "tried" to confiscate the firearms. How were they not successful? Again, no offense, but the more I think about this, the more it seems there's some key detail missing.

geekWithA.45
February 25, 2011, 12:15 AM
What happens to Pistols after-death?

Your servants should bury them with you, along with tools, food, and other things you will need in the afterlife. :neener:

7.62 Nato
February 25, 2011, 12:24 AM
The police have no right to confiscate the guns anymore than they have a right to confiscate any other portion of the deceased estate unless the person in posession is prohibited by law from having them. I would add that the executor to the estate should at least be in contact with an attorney, if they don't have one on retainer.

IANAL, (I don't even like them much).

RDak
February 25, 2011, 06:01 AM
I don't know about all this confiscation stuff being said by the PD, but, the person(s) inheriting the handguns gets a PP from his/her local PD and has the executor fill it out as the seller.

Turn the complete PP forms into the local PD and the gun is the registered to the beneficiary.

I have been an executor on a couple of estates where this was done and there were no problems.

I have no idea why the PD would say they want to confiscate them prior to the person getting a chance to have the executor transfer the handguns legally?

If there is no executor, I think you have to go to your local probate court and have them appoint the next of kin as the executor.

USAF_Vet
February 25, 2011, 08:52 AM
Now what happens if the executor of the estate and the inheritor of the estate are the same person?

RDak
February 25, 2011, 09:46 AM
You would fill out the individual info on yourself as the purchaser and sign your name as executor in the seller's box.

geekWithA.45
February 25, 2011, 09:52 AM
Now what happens if the executor of the estate and the inheritor of the estate are the same person?

That sort of thing happens all the time, shouldn't be a big deal. Remember, the executor has a fiduciary duty to the estate and the law.

Creature
February 25, 2011, 10:03 AM
How did the police know there were handguns in the house?

Good question...

hermannr
February 25, 2011, 02:24 PM
I looked at the MI state law, I guess the "posses" is the section they would have to go on, as there is no "transfer" wording.

It is interesting that the state law states "Shall issue with due speed" unless you are disqualified by the following sections. (This only applies to a "pistol" there is no reference to long guns) MI law 28.422

I would think that the proper thing the LEO should do in the case stated would be to inform the estate that they would have to apply for this permit before the heir could take possession. While the weapon(s) are still in probate, they belong to the estate and are treated as if still belonging to the deceased)

Carl N. Brown
February 25, 2011, 03:23 PM
Another good reason to have a heir or heirs with interest in your guns lined up and properly papered (and not just on the will).

On NFA items: ATF has rules and procedures for inheritence of Title II firearms on NFA registry, and is often tax-free transfer of registration to an NFA eligible heir. Advice from a lawyer familiar with NFA and state and local law would be advisable beforehand. No point in blindly surrendering a collection that is a valuable heirloom.

mgregg85
March 1, 2011, 09:10 PM
My grandpa died and I took possession of his pistol. My grandmother, as executor of his will, had to sign off on the purchase permit paperwork but that was it. I actually didn't know the law at the time(I was only like 10 years old), so my dad held on to the pistol for me until I was 18 years old and then I figured out the rules and registered it. I even told the lady at the law enforcement center that my grandpa had been dead for eight years and she didn't care.

Carl N. Brown
March 6, 2011, 07:05 AM
What happens to Pistols after-death?

I have been fighting the temptation to post a picture of a Taurus Judge with the caption: "The come back as shotguns in the afterlife." :rolleyes:








(I did make a serious on-topic post, see just above.)

langenc
March 7, 2011, 08:34 PM
Wouldnt it be great to get rid of registration??

I dont know of anything good it accomplishes. Possession of unregistered handgun is seldom charged or is the first charge to be 'given away' in any legal proceeding.

Remo223
March 7, 2011, 08:41 PM
I'd tell the cops I'll be sure and let them know if and when I find any firearms. Then close the door.

DammitBoy
March 7, 2011, 08:49 PM
On NFA items: ATF has rules and procedures for inheritence of Title II firearms on NFA registry, and is often tax-free transfer of registration to an NFA eligible heir.

Now if I can just find somebody willing to die and let me inherit their class II firearms. :uhoh:

Anybody?

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