Lethal force against attempt at disarm


PDA






Carbonator
February 24, 2011, 09:07 PM
I posted a thread 3 months ago about the use of lethal force against a person to prevent that person from disarming a CCWer of his own gun:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=558930&highlight=

I just saw a video on Youtube where a guy states: (03:29)
"The Supreme Court has deemed that if somebody attempts to disarm you, that is lethal force authorized because it is already presumed that if they get your weapon from you, they are going to use it against you."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ToJSAkz8R8

More specifically, the guy in the video states that he would use another weapon (his knife) against someone trying to disarm him of his gun.

Does anyone have details about this Supreme Court ruling? Date of ruling, federal/state court, case title etc...

If you enjoyed reading about "Lethal force against attempt at disarm" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
4sooth
February 24, 2011, 09:24 PM
In Louisiana an attempt to disarm a police officer will usually result in attempted second degree murder charges. I see no reason why it should not be the same for an attempt to disarm any lawfully armed person.

Hypnogator
February 24, 2011, 11:25 PM
"The Supreme Court has deemed that if somebody attempts to disarm you, that is lethal force authorized because it is already presumed that if they get your weapon from you, they are going to use it against you."

I call BS on this one. I teach judgmental use of force, and am aware of no such decision. However, it is logical, and a defense based on this logic would possibly prevail.

bigfatdave
February 25, 2011, 12:08 AM
"The Supreme Court has deemed ... ...

[Citation Needed]

dayid
February 25, 2011, 12:17 AM
In my state, you may shoot for aggravated battery and aggravated assault. Attempting to disarm me will most likely result in both.

I've found no court cases (not even non-supreme court cases) in my precursory search that cover this directly.

You can be sure that if someone is attempting to steal anything from me, they will most likely meet my firearm. While (in my state) that is not justification to shoot - it is justification to detain them until authorities arrive.

USAF_Vet
February 25, 2011, 08:53 AM
dayid, which state is that if you don'y mind my asking?

smince
February 25, 2011, 09:40 AM
More specifically, the guy in the video states that he would use another weapon (his knife) against someone trying to disarm him of his gun.That would be my plan as well.

Carbonator
February 25, 2011, 03:43 PM
Does this ruling (if it exists) apply to police officers only or CCW citizens as well? I believe the guy in the video was an officer.

A persecuting attorney could make the argument that because I was able to draw my weapon and shoot the offender, I had control and possession of the gun at that exact moment, and therefore the offender was not disarming me.

Attempt to disarm could also fall into the category of attempted robbery (robbing you of your gun), assault and/or attempted assault (physical contact), which in some states can be met with lethal force.

dayid
February 25, 2011, 04:02 PM
dayid, which state is that if you don'y mind my asking?
Florida considers both aggravated assault and aggravated battery to be forcible felonies. Any forcible felony in FL is justifiable grounds to use deadly force. It is in other states as well - but I am not up to date with all other states definition of forcible felony, standing ground, nor their deadly force doctrines.

So, to clarify: attempting to rob (out in public) is not a forcible felony (without assault and/or battery - which most likely will occur during the robbery). The drawing of a weapon in Florida is not deadly force. Thus - if I hold you at gunpoint while waiting for police to arrive - I am not using deadly force. Now, if you decide to call my bluff and stand up and run - I still cannot shoot - but I do not know many people that would tape that risk. If (the person assaulting me and robbing me) were found completely innocent - I may be tried for false imprisonment - but not for the use of deadly force - since no deadly force was used.

Someone trying to steal my firearm from me is definitely a situation where I'd be more than happy to risk being on trial for false imprisonment than being dead. I still have some faith in the court systems and believe any reasonable jury of my peers would hold the same decision.

If you enjoyed reading about "Lethal force against attempt at disarm" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!