Converting a 1895 Nagant to 7.62 Tok?


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shotgunjoel
February 24, 2011, 10:37 PM
I was reading the J&G flyer that came a week or so ago. On the front cover was an ad for 1895 Nagant revolvers, right under it was an ad for 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo. I know that there are cylinders for the 1895 that are chambered in other cartridges. It got me thinking, could a 1895 be converted to shoot the cheap 7.62 Tokarev round? The issues that I thought of is 1) can the design handle the higher power of the Tokarev round, and 2) is the bullet diameter compatible? Any ideas.

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nambu1
February 24, 2011, 10:50 PM
The only cylinder I have seen for them was for 32acp.

RevolvingGarbage
February 24, 2011, 11:23 PM
I'm thinking no, and certainly no, not holding 7 rounds. 5 or 6 might be possible, but I think it if it was feasible, then wouldn't the soviets have tried it back in the early 40's? Clearly they had lots of Nagant's on hand, and an ungodly amount of 7.62Tok.

nalioth
February 24, 2011, 11:40 PM
With the 7.62 Tok having the same muzzle energy as a .44 Magnum out of a Czech Cz52, I don't think running it through a Nagant revolver is something you'd want to do.

Nom de Forum
February 25, 2011, 12:13 AM
I have a Nagant that can fire 7.62x25 Tok. After seeing an ad in Shotgun News ten years ago I sent the cylinder away for conversion. When it returned it still had a substantial amount of metal remaining around each of the charge holes of the cylinder. I fired approximately 50 rounds of S&B through it. Lots of blow-back from the cylinder gap! Surprisingly accurate, 6" groups at 25 yards. Ejecting the cases was more difficult than 7.62x38R Nagant or 32 H&R Mag, but did not require anything more than extra hand pressure on the rod. It is now ten years latter and I still only have 50 rounds through the revolver. I think the reasons why this conversion did not blow the cylinder apart are: the Nagant cylinder is over built for 7.62x38R Nagant leaving enough extra steel after conversion and the enormous cylinder gap relieves the extra pressure of 7.62 Tok before it peaks, or I am just lucky. The pistol is not pleasant to shoot and luck can run out so I am done firing Tok through a Nagant. Spend a little more money for a Tokarev if you want to shoot 7.62x25. If you like, try .32 S&W or .32 H&R Mag. I would not attempt .327!

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
February 25, 2011, 12:33 AM
Well what I'm not understanding is; The 1895 Nagant revolver was designed to seal the cylinder and the barrel (forcing cone) preventing the blast from the cylinder, instead directing it out of the barrel like a rifle or today's pistol, (which also makes it the first suppressable revolver).

So explain to me then why there would be back-blast if it's supposed to seal the cylinder off to the barrel? Unless it's because the cylinder has been widened for the 7.62 Tok, but the barrel dimensions would be the same, wouldn't they? What with both of the rounds in question (7.62x38 and 7.62x25) being roughly .308-.311 in diameter?

Jim Watson
February 25, 2011, 12:44 AM
The Nagant gas seals by inserting the case mouth into the barrel breech. It is not just a butt joint. Use .32 H&R, put in a .32 ACP cylinder, or rechamber for Something Else and the gas seal is lost.

shotgunjoel
February 25, 2011, 12:45 AM
So explain to me then why there would be back-blast if it's supposed to seal the cylinder off to the barrel?
The Nagant cartridge has the case wall extended beyond the projectile to create the seal.

Okay, thanks guys. I figured that it would just be too hot of a round for it to work. Guess I was right.

Nom de Forum
February 25, 2011, 12:45 AM
When the cylinder of a Nagant moves forward it does not seal the gap, it is the 7.62x38R casing that seals the gap. Without the unique design of this cartridge there is, compared to conventional revolvers, an enormous gap between the barrel and cylinder. Viewed from the side a loaded 7.62x38R appears to be an empty casing because the bullet is seated inside the casing.

Clark
February 25, 2011, 01:37 AM
~ 10 years ago, there were a few Tokarev after market cylinders or reworked cylinders for sale for a while through ShotgunNews [I think from the now defunct Federal Arms Corp], but then they got replaced by 32acp cylinders.

I have two or three 1885 Nagant revolvers and consider them disgusting. Once the 1874 Colt Peacemaker was designed, the 1885 was a big step back.

Jim K
February 25, 2011, 02:00 AM
IIRC, the 7.62 Nagant round runs around 16k psi, where the 7.62x25 is in the 9mm P range of 38-39k psi. I would recommend against that conversion at least of an original cylinder.

Jim

Mizar
February 25, 2011, 03:55 AM
I have seen several 7.62x25 Nagant conversions - they do not last long. The breech block by design is quite week. The said revolvers had literally beaten themselves to death.

Boris

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