I'm speechless...


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7thCavScout
February 25, 2011, 06:06 PM
So I get home from work tonight and pick up a copy of our local daily newspaper. Hey! There's my name..... Low and behold, they decided to publish the name of every single concealed weapons permit holder in the county. I keep fluctuating between mad and indifferent. The list is public information available from the Sheriff's Dept, but why would they publish something like this. What good can possibly come from this. I have a lot of friends who have no idea I carry. Guess they do now.
Curious as to how those of you with CCW permits would feel in this position.

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ColtPythonElite
February 25, 2011, 06:10 PM
Like you said it's public record...Reminds me of the paper "Crime Times" that just popped up. People booked in the local jails are all ticked off because their name, charges, and mugshot are being put in a gas station tabloid...It's out there for the reading for anybody that wants it. I'd guess most people won't scan the names in the paper and look for people they know.

SharpsDressedMan
February 25, 2011, 06:13 PM
My license plate says "TWO GUNS" on it. Guess you know how I feel. To date, no one has tried to rob me, stolen from my car, nor have I been pulled over by the police. Maybe a little advertising is a good thing.

jiminhobesound
February 25, 2011, 06:15 PM
I would be steamed. I would ask an attorney if the newspaper had put you at risk for breakins. Perhaps each and every one of you listed can take individual action to try to overwhelm the idiots at the newspapers. I would find who was responsible for the decision to publish the list. I would write the NRA and alert them but they should already know of the listing. Iowa has always been such a strange political state.

Bubba613
February 25, 2011, 06:16 PM
It's merely a tactic by the antis to PO gun owners. So what? I wouldn't get excited about it, unless you were the only permit holder listed.

Old krow
February 25, 2011, 06:18 PM
It's a good thing that they don't post the names pf people without guns isn't it? :eek:

rquack
February 25, 2011, 06:19 PM
I think it's time for you to bring some political pressure to bear upon your state legislators. Im MI a provision of the CPL statute prohibits the publication of this info. I guess you now are aware that every scumbag in the hood now has reason to believe that you have weapons in your home and he may now have a desire to visit when you aren't home. Pressure your lawmakers to change this.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
February 25, 2011, 06:20 PM
I would write them a polite little letter stating you will no longer be taking the paper and why.

Also---that they will be included in a lawsuit should anything happen to my person or property because of their actions.

Scum like this only understand when you play hardball and hit them in the pocketbook.

mikerault
February 25, 2011, 06:21 PM
Find out the name, address and phone number of the reporter and editor of the Newspaper and post them here, we can all take turns calling them, putting their names in for various vacation plans, interesting magazine subscriptions and any number of things, after all, it is public information. We all can play "reveal information that should be private".

bikemutt
February 25, 2011, 06:22 PM
I have the "good luck", if you can call it that, of living both rurally and in a big city, my time divided evenly between the two. In the small town the short list would be anyone who DOESN'T have a CWP (CPL here in WA), in the big city, no one gives a rat's rear end.

As long as your address has not been published as well, I'd blow it off.

eldon519
February 25, 2011, 06:25 PM
If you're the vindictive type, you could cross-check the newspapers' listed staff against the sex offender registry and see if you could get that published in a rival paper.

Shadow 7D
February 25, 2011, 06:30 PM
I would sue
And the above ^^^^
Oh, and what about those victims of Sexual assault and Domestic violence who have a CCW for protection.... Oh wait, now their VIOLENT partner knows where they are....

NMGonzo
February 25, 2011, 06:31 PM
It is dirty an unnecessary to do what the paper did for whatever reason.

What about publishing the paper's editor relatives, phone numbers, email addresses ... they are public record too.

You can always take it a notch higher and publish the name of their children and what school they attend ... public record.

Of course, that would be dirty too.

Frozen North
February 25, 2011, 06:39 PM
A simple public record search of the reporter should turn up something.... or the editor... or the owner(s) and investors in the paper. How about advertisers? Its all public record right?

Those who live in glass houses ought not throw stones.....

sharpie414
February 25, 2011, 06:42 PM
#11 yes. this.

Rembrandt
February 25, 2011, 06:44 PM
I live in Iowa, have had the same thing happen with our local liberal paper. At one time it bothered me, no longer.....it simply tells the rest of the community who of us are law abiding citizens that have clean records. I suspect most anti-gunners couldn't pass a background check. Consider your name being published as a badge of honor.

Gordon_Freeman
February 25, 2011, 06:53 PM
I never read a newspaper. I heard that most people don't anymore. It seems like everyone who works in that industry is an anti gun lefty. That is a good reason not to read them. You can get your news from talk radio and the Internet.

leadcounsel
February 25, 2011, 07:01 PM
Contact the paper and discontiue service. Then contact every CCW'er listed and recommend same.

Ske1etor
February 25, 2011, 07:07 PM
Roanoke Times. Christian Trejbal. Ask him if its OK to list "public records" such as this in the newspaper.

I think I would be on the phone with the newspaper to inform them of the civil lawsuit they were about to enter. Their irresponsibility is a danger to your safety.

Justin
February 25, 2011, 07:12 PM
Curious as to how those of you with CCW permits would feel in this position.

This happened to me several years ago. I would strongly suggest you check the website for your newspaper, as they've likely published this information online as well.

When it happened to me I was quite upset, as publishing that information is an invasion of privacy, even if the database is legally available. Thankfully, due to the action of many gun owners who were affected, the publication opted to reconsider their publication of that database.

Ultimately, the concealed carry laws that allow the databases to be published should be amended to keep the list private.

Ske1etor
February 25, 2011, 07:15 PM
Public record doesn't mean what many of you folks may believe. If YOU want the information, you can run downtown and pay to get public information printed.... but you cannot put up a billboard with the information on it. Simply doesnt work that way.

springfield30-06
February 25, 2011, 07:22 PM
During the summer a similar thing happened to us in which a story was published in a newspaper and on that newspaper's website. That story contained a link to another site where anyone could download the list of names and addresses for everyone in NY state who holds a pistol permit. Many people complained about this and it seems that it has been taken down now, but it was up for over a month.

Shadow 7D
February 25, 2011, 07:33 PM
I would forward a link to your local CCW and Rifle association, also the NRA local chapter.

I would take the paper into the offices of your local representatives, after all, this is Texas, pretty likely they, or someone they know is on that list.

oneounceload
February 25, 2011, 07:35 PM
As long as your address has not been published as well, I'd blow it off.

No, it isn't - with a name, I can go to my county's tax collector data base and find your home

Tim the student
February 25, 2011, 07:51 PM
Pretty low road, IMO. It makes me want to be low road too, and take out an ad that lists home addresses and phone numbers, family members etc of everyone that deals with the paper.

Do you have a link?

ExtremeGunCare
February 25, 2011, 07:57 PM
My license plate says "TWO GUNS" on it. Guess you know how I feel. To date, no one has tried to rob me, stolen from my car, nor have I been pulled over by the police. Maybe a little advertising is a good thing.

Hilarious. My brother has a License Plate states "Dr. Gun" which he has had for numerous years now.

Jason

Onward Allusion
February 25, 2011, 07:57 PM
7thCavScout (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=125712)
I'm speechless...
So I get home from work tonight and pick up a copy of our local daily newspaper. Hey! There's my name..... Low and behold, they decided to publish the name of every single concealed weapons permit holder in the county. I keep fluctuating between mad and indifferent. The list is public information available from the Sheriff's Dept, but why would they publish something like this. What good can possibly come from this. I have a lot of friends who have no idea I carry. Guess they do now.
Curious as to how those of you with CCW permits would feel in this position.

How about compiling a list of individuals who DO NOT have a CCW permit and publishing that? It can be easily done, but I wonder about the legality, however.

Panzercat
February 25, 2011, 08:28 PM
The writer/editors name should be in there. Dig though some public records. Take up a fund to buy a local roadside advertisement posting his picture and his sins. It would take a bit more than a news paper article to get me that vindictive, but I'm certainly creative enough to consider it.

Tim the student
February 25, 2011, 08:32 PM
Dig though some public records.

Or just use spokeo.com or beenverified.com

NavyLCDR
February 25, 2011, 08:33 PM
So much for the "element of surprise!" Might as well open carry.

ConstitutionCowboy
February 25, 2011, 08:37 PM
Thee is a cure. Push for permit-less carry.

Woody

btg3
February 25, 2011, 08:41 PM
Our paper publishes real estate sales each week.
Names of seller and buyer.
Address of property.
Price paid.

"News" indeed. I guess inquiring minds want to know--LOL--and supposedly that keeps "reporters" employed??? What a "profession". All terms used loosely, as you may have surmised.

Regarding the list of CWP permit holders, be proud to be listed among those exercising their 2A right to the extent that law has not infringed upon it.

If you do not CC legally, ask yourself whether you are part of the solution or part of the problem.

Tim the student
February 25, 2011, 08:44 PM
Thee is a cure. Push for permit-less carry.

We're working on that.

writerinmo
February 25, 2011, 08:51 PM
Heck, I could care less if my name was published in the paper as a CC permit holder. It doesn't necessarily mean that I have firearms in my house, it means I have firearms on ME!!!!

ArfinGreebly
February 25, 2011, 09:05 PM
I seem to remember that something like this happened in, what, Oregon?

I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but I seem to remember someone digging up the "public records" of the people who published the paper and published that information (names, addresses, etc.) on-line.

I don't recall what other information might have also been published with it.

From what I remember, the publisher eventually thought better of it and had the list removed.

Anyone recall this incident?

Have a better memory than mine?

Ske1etor
February 25, 2011, 09:16 PM
Anyone recall this incident?

Have a better memory than mine?



Roanoke Times, guys name is Christian Trejbal.

NavyLCDR
February 25, 2011, 09:19 PM
Actually, the disservice was done to those NOT on the list - better known as targets.

sig220mw
February 25, 2011, 09:31 PM
Did they publish your address also? If not then the anti gunners will have to still find it so that they can come and trash your yard.

This is private information. It's not as if you are a child molester or on parole in a halfway house. This is purely an intimidation tactic in order to put pressure on you from friends, family and anyone else that decides to get in your business.

This a tactic anti gunners have tried to put into practice in several states in the past with little success and it tells you that they obviously have too much power when they can do it.

mhphoto
February 25, 2011, 10:00 PM
Them printing a public record list is just them trying to be activist "journalists". Even though it's public record, I'd get with an attorney. Sticking it to a bunch of leftist rabble rousers is never a bad thing.

Owen Sparks
February 25, 2011, 10:10 PM
If it is public knoledge that you carry, why should you have to carry it "concealed"? Doesn't the public have a right to know?

W L Johnson
February 25, 2011, 10:14 PM
You could look at it one of two ways
1) Criminals now know who to avoid
2) Criminals now know where to find guns

Of course this assumes criminals can read and if they can would even read the newspaper.

Thlax
February 25, 2011, 10:53 PM
I would be irritated when i read it, but then again my name was in the paper for when i needed to apply for my CCW. Such as life..

MidwestHunting
February 25, 2011, 11:06 PM
I suppose the newspaper would claim violation of freedom of speech if anyone would question their "activist journalist" style.

If it is public knowledge that you carry, why should you have to carry it "concealed"? Doesn't the public have a right to know?

I would say that most people who carrying concealed comes from the motive of "self-defense" and not to publicly announce "I have a gun" everywhere you go.

Good for you for being on the list, though. At least you are exercising your right to carry concealed.

rust collector
February 25, 2011, 11:24 PM
It's just what passes for journalism lately. It would cost money to hire a writer and actually create content. This info is free, so they post it and hope it will be controversial so emotions can become superheated and feed the op-ed page.

Once upon a time, newspapers were useful for something besides birdcage berber. Now, not so much.

RS14
February 26, 2011, 12:01 AM
The following isn't meant to dismiss your irritation, but rather at the people suggesting lawsuits. The proper course of action is of course to write to your congressmen and suggest that the state not publish that material, or better yet, that it adopt permitless carry. And stop buying the paper, if it bothers you.

In Cox Broadcasting v. Cohen, 420 U.S. 469 (1975), the Supreme Court of the United States held that the First Amendment to the Constitution prohibits states from imposing a penalty on the press for publishing accurate information obtained from a public court record. As a result of this case, most states recognize an absolute privilege for publication of information found in a publicly available (i.e., not sealed) court record. While the case involved traditional media, there is no reason to believe that its reasoning and holding would not extend to non-traditional journalists and other online publishers. This means that you cannot be held liable for publishing accurate facts about someone that you find in a public court record, regardless of how embarrassing they are. Note that this privilege will protect you in publishing information about past crimes (discussed above), so long as you gather your information from publicly available court records, such as an indictment or trial transcript. For information on accessing court records, see Access to Courts and Court Records.

Many states have extended this protection from liability to the publication of information found in "public records" in addition to court records. The exact meaning of "public records" varies, but in some states it includes information obtained from government agencies through state freedom of information requests. See State Law: Publication of Private Facts for details on the scope of the First Amendment privilege and Access to Government Records for information on freedom of information requests.

Source (http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/publication-private-facts).

The decision of Cox Broadcasting v. Cohen is worth reading. In particular, while the case concerned public court records, the court does not seem to particularly concern itself with the distinction between public court records, and other public records. The failure of all states to extend this protection to all public records does not mean that such publication is necessarily unlawful.

The previously linked site also lists four conditions for liability in the case of publication of private facts.

1. Public Disclosure: The disclosure of facts must be public. Another way of saying this is that the defendant must "give publicity" to the fact or facts in question.
2. Private Fact: The fact or facts disclosed must be private, and not generally known.
3. Offensive to a Reasonable Person: Publication of the private facts in question must be offensive to a reasonable person of ordinary sensibilities.
4. Not Newsworthy: The facts disclosed must not be newsworthy. Stated differently, the facts disclosed must not be a matter of legitimate public concern.
1 is clearly met. 4 is probably met. 2, 3 are probably not met. It's factual information already publicly available, and furthermore the fact that your state chooses to allow concealed carry would seem to imply quite strongly that it is not offensive to a reasonable person of ordinary sensibilities.



Really, for a bunch of people who want the state to just go away and leave you alone when it comes to all things firearms, some of you sure are quick to run to it for assistance when people say things you don't like. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand. :neener:

(Yes, I understand that the phrasing of the 1st amendment is different. Call it poetic license.)

Neverwinter
February 26, 2011, 12:27 AM
1 is clearly met. 4 is probably met. 2, 3 are probably not met. It's factual information already publicly available, and furthermore the fact that your state chooses to allow concealed carry would seem to imply quite strongly that it is not offensive to a reasonable person of ordinary sensibilities.

The publication of CCW licensees would definitely be newsworthy if it showed discriminatory practices in the issuance of may-issue states.

Justin
February 26, 2011, 12:55 AM
Anyone recall this incident?

Incidents like this have happened more than once. Assuming that a certain critical mass of ticked off permit toters can be reached, the following steps should be taken:

1.) Insistent, upset, but nonetheless polite and constant phone calls to the editor expressing your displeasure with the publication. (This will be ignored.)

2.) Putting the editors on notice by stating you will be contacting advertisers. (This will be ignored.)

2a.) If the newspaper folks really are jerks, look up their private home contact information and publish it online.

3.) Riffling through the local paper, calling up every advertiser, and politely but firmly explaining what the paper did, why it upsets you, and that you are considering a boycott of all local businesses that advertise in the paper. (If enough people do this, you will not be ignored.)

4.) The newspaper, once pressured enough by advertisers threatening to yank their ads, will pull the database down/promise not to publish the list ever again.

5.) The newspapers will publish editorials for a couple of weeks calling gun owners all kinds of nasty things and highlighting the three or four troglodytes who did write threatening and stupid letters.

6.) Petition your county/state representatives to amend the law prohibiting the concealed carry database from being made public due to concerns about public safety.

7.) WIN

KodiakBeer
February 26, 2011, 01:34 AM
Low and behold, they decided to publish the name of every single concealed weapons permit holder in the county.

They did you a favor. Now you have a Political Action Committee. Do a mailing to everyone on the list, scheduling a meeting.

First order of business, raise enough money to do a bulk mailing to everyone in the county.

The mailing to contain the names, phone numbers and addresses of everyone who works for the newspaper (available as public information from the city or county that issues their business license).
The mailing will detail the vicious political nature of the newspaper along with the criminal backgrounds of any employee, and ask for all citizens to boycott the newspaper and any business that advertises in the newspaper.

You can also solicit funds for further actions to step up your campaign against this propaganda organ.

Do a separate mailing to all the advertisers specifically advising them of the boycott.

Newspapers are a business, and they run on a tight budget. If they lost just ten percent of their revenue it might well cause them to fold. At a minimum you can bet that the editor who decided to use the paper as a leftist political organ would be out of a job.

clem
February 26, 2011, 02:04 AM
Find out the name, address and phone number of the reporter and editor of the Newspaper and post them here, we can all take turns calling them, putting their names in for various vacation plans, interesting magazine subscriptions and any number of things, after all, it is public information. We all can play "reveal information that should be private".
Yes! Do it! I'll spend the time to write them letters and call them!

jhco50
February 26, 2011, 03:24 AM
This is exactly why I carry openly. I don't have to worry about being the center of attention for the media or some anti-gun group. They don't know my name and so they can't use me for their liberal crap.:scrutiny:

Tim the student
February 26, 2011, 03:30 AM
This is exactly why I carry openly.

Yeah, that makes sense, but it isn't that way in Iowa. Here, you still need a permit to openly carry. Same permit, but no OC without it. So, you would still have your name in the paper here.

JellyJar
February 26, 2011, 12:24 PM
You need to petition your state legislature to make such info private.

X-Rap
February 26, 2011, 12:35 PM
I would do as Justin outlined in #47 and would add starting a Facebook page that allows viewers to voice their displeasure with the news paper/papers that have done this.
Link to editorial page
Link to subscription page
It will happen again so having the ground work done and maybe affiliating with the states pro gun orgs will get it out in front of a lot of people quickly when it happens.
Subscription cancelations carry powerful weight with the faultering newspaper business as well so I'd push that as well.

JellyJar
February 26, 2011, 02:32 PM
I had to do some research to be sure about this.

Back before I moved back to Alabama in 2007 to take care of my widowed mother I worked for a large IT firm in Houston Texas. They weren't paying the going rate so I was considering looking for another job locally. I heard about one firm that was hiring but they said that they did a check to see if the applicant had a Texas CHL and if so they would not hire that person.

Well, download this pdf from the below link...


http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/LegisChangesCHLStatute07.pdf

You will see that in 2007 the Texas legislature passed a law to make CHL info confidential except to law enforcement agencies.

The OP should get with some of his fellow CCWers and try to get the legislature of their state to do the same.

Take care

JJ

ConstitutionCowboy
February 26, 2011, 02:38 PM
In Cox Broadcasting v. Cohen, 420 U.S. 469 (1975), the Supreme Court of the United States held that the First Amendment to the Constitution prohibits states from imposing a penalty on the press for publishing accurate information obtained from a public court record. As a result of this case, most states recognize an absolute privilege for publication of information found in a publicly available (i.e., not sealed) court record. While the case involved traditional media, there is no reason to believe that its reasoning and holding would not extend to non-traditional journalists and other online publishers. This means that you cannot be held liable for publishing accurate facts about someone that you find in a public court record, regardless of how embarrassing they are. Note that this privilege will protect you in publishing information about past crimes (discussed above), so long as you gather your information from publicly available court records, such as an indictment or trial transcript. For information on accessing court records, see Access to Courts and Court Records.

Simple fix. Take the court out of the CCW permit process. (NOTE: The Second Amendment considered not with standing for the sake of discussion.) In Oklahoma, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) runs the background check, no court involved, ergo, no "public record" of a court proceeding.

Woody

Deanimator
February 26, 2011, 02:41 PM
The Cleveland Plain Dealer used to do that.

Boy was the editor surprised when HIS personal information immediately showed up on pro-CCW websites.

In these kinds of situations, if no law has been broken, an eye for an eye works, and usually VERY well.

alsaqr
February 26, 2011, 03:34 PM
ask for all citizens to boycott the newspaper and any business that advertises in the newspaper.


+1
This is the best way to go. In your letter you might also ask why the paper never prints the names and addresses of convicted child molesters.

hso
February 26, 2011, 03:38 PM
I'd be pulling the "public records" of the reporter, editor and owner and "publishing" them in every source available. I'd be visiting every advertiser and demanding they pull their ads from the paper and if they didn't I'd be publishing their public information.

Because information is a public record doesn't mean that it is appropriate to use it in detail to put that information out in the paper.

Work to have your state make such public records anonymous.

7thCavScout
February 26, 2011, 03:51 PM
I did ask the paper why don't they publish the names of everyone in the county who is on welfare. The only reply I got from them was that would be "silly".

harrygunner
February 26, 2011, 03:58 PM
Happened in California, in a virtually "shall issue" county. A liberal college city newspaper published permit holders' names.

In every case, the writer deserves a big, heaping taste of what they are dishing out.

DC3-CVN-72
February 26, 2011, 04:01 PM
Mine says LUV GUN !

bugmania
February 26, 2011, 04:54 PM
While it is within the 1st Amendment rights of the paper to print this information, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. This is obviously a ploy by the editor or owner of the newspaper to air his uninformed beliefs on gun ownership rights. I can't really see how this would help to sell newspapers. Most people couldn't care less who is carrying and who isn't.

It seems to me that this is more a problem with the state laws regarding concealed carry. If it is incumbent on the licensee to make sure that his firearm is concealed then shouldn't the state government make sure that the information of those licensees is concealed as well?

SharpsDressedMan
February 26, 2011, 07:14 PM
In a state like New York, or NYC, it might point out how the poor, or people without "connections" can't get a CCW, but famous, politically connected, or friends of the the Mayor CAN.

Bubba613
February 26, 2011, 07:53 PM
I would sue
On what grounds?

danprkr
February 26, 2011, 08:17 PM
+1 Omaha-BeenGlockin's comments

oneounceload
February 26, 2011, 09:52 PM
Our paper publishes real estate sales each week.
Names of seller and buyer.
Address of property.
Price paid.

Public record in every county's tax records and database - so what?

I can go into my county records on line, put in an address or even a GPS location and retrieve everything about that property - owner, price paid, taxes, etc. - called public records. many places seem to feel that CCW's fall into the same category (I don't agree), but you can do the same thing for $5 with a car license plate number

Larry E
February 26, 2011, 10:55 PM
Thankfully Montana has very strong privacy laws, so some nosy "journalist" would be hard up against it if they got ahold of concealed carry permit holders names and published them. Nobody's business who has a CCW except the holder and the issuing agency, and maybe not even them.

Balrog
February 26, 2011, 11:42 PM
It makes it harder to tell if the state is playing fairly with the issuing of permits if the list of permit holders is made unavailable for public scrutiny.

TennJed
February 26, 2011, 11:51 PM
While it is public record it seems very unnecessary for the paper to publish it....

Cancel subscription and also make a list of all advertisers in the paper....you want to hurt the paper? Hit them in the wallet

Call or write all advertisers, tell them you will not frequent their establishment or use their services as long as they are supporting the paper.....urge everyone you know to do the same and ask them to urge everyone they know.

If a business gets enough calls or letters they will stop supporting the paper....with no advertising $$$ the paper folds

bushmaster1313
February 27, 2011, 12:02 AM
I think Florida used to have its data public but when it was abused they stopped

mgmorden
February 27, 2011, 01:47 AM
Public record doesn't mean what many of you folks may believe. If YOU want the information, you can run downtown and pay to get public information printed.... but you cannot put up a billboard with the information on it. Simply doesnt work that way.

Unfortunately that's not the case. I work in government and have prepared God only knows how many FOIA requests. Once they get it they're pretty much legal to do with it what they will - they can republish or even resell the information if they want.

The reality is that most people simply aren't aware of just how much information you can put out there legally, or request. Want to know the home address of anyone in our county on such a list? Do a name search on the website and you'll see not only their address but also every piece of property they own (as well as an indicator showing which one they actually live at if they own multiple), past ownership records, whether or not they pay their taxes. Heck there's even photos of the houses (both aerial and street view). Don't even need to ID yourself to get that information. If you actually come in and file the paperwork you can get a LOT more. Last one I prepared was actually this Friday - give me a list of the site address, model, owner name, and owner mailing address of every mobile home in the area.

We even had one case where a battered wife was trying to keep her address secret from her ex and we had a devil of a time just getting the legal authority to redact her name from our online info.

Like it or not, we live in a digital age and privacy outside of the walls of your own home is pretty much long gone. No changing it now.

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