9mm and blue dot


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suzukisam
February 25, 2011, 09:14 PM
I was looking up load data for 9mm and blue dot, do any of you have a pet load? I'm not looking for defense loads in particular. I'm also not looking for "cowboy loads"(i know it's a 9mm). I'd just like some standard velocity accurate loads. also if you don't like blue dot why and what do you like? I have been using tight group in .40 and after my accident a couple months ago I'm not really feeling like using such a hot, low case capacity powder in pistols anymore.

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TH3180
February 25, 2011, 09:34 PM
I just loaded up some test loads with blue dot. I hope to shoot them Tuesdsay. From what I am told Blue dot will make a 9mm breath fire. That is what I am looking for, I want to get some good pictures.

rfwobbly
February 25, 2011, 09:35 PM
I'd consider Blue Dot too slow to be effective with 115gr and 124gr bullets. On this scale right HERE (http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html), you'd want a powder between #28 and #41. Blue Dot is way down the ladder at #49.

That is not to say it isn't done, but it's less than optimal and a proper burn will be hard to achieve. If I had a 50 lb keg of the stuff, then I'd sure be shooting it, but you're not going to be happy using the popular bullet weights.

May I suggest starting where you should have: Win231 or HP-38 (same thing; different label). It burns right and meters well. You're going to be very happy with any load starting just below mid-range as long as you use 115gr and 124gr bullets.

If you want to shoot 147gr, then try Accurate No.7 or your Blue Dot will do much better.

All the best.

CZ57
February 25, 2011, 09:36 PM
Blue dot is at its best when loaded near or at the max charge range in 9mm and it's a bright flasher. Don't get me wrong, some of the most accurate 9mm handloads I've ever produced were loaded with Blue Dot but they were high velocity defense type loads. If you want to download I'd suggest a different powder like say W-231 or Ramshot ZIP.;)

suzukisam
February 25, 2011, 09:43 PM
thanks for the info. I was looking at the data, and it looked like it produced in the top %10 of velocities. I guess I don't mind if the loads are fast, I just wanna stay well out of the danger range. Like I said the scare with my 40 was enough for me. the spread on the TG was about .5 grains, the spread on BD is much greater. I want to have wiggle room. high power loads don't bother me shooting, but I just don't want any shrapnel! I'm a little gun shy right now..literally. I've only been reloading for about 3 years, and I'm still developing my "decide on a new powder" strategy. I've used 296 in 257 so I'm not opposed to win powders. blue dot just looked good in teh data books, so I went with it. I'm going to use up the pound I bought and see what I think of it. any good loads? I want to probably shoot 124's... maybe 147's

TH3180
February 25, 2011, 09:44 PM
I'd consider Blue Dot too slow to be effective with 115gr and 124gr bullets. On this scale right HERE (http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html), you'd want a powder between #28 and #41. Blue Dot is way down the ladder at #49.

That is not to say it isn't done, but it's less than optimal and a proper burn will never be achieved. If I had a 50 lb keg of the stuff, then I'd sure be shooting it, but you're not going to be happy using the popular bullet weights.

May I suggest starting where you should have: Win231 or HP-38 (same thing; different label). It burns right and meters well. You're going to be very happy with any load starting just below mid-range as long as you use 115gr and 124gr bullets.

If you want to shoot 147gr, then try Accurate No.7 or your Blue Dot will do much better.

All the best.
The OP didn't bring up bullet weight. I want to clarify my post. i am testing Blue Dot with 147g. Funny you bring up AA#7. I'm working up loads with that also.
I agree with W231 for 115g. The loads I did are spot on.

1SOW
February 25, 2011, 09:47 PM
Blue dot would probably be more appropriate for 147gr.
A friend tried it with lighter bullets and it was 'adequate' and dirty.
It will work for hot rounds.

I'm not really feeling like using such a hot, low case capacity powder in pistols anymore

I personally think Vit n320 is top-of-the-list for light load 9mm up to 125gr.

As Mr. Wobbly said, 231/HP38 also works well if you keep the speed up a little--mid-range. At lower levels it's very 'sooty'.

TH3180
February 25, 2011, 09:47 PM
thanks for the info. I was looking at the data, and it looked like it produced in the top %10 of velocities. I guess I don't mind if the loads are fast, I just wanna stay well out of the danger range. Like I said the scare with my 40 was enough for me. the spread on the TG was about .5 grains, the spread on BD is much greater. I want to have wiggle room. high power loads don't bother me shooting, but I just don't want any shrapnel! I'm a little gun shy right now..literally. I've only been reloading for about 3 years, and I'm still developing my "decide on a new powder" strategy. I've used 296 in 257 so I'm not opposed to win powders. blue dot just looked good in teh data books, so I went with it. I'm going to use up the pound I bought and see what I think of it. any good loads? I want to probably shoot 124's... maybe 147's
I like shooting 147g the best. I feel they take some of the snap out of recoil, it's more of a thud to me. I have also found smaller groups with 147g over 115g bullets.

suzukisam
February 25, 2011, 09:48 PM
also another question. what about 95 gr CLRN. I have about 300 of them for my 380 and I was thinking maybe I should burn them up as 9mm not 380.. I may be selling my 380(lcp)anyway

italy176
February 25, 2011, 09:48 PM
I really liked Blue Dot in 9mm. It is relatively cheap, available, there is lots of load data out there for it, and it metered fairly consistently.

It may be "slow" for the 9mm but I found that to be a benefit especially when shot through my 9mm carbine. I also use VV3N37 and VV3N38 and they are slower than what RFWobbly recommended.

On the down side it burns a little dirty.

Personally, if the VV powders didn't kick so much butt I would probably stick to Blue Dot (due to my dual use).

adobewalls
February 25, 2011, 10:17 PM
My pet loads with Bluedot:

115 gr Hornady XTP 8.2 gr Blue Dot, Fed SP primer
124 gr Hornady XTP 8.0 gr. Blue Dot, Fed SP primer
147 gr. Hornady XTP 5.6 gr. Blue Dot, Fed SP primer

All OAL 1.095"

These are on the upper end and safe in my pistol.

rfwobbly
February 25, 2011, 10:38 PM
A friend tried it [Blue Dot] with lighter bullets and it was 'adequate' and dirty.
On the down side it burns a little dirty.

It's dirty or sooty because the chamber pressure is not high enough to burn clean. You may also get black down the sides of the cases. All this points to the in-efficient burn. By the time you pile enough power in there to start burning correctly, you're at or near max load. You may desire that for SD, but for general shooting you are simply wearing your gun out.

Blue Dot for 115gr and 124gr bullets is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum from TiteGroup. Whereas TG is on the fringe of being too fast for 9mm, Blue Dot is on the fringe of being too slow. If your powder choices were indicative of your driving, then you'd be careening off the RH guard rail and then off the LH guard rail like a drunk.

I've a good mind to site you for PUI. :neener:

smokinjim
February 25, 2011, 11:22 PM
For my 115 gr and 124 gr 9mm bullets I us Alliant Unique. works great. Burn rate just under Win 231.

115gr FMJ rn 5.7 gr of unique, winchester spp, coal 1.150
124gr Berry Plated HP, 5.7 gr unique, Win spp, coal 1,142

115gr velosity 1,220 (fps)
124gr velosity 1,190
Good luck

gamestalker
February 25, 2011, 11:41 PM
My opinion is going to rather discriminating in that Blue Dot is a slow burning powder in the 9mm world. My discriminating point of view is based on the fact that I only load with slow burner's because they deliver higher end velocity, consistent pressures, and accuracy when loaded at the upper end of the spectrum. Another important positive element of slow burning powders is, they make it nearly impossible to accidentally double charge a case because of the density of the load. I'm also a fan of Longshot in 9mm and other pistol cartridges for the same reasons. My critics are mostly those who work with the faster burning powder's, and will argue my opinion simply because they're desired expectations are lower velocities and working pressures. It is a "to each his own" subject matter that doesn't really have a winning opinion. Blue Dot and Longshot are excellent powders for higher performance loads in the 9mm, 38 special +P, and .40 cal.. However, it should be closely observed that when loading with any slow burning powders, is they can't be reduced below minimum listed data, as pressures will likely rise unpredictably high, which is why they can't be safely used in this manner. But on the other end of this, is pressures are very predictable at the high side of listed data, unlike faster burning powders. But to say that Blue Dot, or any other slow burning powder, is going to deliver low to medium velocity with minimal pressures, would not be an accurate statement, to say the least. It's for this reaosn I feel it necassary to reiterate my previous statement, they produce very predictable higher working pressure high velocity load, when used at that upper end data, and should not be used if you are seeking a middle of the road, or lower velocities and working pressures.
I probably over killed on the information, but the slower burning powders sometimes get an undeserved bad reputation, because of their inherently high working pressures. All said, if you are shooting with a good full chambering firearm, then the pressures within SAMMI specification limits often associated with them, shouldn't be a concern, but rather a characteristic. Personally, I feel much more comfortable using them because of their consistent pressure characteristics when desiring high velocity performance.

suzukisam
February 26, 2011, 12:01 AM
gamestalker- I very much like your explanation. I went through a similar conversation when I was loading revolver cartidges with 2400. many people dissagreed. I like the slower powders though. I'm very comfortable shooting "hot" loads(with safe data of coarse). I'm not comfortable shooting fast powder in hot loads. as stated before I blew up a 40 and I'm not sure why. not enough room for error in 40 with TG for me anymore!

CZ57
February 26, 2011, 04:10 AM
If you don't mind loading warmer loads or the muzzlebalst, go ahead with Blue Dot. You don't have to worry about excess pressure in the 9mm. Many Blue Dot loads can even be compressed without exceeding the pressure limit for 9mm. It's just that Blue Dot works best at the higher charge levels.;)

Steve C
February 26, 2011, 07:28 AM
I have tried Blue Dot in the 9mm with 115gr JHP's and it works OK but since I can get the same or higher velocities with 2 grs less powder using Unique or Power Pistol my preference is those powders. If for some reason there was a lot of Blue Dot on my bench I'd have no problem using it in the 9.

larryf1952
February 26, 2011, 09:15 AM
In my earlier days of 9mm reloading, I also used to use a lot of Blue Dot. I've never been interested in loading target or plinking loads. I like to load at what would normally be considered standard combat velocity loads with a 115 grain JHP...namely somewhere around 1150 to 1200fps, and that is what I practice with.

Blue Dot was good at achieving this in my guns. But, the charge filled the case to almost the casemouth, and I found that Blue Dot metered very erratically for such a small charge, due to the large flake size. I was having to check each charge and trickle to keep from getting fairly large swings in charge weights in many rounds. Finally, I decided it wasn't worth it, and I switched to using ball powders exclusively. I've found that powders such as HS6, Accurate #5, Power Pistol and WSF are excellent performers in the 9mm, and they give me the velocities that I'm looking for and burn more cleanly and efficiently with safe pressures.

Walkalong
February 26, 2011, 09:37 AM
There are better powders for 9MM (IMHO), but Blue Dot works. As others have posted BD burns much cleaner at the top end of the data.

amlevin
February 26, 2011, 11:52 AM
also another question. what about 95 gr CLRN. I have about 300 of them for my 380 and I was thinking maybe I should burn them up as 9mm not 380.. I may be selling my 380(lcp)anyway

These bullets make a great reduced recoil load for a small framed 9mm or for someone that is "recoil sensitive".

I loaded a bunch up and shot them in a Sig P-229 and they were real smooth. Wouldn't expect them to be much of a "stopper" but paper is no challenge for them.

fecmech
February 26, 2011, 01:28 PM
I was looking up load data for 9mm and blue dot, do any of you have a pet load? I'm not looking for defense loads in particular. I'm also not looking for "cowboy loads"(i know it's a 9mm). I'd just like some standard velocity accurate loads. also if you don't like blue dot why and what do you like? I have been using tight group in .40 and after my accident a couple months ago I'm not really feeling like using such a hot, low case capacity powder in pistols anymore.

I would think that BD would be just the powder for you then. I don't think it's possible to overload BD in a 9MM case as it's bulky and full case loads run about 30K psi. max. I can't speak much to jacketed reloads with BD but in the cast arena it has really shined for me. With 120 and 147 gr bullets it was very accurate at jacketed speeds and only bested by Longshot in the accuracy dept and then not by much.

suzukisam
February 26, 2011, 01:50 PM
thanks mech. I really like hearing experience! I plan to shoot 124 and 147 MO bullets most likely. along with some jacketed. but I have about 400 95 gr mo bullet 380's and if I could reasonably burn them up in the 9mm that would be great. when I order again, it will be the heavier one for sure. I'm not looking for crazy loads. this is going to be my range fun and ccw practice load. I really hate spending the money on jhp for paper. lead works fine. and typically my guns only get 30-50 rounds between cleanings.

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