Insight LAM: Civilian VS LE (IR capability)


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artherd
January 5, 2004, 05:50 AM
Is the Insight LAM-100 (IR capability) not sold to civillians because of Insight's own internal policy decision, or are IR lasers regulated by the BATF?

I can't find any laws covering the matter on either a Federal, or CA state, position.

I want the best light for my Glock and rifle. (and the same on both to retain manual of arms.)

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c_yeager
January 5, 2004, 06:48 AM
Well according to Cal's Sporting Armory (http://www.calssportingarmory.com/ITI.htm) (look near the bottom of the listing for the LAM (or M6).

Heres a quote : NOTE: The FDA restricts and regulates the sale of IR laser products to military and law enforcement agencies only. Individual law enforcement personnel are prohibited from purchasing these products for personal ownership

Sounds pretty silly to me.

MarkDido
January 5, 2004, 12:56 PM
"NOTE: The FDA restricts and regulates the sale of IR laser products to military and law enforcement agencies only. Individual law enforcement personnel are prohibited from purchasing these products for personal ownership"

OK, I'll bite.....

Since when is an IR laser either a food OR a drug?

Nightfall
January 5, 2004, 01:56 PM
So IR lasers are banned by the FDA...

There are two parts to that statement that are wrong. Now can anybody explain either part to me? Why are IR lasers banned, and why by the FDA?

c_yeager
January 6, 2004, 02:39 AM
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/programs/lab_safety/l_saf_guide05.htm#REGULATIONS

Everything you could possibly want to know about the regulation of lasers. Its pretty dry but here is i think the most relevat portion to our question.

The Radiation Control for Health and Safety Act of 1968 was passed by Congress to protect the U.S. public from the dangers of radiation exposure from electronic products. Federal regulations require that all laser products. (i.e., any electronic product that consists of, incorporates, or is intended to incorporate a laser) manufactured on or after August 2, 1976, be certified as complying with the FDA performance standards for laser products, 21 CFR 1040.10 and 1040.11 under the Radiation Control for Health and Safety Act. Also reference ANSI Z-136.1-1993 American National Standard Institute 1993.

So, as usual, you can thank congress for another stupid law.

artherd
January 6, 2004, 05:04 AM
I know that simple IR lasers are not restricted by the FDA. Infact, your CD player (every CD player) has one.

So, what federal laws prohibit my purchase of a LAM-100 exactly?

c_yeager
January 6, 2004, 05:25 AM
Did you actually READ the link i posted? It's pretty safe to assume that the tiny little laser in your CD player isnt QUITE as powerful as a designator that can be seen 600yards down range. Is it at all possible that just MAYBE the FDA has established several classifications for lasers based on their potential level of harm? Like maybe they have established 4 clearly defined categories of regulation? Just maybe?

goalie
January 6, 2004, 05:27 AM
So the FDA will regulate powerful lasers, but they still refuse to regulate an actual drug like nicotine????? :scrutiny:

artherd
January 6, 2004, 06:24 AM
c_yeager; Yes, I did. I personally own many lasers of various classifications. (there are many subcatagories under I, II, III, and IV as well)

The IR laser in the LAM-100 is LESS THAN 0.7nm. this is not a very powerful laser at all.

I refer you to: http://www.insightlights.com/prod_lam.htm
and the 6th page of: http://www.insightlights.com/pdf/lam_manual.pdf (for a crystal-clear view.)

Read the laser safety labels.

The LAM-100 is a Class IIIb laser device, and is Mil/LEO-ONLY.
The LAM-150 is a Class IIIb laser device, and is civillian legal.

c_yeager
January 6, 2004, 06:58 AM
Just so that its clear the LAM-100 is the infrared version and the LAM-150 is the visible light version. You need to read the warning VERY closely. You said : "The IR laser in the LAM-100 is LESS THAN 0.7nm. this is not a very powerful laser at all." The warning label clearly indicates that the "NM" designation is the wavelength of the laser and that the IR laser is rated at "830nm" and that the visible light laser is rated at "640nm" now my math may not be the greatest but it looks like there is a fairly significant difference there. The IR laser also has a higher wattage rating (IR= less than .7 Visible= less than .5).

here is a nice clear definition of "Class IV" laser"

Class IV (0.5 mW power or higher)

These are high powered lasers that represent hazards (eye damage, skin injury, and or potential flammable material ignition source) for direct viewing, viewing of diffuse reflections, and skin exposure.
http://radiationsafety.asu.edu/laser/appn_C.cfm

As can clearly be seen from the literature that you provided the visible light laser (<.5mW) DOES NOT qualify as a "Class IV" laser while the IR laser (<.7mW) most certainly DOES. I have no idea how much of an effect on health this would have BUT, they are definatly in different classifications.

mrapathy2000
January 6, 2004, 07:35 AM
FDA regulates medical devices the laser could be powerfull enough to shoot the cataract out of someones eyes.:uhoh:

HankB
January 6, 2004, 09:54 AM
Also reference ANSI Z-136.1-1993 American National Standard Institute 1993. Old info - an updated Z-136.1 was issued in 2000.The IR laser in the LAM-100 is LESS THAN 0.7nm. this is not a very powerful laser at all. Don't confuse wavelength with power. A wavelength shorter than 0.7nm - nm=nanometers - is considered visible.Class IV (0.5 mW power or higher) These are high powered lasers . . . Class IV lasers are 0.5 W or higher. "0.5mW" is off by three orders of magnitude - no doubt a misprint at the Arizona State University website.the visible light laser (<.5mW) DOES NOT qualify as a "Class IV" laser while the IR laser (<.7mW) most certainly DOES. Nope. Class 3a is a visible light laser with a power output between 1 and 5 mW. Class 3b is a laser with a power output less than 500 mW, which doesn't meet class 3a criteria. One of these criteria is that 3a is a visible light laser (most laser pointers are 3a devices) so an IR laser with power output around 0.7mW would be a Class 3b laser. Some states (Texas, for one) regulate 3b devices.

FWIW, various commercial sources for NIR laser diode modules are on the web, with no caveats for "military or LE" only, so I doubt that they're generally "prohibited" items. Maybe there's a rule buried in an appendix somewhere regarding weapon sights - if you're really interested, I'd contact the vendor and ask for a specific reference for the alleged prohibitiion.

artherd
January 6, 2004, 02:50 PM
c_yeager; I mistyped, that should read "Less than 0.7mW" which would place the device into the Class IIIb range. (only IIIb because the emmission is non-visible.)


Class IV lasers are 0.5W as in WATT, not mW. Those can be powerful suckers :)

c_yeager
January 7, 2004, 09:07 AM
Its OK i think that so far the only person here (including the TWO universities cited) who go the symbology right was Hank. Im just going to place all of it in my "black magic" category and just assume lasers will do what they are intended to do without needing to know why.

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