Arm thy neighbor?


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mcdonl
February 26, 2011, 09:11 AM
I hope I do this right.... And, does this belong in S&T?

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/69429/gaddafi-to-arm-supporters-as-more-gunfire-is-heard-in-tripoli

Snip-it.....

People in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, are braced for further battles after the country's leader, Muammar Gaddafi, said he would open weapons depots to arm his supporters.

Latest reports from Tripoli say gunfire was heard during the night, and one resident says power has been cut.

A resident, who identified himself only as Naser, told the BBC he was returning from Friday prayers when gunmen in an ambulance opened fire on worshippers.

As Colonel Gaddafi seemingly prepares for yet more bloodshed, the United States on Saturday announced it would impose sanctions on the country and the United Nations condemned the violence against protesters. The UN estimates more than 1,000 people have died in the 10-day-old revolt.

This is a good chance for many of us to see what happens when you just start handing out your extra SKS, Mosins and AK's to your family and friends.

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fallout mike
February 26, 2011, 10:12 AM
So , if there was a revolt and riots and killings here and you and some of your family or friends were bugging in together for support and they had no gun , are you saying you would not ARM them?

Old Shooter
February 26, 2011, 10:25 AM
If the government was to open the nations armorys to supply weapons to civilian gangs that "support" the government and they ride around shooting persons who don't support the government or whomever they feel like shooting, I would definitly lend/lease any extra arms and ammunition to my family and friends to resist. (Although most of them are pretty well armed themselves anyway)

The crisis in Libya is an extreme situation, more akin to a civil war rather than armed mobs rioting and looting after some natural or man-made disaster.

fallout mike
February 26, 2011, 10:40 AM
Right on old shooter

TexasRifleman
February 26, 2011, 10:42 AM
This is a good chance for many of us to see what happens when you just start handing out your extra SKS, Mosins and AK's to your family and friends.

I don't see that connection at all. I see one terrorist leader handing out firearms to folks he knows will abuse them in order to create more havoc.

ultradoc
February 26, 2011, 10:45 AM
I know who to trust and hand out weapons too. I wouldn't trust just anyone.

hso
February 26, 2011, 10:52 AM
I'm having trouble making the connection as well since the situation here in the U.S. isn't going to be be the same as Libya.

A more realistic situation for us would be temporary failure of infrastructure/civil society due to a widespread natural disaster. We might be left without sufficient LE and civil government resources to maintain normal levels of order so we'd be responsible for security and maintaining civil order on the neighborhood/community level. That makes a discussion over who/why to arm others within the real of reason. Armed revolt is pretty much waaaayyyyyy out on the tails of the probability curve.

BTW, I flew out of that region right after power in Egypt had changed hands, rioting in Bahrain was still hot and Libya was just starting to heat up. All the Westerners who have any sense have evacuation plans in place before they find themselves caught up in situations like that.

thorn726
February 26, 2011, 10:59 AM
guys you could switch Kaddaffy (comical spelling) for "regular joe" and it works, I get it, and yes it will be interesting. It goes both ways, if Daffy wins by handing out guns to joe-nobody, so could anyone. that said, have to agree with hso that armed rebellion is pretty far off for USA, only a disaster would spark that kind of unrest and then it would be defense against looters more than anything

22-rimfire
February 26, 2011, 12:55 PM
I don't see much correlation with the USA. That is NOT the kind of situation I would prepare for in the USA. Hence, you don't need thousands of rounds stockpiled to be effective which is a common forum topic.

I have been paying attention to the demonstrations in WI and planned demonstrations by teachers in other states. It could be interesting and eventually become like some to the demonstrations (riots) in the European countries, but I doubt it.

FourteenMiles
February 26, 2011, 01:03 PM
...see what happens when you just start handing out your extra SKS, Mosins and AK's...

There is something about these kind of statements that really bothers me, the "...we can't have everyone running around with a gun on their hip!" and "...now they want to give college kids guns!"

I don't know why, it just really bothers me.

mcdonl
February 26, 2011, 03:17 PM
There is something about these kind of statements that really bothers me, the "...we can't have everyone running around with a gun on their hip!" and "...now they want to give college kids guns!"

I don't know why, it just really bothers me.

Sorry, my intent was NOT to really bother you or to compare our situation to Libya.

AND... I never expressed an opinion about handing out guns to friends and family. Just the fact that handing out guns to folks just to arm them may have educational and news worthy effects.

NMGonzo
February 26, 2011, 03:33 PM
Yeah ... I got enough to get the neighbors to hold the fort together.

Ohio Gun Guy
February 26, 2011, 04:14 PM
:fire:
More like a perfect reaso TO hand out guns to the neighbors to me. The Dictator, handing out guns to his thugs to use against the mostly UNARMED protestors. Sounds like the odds need evening to me.

browneu
February 26, 2011, 09:06 PM
I have enough to give to the neighbors too but I'm going to break with the pack and say I won't hand them out.

For me they chose their fate by not exercising their right to arm. I know it sounds calice but they have their reasons for not arming themselves and a crisis isn't the time to perform firearm 101.

I will ban together with neighbors who already own.

P5 Guy
February 26, 2011, 10:29 PM
If you knew my neighbors you'd have never asked.

Ky Larry
February 26, 2011, 10:53 PM
No, I would not arm my neighbors. The ones who have the temperment and knowledge to defend themselves are already armed and trained. A newb would probably wind up accidently shooting me.

rfwobbly
February 26, 2011, 11:20 PM
The ones who have the temperament and knowledge to defend themselves are already armed and trained. A newb would probably wind up accidentally shooting me.

Yea, step out of the shower, wrap a towel around your head and get mistaken for some middle-Eastern type.

A and O
February 27, 2011, 02:03 AM
^^ LOL ^^
I've been trying to educate in a reasonable way the need for my neighbors to arm themselves for personal protection for the last five yrs. or so. Some have listened, some have not. If, when the need arises I'll still help in a case by case basis and at the prevailing market price of the day. It is not my or your responsibility to make up the difference on that day for their indifference today. Some think I'm nuts and that's ok by me because I know from others experience that no matter how well prepared you are that you will come up short in some area of preparation. Same goes for food, water, toiletries etc...

On the plus side, for the most part the guns are in the correct hands in this Country.

Sport45
February 27, 2011, 02:12 AM
see what happens when you just start handing out your extra SKS, Mosins and AK's to your family and friends.


To avoid this calamity, just pass out AR's, M1's, and M1A's instead. :)

Old krow
February 27, 2011, 02:29 AM
I doubt that I'll be passing out guns for whatever reason. The problem is that they couldn't see the forest for the trees... what's changed to improve their vision?

Dulvarian
February 27, 2011, 02:39 AM
There is a decent sized movement going on that would probably play hell with this. Check out Oathkeepers.

Secondly, in this country, the pro-gubmint "entitlists" are not what I would consider highly trained in combat or arms. Those that already own the 100 million guns in the US lean to the other side of the fence. So, civilian on civilian, I don't worry too much. You don't pick up a military grade weapon and start dropping head-shots at a quarter-mile without some practice. CoD doesn't teach you anything about recoil, followup shots, and real tactics. I can not work up the worry from that scenario.

This differs from other countries where there is no real civilian armament. And I'm pretty sure this is the reason we have the Second Amendment in the first place.

Thirdly, I don't think that our military would fire on civilians. Some might, there are always a few. But our armed forces (active and reserve) are drag ass tired and war weary after a decade of groundpounding. To come home and fire on their neighbors, friends and family? I just don't see it. I in fact see that going real bad for a commander that ordered it. I see the same thing from LEO. Sure, there might be a few. But those that have sworn oaths to defend, we are by and large a pretty proud bunch. Honorably serving. Now BATFE, those guys I wouldn't trust if I had them handcuffed, disarmed, blind-folded, and at gunpoint.


Off topic, slightly.
While having one of many discussions on prior/current service and the changing political landscape, I have discussed something similar.

A small handful of us would take our decent sized armories to a more rural location with emergency everything (the owner is borderline EOTWAWKO prepper), but he has the biggest arsenal. We all meet up there with all of our families, supplies, and weapons and hang tight there. I'm not saying that a dozen or so people could stand up to a full scale military style assault, but I promise you that the average rabble would fare very poorly.

Personally, I'm not worried about arming the neighborhood. I only actually plan on arming each member of my own family with a long-gun and a side arm (that they are capable of using) and adequate ammo supplies to get us where we are going. The real trick is getting there before things got bad enough that you had to fight anything other than traffic getting where you were planning on going.

Anyone else gets milsurps or hand-me downs. Yes, that Mosin I handed you will do just fine. Just a little slower than the one I have, and with few rounds on hand. ;)

jhngardner367
February 27, 2011, 02:49 AM
I heard on the news,tonight,that the reason "daffy"was arming his supporters,is because some of his military are siding with the protesters.It seems to me,that this is the actions of a man who is scared,and doesn't trust his own military. Also the UN voted to enact sanctions,and freeze his assets,and even China voted yes!

AWorthyOpponent
February 27, 2011, 03:23 AM
I don't think I would arm anyone. If they had a useful skillset that was useful to me, and he needed a firearm, I would use the barter system, but my main priority is protecting my family.

mcdonl
February 27, 2011, 10:28 AM
Just a reminder, I posted this so people could follow the story and see where it goes. Not to argue the pro's and con's of arming your friends, family and neighbors.

All of my friends, family and neighbors are already armed. It just reminded me of THR and the many threads that have gone on over just this thing.

ball3006
February 27, 2011, 11:24 AM
I would not arm my neighbors. None of them are gun folks that I know of. If they asked for help, I probably would help them out but I go to great pains to not advertise my gun ownership. I have a rear entry garage where I do all my pre range loadups. If the crap did hit the fan I would team up with my shooting bud who lives about a half mile away. Between him, his kids, grown, and me, we could manage alot.

By the end of the year I should be living at my camp in east Texas. All my neighbors there are armed so I have no worries about this subject there.....chris3

colnago58
February 27, 2011, 12:38 PM
I don't think my neighbors know how to shoot. If I hand them one of my guns I can see them killing one of their own family with a ND.

Not the mention the mindset needed to actually send rounds downrange at real live human beings. The military has studied this quite extensively over the years and Col Grossman's book "On Killing" covers it.

Jeff Cooper "Buying a gun doesn't make you armed any more than buying a piano makes you a musician"

I also believe that whatever may happen in the USA or my neighborhood, there are already more than enough armed "good guys" to handle the situation. No need to arm the spectators.

JohnBiltz
February 27, 2011, 05:22 PM
I think trouble is more likely to turn aside in the presence of several armed people than in the presence of one individual no matter how capable he or she may be.

Ky Larry
February 27, 2011, 09:18 PM
I've had some time to think about this subject today. I enjoy company for supper every now and then but I don't feel a need to feed my neighbors every day. I also don't feel a responsibility to spend my hard earned $$$ on stockpiling weapons and ammo for my neighbors. It is not a financial hardship to buy a weapon and a few 100 rnds of ammo and get some training.

Ohio Gun Guy
February 27, 2011, 09:58 PM
I think (Somewhat Unfortunately) that in SOME circumstances the help of the many would be needed. There would likely even be some who refused to help/arm themselves at that point.

On the other hand, if someone is concerned about their general safety and just expects you to provide that to them through your guns / ammo / risk to your life....that is completely different.

I would be open to it depending on the situation.

Shadow 7D
February 27, 2011, 10:27 PM
Hate to say this, but I'd be kinda intimidated, I'm rather sure some of my neighbors would be offering to arm me.

If it get like there, I'm more focused on making sure the basics, like heat and electricity are met, not building a fort.

mcdonl
February 28, 2011, 02:18 PM
So here is an update....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya

The two sides in Libya's crisis appeared entrenched in their positions, and the direction the uprising takes next could depend on which can hold out longest. Gadhafi is dug in in Tripoli and nearby cities, backed by security forces and militiamen who are generally better armed than the military. His opponents, holding the east and much of the country's oil infrastructure, also have pockets in western Libya near Tripoli. They are backed by mutinous army units, but those forces appear to have limited supplies of ammunition and weapons.

Interesting because it seems as though the ammunition and weapons that are being given to the supports are being taken from the millitary they are there to supply. Interesting dynamic.

I suspect this thread will get closed, as even I am finding it hard to relate to firearms but it is worth watching anyway.

I wonder if this will have an impact on supplies... once the dust settles, how much of the ammunition and supplies given out to the supporters will be handed back in. If now will there be a big buy of supplies and draining of what is available to us?

TexasRifleman
February 28, 2011, 03:29 PM
I suspect this thread will get closed, as even I am finding it hard to relate to firearms but it is worth watching anyway.

You are right, it's getting hard to figure out what this has to do with law abiding citizens loaning arms to their neighbors, but on the off chance someone has a comment on that we'll keep going for a bit.

MD_Willington
February 28, 2011, 03:38 PM
My neighbors are already armed...

mcdonl
February 28, 2011, 03:40 PM
You are right, it's getting hard to figure out what this has to do with law abiding citizens loaning arms to their neighbors, but on the off chance someone has a comment on that we'll keep going for a bit.

I guess the moral of the story is make sure you have plenty of ammo, as it is likley the government would control the ammo supply, as is the case in Libya.

mgmorden
February 28, 2011, 03:46 PM
I live around mostly family members who are all armed. The few non-family the live close by are also armed as well. They might not all have "combat" style weapons (ie, most of them have hunting weapons), but what they have will do just fine for most purposes.

As a matter of fact in the even that something really bad happens - foreign invasion, governmental collapse, etc, we already have a remote location picked out to meet up at. Not something we regularly sit around and talk about as it's a fairly unlikley scenario, but if it happens everybody knows where to go.

cheygriz
March 1, 2011, 02:51 PM
I have specificaly designated about a dozen weapons, and ammo for them to arm my poorly armed neighbors temporarily in the event of a breakdown in social order.

Armed revolt is just not necessary or desireable, and "it aint agonna happen!"

At leat, not if we fulfill out responsibilities as citizens, keep informed and vote.

Ala Dan
March 1, 2011, 04:33 PM
I'm not going "to arm thy neighbor"; cuz he may use the loaned firearm on me~! :eek: My neighbor's generally do not like former law enforcement officals, so they are on their own baby~! ;) :D

cheygriz
March 1, 2011, 08:34 PM
ALA DAN,

I'm sure glad we have different neighbors.:p All of my neighbors love LEOs. Active or retired. :):)

And they (mostly) all know how to shoot. But most of them only have a hunting rifle, and maybe a box or at most a box and a half of ammo for it.

Yeah, I'll loan them AKs, ARs and other "defensive" weapons, and enough ammo to get the job done.

Who knows? The life they save might be mine! :evil::evil:

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