Appeal to All Mississippi Members


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SonofGilnockie89
February 28, 2011, 04:38 PM
Hello all. In case you are unaware, the Mississippi Senate has passed MS Senate Bill 2469. This bill, if passed, will remove MANY of the restrictions on lawful carry in the Magnolia State. As a college student, I am particularly pleased by the removal of the college campus ban. It has been referred to the House and may face an uphill battle there. I hope everyone living in Mississippi or with family/friends in Mississippi will contact their Representatives and request support for this bill. Please help spread the word and make Mississippi a safer place for everyone.

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Prince Yamato
March 2, 2011, 12:18 AM
http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/2011/pdf/history/SB/SB2469.xml

Died in Committee...

45crittergitter
March 4, 2011, 12:28 PM
That bill died in House Jud B committee like it does every year. However, check out House Bill 506.

Also regarding students and campus carry, see Mississippi Code 97-37-17.

Ben86
March 4, 2011, 03:19 PM
Dang it, I didn't even know about this. I'm going to have to keep on it. Common sense will prevail one of these years.

DammitBoy
March 4, 2011, 03:33 PM
That bill died in House Jud B committee like it does every year. However, check out House Bill 506.



Go figger, they might just pass the one that allows lawyers and judges to carry... :(

jdrink
March 9, 2011, 10:00 PM
As of 3/8/2011 HB 506 has passed the house and senate and has been sent to the Govenor.

SonofGilnockie89
March 12, 2011, 02:59 PM
Will HB 506 nullify 97-37-13? That section of MS Code prohibits students from even having a gun in a car, but 506 seems to allow permit holders to carry on a campus with the endorsement......

chbrow10
March 12, 2011, 05:29 PM
Wow,

That is a pretty big change. It says...

"A person 89 licensed under Section 45-9-101 to carry a concealed pistol, who 90 has voluntarily completed an instructional course in the safe 91 handling and use of firearms offered by an instructor certified by 92 a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers 93
H. B. No. 506 *HR40/R893PH*
11/HR40/R893PH
PAGE 4 (CJR\BD)
ST: Weapons; allow all prosecutors to carry.
firearms training, or by any other organization approved by the Department of Public Safety, shall also be authorized to carry weapons in courthouses except in courtrooms during a judicial proceeding, and any location listed in subsection (13) of Section 45-9-101, except any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, any police, sheriff or highway patrol station or any detention facility, prison or jail."

Section 13 of 45-9-101 reads

" (13) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver into any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, Mississippi Code of 1972; any police, sheriff or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section shall preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his courtroom; any polling place; any meeting place of the governing body of any governmental entity; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any portion of an establishment, licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, that is primarily devoted to dispensing alcoholic beverages; any portion of an establishment in which beer or light wine is consumed on the premises, that is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any junior college, community college, college or university facility unless for the purpose of participating in any authorized firearms-related activity; inside the passenger terminal of any airport, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal if the firearm is encased for shipment, for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; any church or other place of worship; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. In addition to the places enumerated in this subsection, the carrying of a stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver may be disallowed in any place in the discretion of the person or entity exercising control over the physical location of such place by the placing of a written notice clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten (10) feet that the "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited." No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize the participants in a parade or demonstration for which a permit is required to carry a stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver. "

That is a pretty big deal. If Haley Barbour signs that, I'll be getting that endorsement.

Prince Yamato
March 12, 2011, 10:04 PM
The bill basically creates a CHL+ category that allows you to carry in most places that were previously prohibited. College Campuses and Churches are now go for those with "CHL+"; provided this all is signed by the governor.

DammitBoy
March 14, 2011, 01:16 AM
Can somebody dumb that down for me? Why do I feel like I need translator for a bill supposedly written in english? :uhoh:

Ben86
March 14, 2011, 12:20 PM
Weapons; allow all prosecutors to carry.
firearms training, or by any other organization approved by the Department of Public Safety, shall also be authorized to carry weapons in courthouses except in courtrooms during a judicial proceeding, and any location listed in subsection (13) of Section 45-9-101, except any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, any police, sheriff or highway patrol station or any detention facility, prison or jail."


Perhaps I misunderstand this, but since colleges are still considered a place of nuisance this bill still prohibits CC on a college campus. All this bill seems to do is allow prosecutors to carry in a courthouse, and not while court is in session.

DammitBoy
March 14, 2011, 03:21 PM
Ben86 - that's what I got and thought I must have missed something in the gobbilty gook legaleez.

kenl1960
March 15, 2011, 02:31 PM
I'm not so sure that this is just for prosecutors.

The hang up here is the part about "except any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1.

The actual text of 95-3-1 says:

95-3-1. Definitions of terms "person," "place" and "nuisance."

For the purpose of this chapter the terms place, person and nuisance are defined as follows:

a. "Place" shall include any building, erection, or structure or any separate part or portion thereof or the ground itself.

b. "Person" shall include any individual, corporation, association, partnership, trustee, lessee, agent or assignee.

c. "Nuisance" shall mean any place as above defined in or upon which lewdness, assignation or prostitution is conducted, permitted, continued or exists or any other place as above defined in or upon which a controlled substance as defined in Section 41-29-105, Mississippi Code of 1972, is unlawfully used, possessed, sold or delivered and the personal property and contents used in conducting or maintaining any such place for any such purpose. One single act of unlawful cohabitation, lewdness or possession, use, sale or delivery of a controlled substance about such property shall not come within the terms hereof.

So I see two points here; either they don't think much of our schools, or schools, churches, etc. are not places "of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1".

Actually, the main text of HB506 says
"shall also be authorized to carry weapons in courthouses except in courtrooms during a judicial proceeding, and any location listed in subsection (13) of Section 45-9-101"

This subsection 13 is where schools, etc, were previously dissallowed.
So properly licensed people with the training are authorized to carry at school, or in other locations.

NOTE! I am not a lawyer. This is just how i read it.

DammitBoy
March 15, 2011, 05:02 PM
I don't think much of our schools either. :D

jdrink
March 15, 2011, 10:33 PM
ken,

I am wth you on this. The only question i have is the last part of section 13 that reads "...In addition to the places enumerated in this subsection, the carrying of a stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver may be disallowed in any place in the discretion of the person or entity exercising control over the physical location of such place by the placing of a written notice clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten (10) feet that the "carrying of a pistol or revolver is prohibited." Does this new law also negate this part of the law?? It sure reads like it does, but I cannot see where the legislature would want to try and tell a business owner that they must allow people to carry on their property.

jdrink
March 15, 2011, 10:35 PM
By the way, HB 506 was approved by the govenor last Friday

kenl1960
March 16, 2011, 12:50 PM
Jdrink,

The part about the sign is a double edged sword to me.

It is a part of subsection (13) of Section 45-9-101 so you might think that it is circumvented by HB 506.

BUT,

I would be upset if any government tried to dictate how I could control my own property or business.

Of course, If I owned a public business place I would post a sign saying;
"Carrying of a revolver or pistol in this establishment is REQUIRED! Please see management for a loaner if necessary."

Ken

Ben86
March 16, 2011, 04:06 PM
ken, it seems like you are correct. This will allow for carry on college campuses IF and only if the subsection about signs is overridden by this new law. Not that my college has signs, but I know that they prohibit the carrying of firearms on campus and could easily put up signs on every building.

Kind of a bummer that this won't go into effect until after I get out of college this semester (law effective July,1,2011). But, at least my children my be able to CC at college if me and the Mrs. stick around MS.

45crittergitter
March 16, 2011, 09:43 PM
Those are a couple of good questions that I do not have the answer to - whether nonspecific locations that are posted are now allowed with the "CCW+" and what about non-student CCW+ holders on campus. Let me say that I am not an attorney and do not play one on TV. Also, the bill has been signed into law by the governor and becomes effective on July 1, 2011.

First, just judging just from reading the bill and statutes, it seems to me that posted places would be legal, because they are included in the section that the new bill specifically authorizes carry in.

Second, schools are a bit more complicated IMHO. Just following this statute, 45-9-101, it seems clear that a CCW+ holder will be legal on campus.

HOWEVER, see also section 97-37-17, which clearly prohibits such a thing for the most part. (posted below for your convenience)

Since the new bill does not address the provisions of 97-37-17, yet specifically authorizes CCW on campus under 45-9-101, there seems to me to be a conflict between the statutes. A minor additional point is what about adult students with a CCW+?

Let us know if you find a definitive answer....



MISSISSIPPI CODE

SEC. 97-37-17. Possession of weapons by students; aiding or encouraging.

(1) The following definitions apply to this section:


(a) "Educational property" shall mean any public or private school building or bus, public or private school campus, grounds, recreational area, athletic field, or other property owned, used or operated by any local school board, school, college or university board of trustees, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution or during a school related activity; provided however, that the term "educational property" shall not include any sixteenth section school land or lieu land on which is not located a school building, school campus, recreational area or athletic field.


(b) "Student" shall mean a person enrolled in a public or private school, college or university, or a person who has been suspended or expelled within the last five (5) years from a public or private school, college or university, whether the person is an adult or a minor.


(c) "Switchblade knife" shall mean a knife containing a blade or blades which open automatically by the release of a spring or a similar contrivance.


(d) "Weapon" shall mean any device enumerated in subsection (2) or (4) of this section.


(2) It shall be a felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind, or any dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine or powerful explosive on educational property. However, this subsection does not apply to a BB gun, air rifle or air pistol. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00), or committed to the custody of the State Department of Corrections for not more than three (3) years, or both.


(3) It shall be a felony for any person to cause, encourage or aid a minor who is less than eighteen (18) years old to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind, or any dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine or powerful explosive on educational property. However, this subsection does not apply to a BB gun, air rifle or air pistol. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00), or committed to the custody of the State Department of Corrections for not more than three (3) years, or both.


(4) It shall be a misdemeanor for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any BB gun, air rifle, air pistol, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, metallic knuckles, razors and razor blades (except solely for personal shaving), and any sharp-pointed or edged instrument except instructional supplies, unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction and maintenance on educational property. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00), or be imprisoned not exceeding six (6) months, or both.


(5) It shall be a misdemeanor for any person to cause, encourage or aid a minor who is less than eighteen (18) years old to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any BB gun, air rifle, air pistol, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade, knife, blackjack, metallic knuckles, razors and razor blades (except solely for personal shaving) and any sharp-pointed or edged instrument except instructional supplies, unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction and maintenance on educational property. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00), or be imprisoned not exceeding six (6) months, or both.


(6) It shall not be a violation of this section for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind on educational property if:


(a) The person is not a student attending school on any educational property;


(b) The firearm is within a motor vehicle; and


(c) The person does not brandish, exhibit or display the firearm in any careless, angry or threatening manner.


(7) This section shall not apply to:


(a) A weapon used solely for educational or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or used in a school-approved program conducted under the supervision of an adult whose supervision has been approved by the school authority;


(b) Armed forces personnel of the United States, officers and soldiers of the militia and National Guard, law enforcement personnel, any private police employed by an educational institution, State Militia or Emergency Management Corps and any guard or patrolman in a state or municipal institution, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;


(c) Home schools as defined in the compulsory school attendance law, Section 37-13-91;


(d) Competitors while participating in organized shooting events;


(e) Any person as authorized in Section 97-37-7 while in the performance of his official duties;


(f) Any mail carrier while in the performance of his official duties; or


(g) Any weapon not prescribed by Section 97-37-1 which is in a motor vehicle under the control of a parent, guardian or custodian, as defined in Section 43-21-105, which is used to bring or pick up a student at a school building, school property or school function.


(8) All schools shall post in public view a copy of the provisions of this section.


SOURCES: Codes, 1880, Sec. 2988; 1892, Sec. 1030; 1906, Sec. 1109; Hemingway's 1917, Sec. 835; 1930, Sec. 859; 1942, Sec. 2085. Laws, 1994, ch. 607, Sec. 1; 1995, ch. 607, Sec. 1, eff from and after July 1, 1995

jdrink
March 19, 2011, 09:31 PM
Critter,

I agree that the new law does not seem to alter any part of 97-37-17, so I would assume (we know what happens next) that students are still prohibited from carrying on campus while non-students are now allowed to carry. I cannot imagine the legislature intending to nullify the posting restriction but the way it is written it could be argued that it has done just that. I know, on July 1, 2011, why don't you go to Toys-R-Us and tell them that you can bring a gun into their store in MS now and there is nothing they can do about it. Let me know how this works out. LOL Now all I have to do is find the safety classes. So far that has been the hard part. :banghead:

kenl1960
March 20, 2011, 09:34 AM
It is not clear if training taken today, or anytime in the past, will count for the CCW+ requirements. If past training is ok then I should already be covered.

If anyone needs training, and lives close to central MS, I would recomend Cliff Cargill. He is a NRA certified firearms trainner and he does have a safety course that will cover this requirement.

You can find out about him at cliffcargill.com (http://cliffcargill.com)

Cob
March 20, 2011, 08:26 PM
I attended MSU College of Forest Resources, & helped w/ fundraising 1998-2000. We had a fundraiser once a nice bolt action hunting rifle was given away. We stored it on campus, and gave it away on the College Campus at an event one evening...
Another time i presented a speech with a visual aid...& took my PSE Mach 4 compoundbow & arrow to class and explained the moving parts to a group of 35 students...
The kicker, one autumn evening on campus, at the football field, I took the same bow, set up a target on the football field and practiced some shots on perfectly marked range... In that instance i was informed that i needed to practice in a different location, to minimize damage to the field.
In all instances, Rules were either relaxed, ignored, or my blunt ignorance got me through it without any trouble... I read in the local MSU newspaper about students being arrested not long after that for haveing weapons on campus... one had a bow, and another had a rifle... Go figure

Ben86
March 21, 2011, 02:08 PM
The requirement of safety training seems to me like it will include a common hunter's safety course. This bill sure does have some vagaries. I assume it may be a little to early to make a call to the AG's office and get concise answers on this bill, but I plan to do so in the near future.

MS CC law seems to have a history of vagaries. Like being an open carry state, but requiring a CC permit to do so because a holster is "partial concealment." Oh well, freer than some I guess. :rolleyes:

DammitBoy
March 21, 2011, 10:26 PM
I hate that CC permit for open carry nonsense!

bigbuckmg
March 23, 2011, 11:47 PM
I wish to start by saying that I also am not a lawyer and therefore get as frustrated and confused by legal language as anybody.

From what I see, the issue about Section 97-37-17 is addressed by the new law if you follow the circles through the different sections.

The law allows concealed carry with CCW+ in the locations in subsection 13 of section 45-9-101 which includes courthouses, campuses, places of worship, etc. It also seems, in agreement with above comments, that the issue could be legally argued that private businesses may no longer restrict weapons on their premises based on this change.

Now to address section 97-37-17: If you look at subsection 7-e of section 97-37-17, it states "(e) Any person as authorized in Section 97-37-7 while in the performance of his official duties". Since the new law amends Section 97-37-7, it seems that this requirement is now met, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything.

Does this seem inaccurate to anyone?

45crittergitter
April 2, 2011, 08:38 PM
Now to address section 97-37-17: If you look at subsection 7-e of section 97-37-17, it states "(e) Any person as authorized in Section 97-37-7 while in the performance of his official duties". Since the new law amends Section 97-37-7, it seems that this requirement is now met, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything.

97-37-7 and 97-37-17 are not really related. 7 refers to cops and licensed guards, etc. 17 refers to both students and non-students on school property. 17 is the section in question here.

For the record, I DO NOT recommend Cargill's instruction.

bigbuckmg
April 3, 2011, 10:51 PM
While they are not necessarily directly related, 17 allows carry to those authorized in 7. 7 is the section amended by the new law. The amendment includes CCW holders with special training:

1 AN ACT TO AMEND SECTION 97-37-7, MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972, TO
2 AUTHORIZE ALL PROSECUTORS AND PUBLIC DEFENDERS TO CARRY CONCEALED
3 WEAPONS; TO AUTHORIZE CERTAIN PERSONS WHO HAVE HAD FIREARMS
4 TRAINING TO CARRY WEAPONS; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES.
5 BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI:
6 SECTION 1. Section 97-37-7, Mississippi Code of 1972, is
7 amended as follows
etc, etc, etc

Ben86
April 4, 2011, 02:01 PM
2 AUTHORIZE ALL PROSECUTORS AND PUBLIC DEFENDERS TO CARRY CONCEALED
3 WEAPONS; TO AUTHORIZE CERTAIN PERSONS WHO HAVE HAD FIREARMS
4 TRAINING TO CARRY WEAPONS; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES.

What exactly that means is what I am wondering.

billinms
April 4, 2011, 03:54 PM
I assure you folks that being able to walk past a posted sign with ccw+ will in no way stop a property owner from being able to ask you to leave if he sees your gun and he doesn't want it there. This will only align us with other states where signs have no legal enforcement. I believe Florida is the same way, IIRC.

45crittergitter
April 17, 2011, 06:18 PM
Bigbuck, I think you're right, EXCEPT 7 stipulates "while in the performance of their official duties," which will practically exclude private CCW holders and continue to cover only cops, licensed guards, etc.

I've spoken with a couple of gun-savvy attorneys including a former judge about the issue, and they agree the different sections are confusing and could be interpreted more than one way. Both advised me not to be the test case for CCW on school property.

Ben, what it means is in the bill. Those with gun safety training from a nationally recognized organization that provides such training (NRA), can CCW with a license in places that those with a license and no such training cannot.

razorback2003
April 19, 2011, 03:48 PM
Do you folks in MS happen to know how this bill will affect those with out of state licenses? I live in the Memphis area on the TN side of the state line and have a TN handgun carry permit. We are required by the state to have training and live fire qualification to get our handgun carry permit. I am curious if our handgun carry permit will be honored like this new license and we will be able to carry in more places in MS. I go to Southaven and Olive Branch a lot. Thanks.

Ben86
April 19, 2011, 10:58 PM
I would imagine your permit would be given the same freedoms as ours, as this I believe is how reciprocity works. I'll try to find out.

45crittergitter
April 30, 2011, 02:09 PM
razorback, that's a good question and I don't know the answer. I doubt there's good news for you. I would carry a copy of my training proof/certificate along with my out of state permit, in case I needed to show I had training. MS is supposed to be adding an indication of training on our permits, but that won't change other permits. However, the new law says permit + training, but it doesn't REQUIRE that training be noted on the permit for you to be legal.

Just FYI, the governor has signed Mississippi House Bill 881, which redundantly includes the same language as already-passed HB 506, allowing for the "enhanced" CCW permits with training, and removing most of the previously prohibited places from the list of places you cannot carry with a permit, if you have the enhanced permit. This takes effect July 1.

billinms
April 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
45 cg,

I suppose we'll have to wait for dps to write up the regs for this to know the particulars of it. Can you give us any info on these training classes? and where they might be held? Also costs?

Just curious.

razorback2003
May 6, 2011, 05:59 PM
I actually got my first license in Arkansas. I was never given a 'certificate' of any training because my firearms qualifier/instructor there signed all my paperwork that was sent to the AR State Police. That has been quite some time back. I then moved to TN where I got my TN handgun carry permit without going through the TN handgun course because I already did a course with range qualification in Arkansas.

Thanks for providing this information as it comes out, especially for those of us in other states.

45crittergitter
May 16, 2011, 08:12 PM
It appears that any "national" firearms group (i.e., NRA) training will work, as well as possibly some other if recognized by DPS, who has been silent so far. I know that Joe Rankin in Rankin County and Clyde Morgan's range at Forest will offer NRA courses. I assume most ranges or stores that have training will do the same. The bill says nothing about obtaining training in MS, so get it wherever you are.

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