[Ruger GP100 fan]

I finally found some 180gr Hornady HP/XTPs locally. First 180s I've ever seen,so I bought a box and tonight I began gathering data and preparing cases. The cases are all R-P because that's what I had onhand. They were all trimmed with a Lee hand trimmer to the same length(1.280). CCI550 magnum primers,and I'm using H110 for powder. At a local gun shop I wrote down Hornady's reload data for this bullet from one of their manuals(I could not find one online)as tested in a Ruger RedHawk. They call for a minimum start of 11.3gr and a maximum load if 12.5gr all seated to 1.590. Then,I went to Hodgdon's reload website to check their data. They show a MINIMUM of 13gr and a maximum of 13.5,both seated to 1.575, .015 deeper than Hornady. They did not provide the gun the round was tested in,or I just didn't see it.
What do I go by? If I use Hornady's data their MAXIMUM load of 12.5gr is 4% BELOW Hodgdon's MINIMUM,not safe according to the "not below 3% of the minimum" rule. So,with Hodgdon I'm loading more powder and seating the bullet .15 deeper. Hornady also does the numbers thing with the whole 296/H110 issue,not providing data on 296 ON THE 180gr ONLY. It's my understanding that the 2 powders are identical,are they not?:banghead:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

I've loaded a few to Hodgdon's data using 13.2gr H110,gave them a roll crimp and added pic. Any help would be much appreciated.

[GJgo]

The Hodgon data must be "Ruger only" :P I'd touch one off then check the case.

Seriously though, I've had good luck with Hornady book loads for many cartridges while the Hodgon loads always are a bit hot for me. My $0.02.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Gun is a 6" GP 100. If I go with Hornady I must go below Hodgdon and Winchester's recommendations. Without buying online I simply cannot gather together the same components as either of the data books. I have a Spears and I don't want to even consider using their data due to the far lighter loads recommended there....lower than Hornady.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Does the seat put it just about in the right place on cannelure ? Hornady would have it seated .15 lower(bullet higher)

[GJgo]

I'd probably set my die a hair deeper so the crimp is right in the cannelure.

[Geogre]

nevermind, was stupid

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I'd probably set my die a hair deeper so the crimp is right in the cannelure.
Do you mean more crimp to make it deeper into the cannelure or seating bullet deeper?

[Otto]

What do I go by? If presented with data from both the powder manufacturer and the bullet maker, I always choose the bullet maker's recommendations first.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

If presented with data from both the powder manufacturer and the bullet maker, I always choose the bullet maker's recommendations first.
Please explain why. Thanks

[Stumper]

Powder maker's data is sometimes "generic" for a given bullet weight. If the brand/style of bullet is specified it may be different from yours. Bullet maker data is specific to their product. The Hdy XTPs are noted for different data than other comparable weight bullets due to the bearing surface and ogive shape differences from "normal".

[ArchAngelCD]

The difference in load data is due to Hodgdon using a Nosler Partition bullet in their load data and Hornady using their XTP bullet. I will tell you I did load a 180 Hornady XTP/HP bullet with W296/H110 and I used a charge of 13.5gr. I shot them in a 4" M686 and they were STOUT. I was much more comfortable shooting them from my Marlin Carbine. There was no signs of excessive pressure in the revolver and all 6 cases dropped from the Cylinder without sticking. I also used a CCI-550 primer. I seated and crimped into the lower end of the cannelure and the OAL was 1.590" I have loaded the same bullet into the same brass and used an OAL of 1.575" and was still into the cannelure, there is that much leeway with that bullet because the cannelure is on the wide side.

[Walkalong]

I'd probably set my die a hair deeper so the crimp is right in the cannelure.
Yep, seat the bullets a hair deeper to get the case mouth in the middle of the cannelure. That will give a little better crimp. Looks pretty good though. Seating the bullet so the case mouth is crimped into the middle of the cannelure gives you the right O.A.L. for that bullet, regardless of what any manual says. Adjust the charge as needed if it is a good bit longer or shorter than what was used in the manual.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Thanks you guys. My plan was to try out a cylinder full today to see what the cases looked like but the the range where I went to was closed today.
As for seating depth,I'm confused as to which would cause higher pressures: !.575 or 1.590.

[Walkalong]

The deeper they are seated, the lower the case capacity is, and the higher the pressure is.

[Hondo 60]

Without buying online I simply cannot gather together the same components as either of the data books.


That's why I love Lyman's 49th & the individual caliber books from Load Books USA.
You almost always get the right combination. almost :)

I had the same issue with a 357 mag load.
I wanted to try the 180 gr MBC bullets.
I never did find a recipes for it.
But I found a recipe for a 180 gr jacketed bullet & just went a frog's butt hair below minimum.
It kicked pretty hard & wasn't all that fun to shoot.
So now I go with 158 gr "357 Action" from MBC.

[GP100man]

13grs of H-110/296 & the hornady 180xtp is 1 of the gold star loads for my 6" GPser#62.

It was like I was looking at my own notes reading your post !!

Never chronographed it but if I needed more power I`ll grab something that begins with a .4

[jimbob123]

I bought some 180 xtp the other day and loaded them with 13.5 h110 with a cci 550 primer.Shot a couple the other day in my gp100 and they seem fine.No signs of being over pressure.There are two crimp grooves in the bullet so i went by the length called for for the nosler .that put length into cannalure with bullet seated deepest.Was not compressing powder either.I would be more worried about going to light .13.5 h110 seems perfect from sources i found.Only loaded 5 So far but am going to stay at 13.5..JIMBOB123

[James2]

I know, every data source is a bit different. I don't think it matters, as long as you always follow rule #1. Start low and work up!

For me, facing the same dilema, I would go with the Hornady data since it is their bullet. I can say this with confidence because I have been loading from Hornady manuals for many years. Their data with their bullets has always been good for me.

Oh, if you can't just walk out back and try them out, I would load 5 at the starting load, 5 more a little heavier, 5 more a little heavier, bag them and label them, then go shoot.
Might save some trips to the range to find what you want.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

I just read some info on H110/296 on another forum that was very interesting. The poster was explaining why under loading this powder can cause EXCESSIVE pressures. Always wondered why I kept seeing that posted here and there and now I understand. I would copy-and-paste,but rather than risking issues with that I'll just paraphrase what they wrote:

The poster began by saying that"the powder needs to nearly fill the cavity between the primer and the bullet to avoid exposing a larger surface area of the powder to the primer's ignition. When the initial blast occurs and a proper load is in front of it,the surface area of the powder is limited to roughly the diameter of the case,but if the charge is light,the powder surface will angle off,providing a greater surface area exposed to the blast. This,in turn,will create a pressure spike because the powder is designed to burn slowly from one granule to the next in a steady burst of pressure rather than all at once,so,too LITTLE powder can cause higher pressure."

In no way am I trying to take credit for what I just paraphrased. I'm simple relaying to those that might be interested an explanation that instantly opened my eyes to this hard-to-grasp phenomena. I just could not understand how too little powder spelled unsafe pressure. Now I understand clearly. I hope this helps others just starting out with reloading as I am. The answer,as I see it,is creating a "controlled" burn. Slow and steady. Another point he made also intrigued me: Barrel length can partially reduce the dangers of overcharging. If the powder is still burning after the bullet exits the barrel,no harm done. It's just burned off in a visible flame. I'm going to have to give that one a little more thought,but it does seem to make sense.
I would also like to apologize in advance if a member here has already pointed these things out. THR is a huge forum and there is no way I could possibly have read everything written about this subject. I am not trying to take anything away from anyone what they have already contributed to THR. Just thought others may not have come across this and still struggling to understand as was I.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

A pic to emphasize ArchAngelCD's point about the cannelure on the 180gr bullet being wider than other bullets in the XTP lineup.

[colonelhogan44]

I shoot the 180 XTP HP over 13.5 all the time. Great load, if you're loading magnum, load magnum. If you want soft loads, shoot a .22 :evil:

[Ruger GP100 fan]

For anyone it might interest...HP/XTP cannalures left to right 110,125,158,180 . Actually,in this photo the 158gr appears to have the widest cannelure.

colonelhogan44,what col do you seat them at?

[ArchAngelCD]

A pic to emphasize ArchAngelCD's point about the cannelure on the 180gr bullet being wider than other bullets in the XTP lineup.
Thank you "Ruger GP100 fan", you put up a great example of what I was taking about. Those are very good pictures too, you can actually see the detail on the bullets. I guess that's why they say, "A picture is worth a 1000 words!" ;)

[gamestalker]

I load a lot with those 2 powders, and my experiece has been to watch for low pressures when down below minimum or at minimum charges. Lower pressures can of course result in the bullet failing to make the entire trip down the barrel, especially with jacketed bullets.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Thank you "Ruger GP100 fan", you put up a great example of what I was taking about. Those are very good pictures too, you can actually see the detail on the bullets. I guess that's why they say, "A picture is worth a 1000 words!" ;)
You are quite welcome,ArchAngelCD. I discovered that shooting ammo on flat black construction paper works pretty good. It doesn't reflect light from the flash that always causes reflections and make details harder to see.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

At 13.3gr these were my heaviest loads. Could I get some feedback? I'm still learning how to read brass. Thanks

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Although Winchester/Hodgdon list very different pressures between minimum and maximum loads for 110gr and 25gr bullets using 296/H110,a post by gamestalker on this thread has me wondering why he got no noticeable increase in ft/sec. If the bullet has already left the barrel before all of the powder burns,can pressures still rise? Perhaps it might not be appropriate to post this because of all of us new to reloading,but I can't help but wonder if it's even possible to load the lighter bullets too hot. At maximum recommended charges the case is already nearly to capacity when the bullet is seated and obviously the bullet is long gone if the powder is still burning and shooting flames. Why do they show increased pressures? Any thoughts?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=578127

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Another pic...same 6 pieces.

[Walkalong]

Primers look great.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Primers look great.

Thanks for you feedback,Walkalong.
Guess I've found a good recipe. Might try another tenth of a gram or perhaps 2. BTW,I did not consider these rounds to be particularly "unruly". Not sure I'll be loading a lot of 180gr,but at least I'll have something to fall back on if I want a round with maximum stopping capability for the 357.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Here's a shot of the same rounds posted above but from a different angle,perhaps giving a better representation of where the bullet is seated in relationship to the cannalure. A couple of you suggested cranking the die down a hair further,but I'm not sure if you meant just the crimping die or to seat the bullet deeper. The col is currently at 1.575,so I just brought the crimping portion of the die down a hair and left the col the same. Look ok? Bullet still need to go deeper? I want to finish loading these tonight so I can move on to some 44mags.
Thank you all,again,for your help and moral support. What with my son-in-law working so many hours I have looked to you guys at THR for mentoring and I'm sure glad this forum is here. Learning to reload is no easy task with no help at all so I look to you for support. I want to learn reloading the right way the first time so I don't have to relearn and struggle to shake off back reload practices.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Wrong pic. Here's same col with heavier crimp.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Just returned from the range from firing some loads with one more gr H110. These are 180gr HP/XTP,CCI 550 primers,and 13.4 gr of H110 (.1gr below Winchester's max according to their reload data on their website)seated to 1.575. Shot from a Ruger GP100 with 6" barrel. Does anyone see signs of over loads? If not I intend to load some to Win max recommended powder of 13.5 and call it a day.
I am working on finding just the right chrono to fit my needs and am really excited about having the capability to get real ft/sec data for my hand loads! This reloading is great fun!!!

[Walkalong]

They look great. Still very nicely rounded on the edges. No sign of anything wrong with the firing pin indent. :)

[Ruger GP100 fan]

They look great. Still very nicely rounded on the edges. No sign of anything wrong with the firing pin indent. :)
Thank you. Are the primers the only indicator of a load too heavy or just the best. What else should I be looking for,aside from split case mouths that may or may not be directly attributable to loads too heavy?

And,again,I did not consider these rounds to cause overly strong recoil. I think the stock GP100 grips/design can be thanked for most of that.

[Walkalong]

You will notice the case having less blowby on it as the pressure increases. That will be a hint.

If the cases are sticky in the chambers, you can have high pressure, but it could be rough or cruddy chambers as well, or a carbon ring from shooting a lot of specials without cleaning.

Even the primers will lie to you from time to time. Good news is they will more likely show high pressure when the pressure is OK vs showing low pressure when it is not.

You can shoot factory loads and measure the case head for expansion. That will give you something to go by on your reloads. Trouble is this is a fine measurement, and easily misleading. With .38 Spl there will be high pressure long before you see any excess case head expansion. It works better with rifle loads/pressures. With full load .357 it might be helpful, but I have never tried it with pistol rounds.

Cases and primers only give us hints, they are not 100% reliable.

Cases split when they wear out. Hot loads will wear them out faster, but case splits in and of themselves mean nothing. (Unless you managed to split all your new brass the first firing *ouch*)

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Thanks. These cases have been reloaded several times and I've yet to get a single split case. The 13.4 gr loads fell out of the cylinder when I ejected them.
Not sure what you mean by "blowby" tho.

[Walkalong]

Soot and burn marks on cases from powder "blowby". The case swells under pressure and seals the chamber to keep hot high pressure gases from going backwards out of the action. (That's its job) With low pressure the case takes longer to expand and springs back in sooner than with higher pressure, allowing more gas to leak back along the case sooting it or even scorching it. Many great loads soot up cases, but in general, I like to see cases with not much soot and very little to no scorching.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Can a photo of the cases help you identify danger signs in reference to blowby or would you need to see cases shot with minimum amounts of the same powder? These were shot with either 13.3 or 13.4gr( I mixed them before I read your post). Winchester/Hodgdon website calls for a minimum of 13.0 and a maximum of 13.5 grains of 296/H110 behind a 180gr bullet. What,if anything,can you determine by this shot? The gun was thoroughly cleaned prior to shooting these,but not between just 6 at 13.3 and 13.4 gr rounds.

[Walkalong]

Look pretty normal to me.

I have a light load with a Berrys 125 Gr TrFP over 4.0 Grs of Clays that leaves the brass almost new looking. Enough pressure to seal the chamber tightly and burns quick enough to be gone when the case starts returning to shape and the seal gets broken. A short high pressure curve vs a long slow one using W-296/H-110.

A quick load comparison would be interesting to see.

Anyway, the brass looks fine.

[Ruger GP100 fan]

Thank you for your input.