Carrying in Hotels in NC


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dcdub
March 1, 2011, 05:52 PM
I apologize if this has already been discussed, I did a search on the forum here but it didn't return any results specific to my situation.

So here in the great state of North Carolina, it is currently (hopefully not for long) illegal to carry a firearm into any establishment that sells alcohol for on-premise consumption. Does this include hotels with restaurant/bars? I'm going out of town this weekend and would like to not have anything to worry about in regards to this. Thanks for the info

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Gouranga
March 1, 2011, 08:04 PM
No it does not. However, IF the hotel does have a bar/grill attached you may not go into the attached bar/grill.

Also, beware of posted hotels, there are a few.

and take this for what it's worth...I am not a lawyer.

dcdub
March 1, 2011, 09:19 PM
I guess the restaurants within the hotel are usually a separate business... At this particular hotel there's really no distinction of where the hotel ends and the restaurant begins. It's kinda just out there in the lobby. I don't recall it being posted last time I was there

cleardiddion
March 2, 2011, 02:25 AM
My folks ran a bar and grill that was attached to a Travelodge for about 10 years.
Generally, whoever owns the hotel/motel/whatnot owns the attachment and leases/rents the property. So, that might be something to consider.

Gouranga
March 2, 2011, 08:52 AM
With the recent NRA convention in Charlotte they have a major issue with one of the hotels banning firearms in the hotel. The hotel, claimed because they served drinks in one section of the lobby that it was illegal to carry. A number of lawyers jumped on that and pointed out it was not. They made the point of going to the front desk of the hotel and ordering drinks (which they could not do), and used that to point out that the hotel lobby was NOT a place that served alcohol.

DK24
March 2, 2011, 10:32 AM
No it does not. However, IF the hotel does have a bar/grill attached you may not go into the attached bar/grill.

Also, beware of posted hotels, there are a few.

Thats my understanding of it.

Carter
March 2, 2011, 10:40 AM
My CCW instructor told us that if a building has a business in it that serves alcohol then that whole building is off limits. His example was a mall that had a Chili's in it.

I always thought that was b.s., but I guess when your instructor is a LEO it makes you comply with it. However, he did talk a lot of b.s.

This may be one of those things where its not entirely clear till someone goes to court over it.

dcdub
March 2, 2011, 11:26 AM
Would you happen to be able to cite any references or case examples DK24? You seem to be quite resourceful

DK24
March 2, 2011, 12:21 PM
Would you happen to be able to cite any references or case examples DK24? You seem to be quite resourceful

Generally speaking under common law a motel room would be considered a temporary dwelling. However, businesses do have the right to prohibit firearms. If I have time Iíll see if I can find some case law (if there is any).

My CCW instructor told us that if a building has a business in it that serves alcohol then that whole building is off limits. His example was a mall that had a Chili's in it.

I canít see anyone interpreting the law this way but then again I have heard some far out interpretations from Leoís, especially Ale.
I can see the logic behind prohibiting CCW in a place where alcohol is served, but a not from a temporary dwelling. These are two totally different circumstances.

ForumSurfer
March 2, 2011, 12:38 PM
I can see the logic behind prohibiting CCW in a place where alcohol is served

I can't...but that's another story. House bill 111 seeks to change this. I'm not saying I want to carry in a bar...but I don't like being forced to disarm whenever I take my family out to eat to a restaurant that serves alcohol.

Generally speaking under common law a motel room would be considered a temporary dwelling

That's my interpretation, as well.

I carry when I'm in a motel...I just avoid the bar. It is what it is. Last time I stayed at a Hyatt in Charlotte, someone broke into a large number of cars in the parking lot so I'm glad I didn't leave it in the car! The guy next to me had his lockbox stolen from his SUV (Not hard to do. Unless you bold it to the frame and weld in reinforcing plates all it takes is a pry-bar to extricate the box.). The parking lot was well lit, in a nice area of town, posted and recorded. What did all of these extra steps do? Well, not much. (Don't take that wrong, I appreciate their effort to make my stay as safe as possible...but a crook will find a way.) They had some guy's bright, shining face for all the world to see. No criminal record so the prints didn't match up to anyone.

Uteridge
March 2, 2011, 12:43 PM
Sounds like your CCW instructor is FOS. I wish there was a way to report LEO's that don't know the law and just make stuff up as they go. I have a lot of friends who are LEO's and will probably become one when/if I get out of the Marine Corps. If your entire job is to enforce the law then it stands to reason that the single major job requirement is to know and understand the law. Not to mention that this guy should not be teaching CCW if he doesn't know the law as it pertains to concealed carry.

Gouranga
March 2, 2011, 12:43 PM
I always thought that was b.s., but I guess when your instructor is a LEO it makes you comply with it. However, he did talk a lot of b.s.

No offense to any LEOs on here but I have found very often they are NOT experts on the law or its interpretations and on many occasions can be biased heavily on their interpretation by their own political leanings(they are human after all).

A perfect example, my sister is a cop, a good and hard working cop. We had a discussion on firearms laws. I actually filled her in on the laws. She was not aware of them to the extent I would have expected an officer to be. She has been on the force 20 years.

I had a pleasant conversation with a local officer in which I filled him in on NC general statutes around concealed and open carry. He had been on the force 5 years and simply did not know the laws.

In short, just because a person is an LEO does not mean he is aware of the law or interprets it correctly. To be fair, with all the time I have spent reading and discussing NC GS, I still learn new things about it.

Gouranga
March 2, 2011, 12:45 PM
I'm not saying I want to carry in a bar...

Why not? The law already says if your BAC is anywhere above 0.0 you cannot carry a firearm. If they allowed carrying in a bar, you still could not consume alcohol (i.e. impair your judgment), and carry a firearm.

dcdub
March 2, 2011, 12:58 PM
HB 111 isn't intended to allow carry into a bar.

AN ACT TO ALLOW PERSONS WITH CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMITS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IN RESTAURANTS AND TO ALLOW A CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMITTEE TO CARRY A HANDGUN IN A PARK.
The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts:
SECTION 1. G.S. 14-269.3(b) is amended by adding a new subdivision to read:
"(5) A person on the premises of an establishment that is a restaurant under
G.S. 18B-1000(2) or G.S. 18B-1000(6), provided the person has a valid
concealed handgun permit under Article 54B of Chapter 14 of the General
Statutes."

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/pdf/bysection/chapter_18b/gs_18b-1000.pdf

"To qualify as a restaurant, an establishment's gross receipts from food and nonalcoholic beverages shall not be less than thirty percent (30%) of the total gross receipts from food, nonalcoholic beverages, and alcoholic beverages."

So basically you can't carry into a bar that doesn't serve food, which I can't even really think of any... Maybe dance clubs or something. I don't know, certainly not my scene

DK24
March 2, 2011, 01:11 PM
I can't...but that's another story. House bill 111 seeks to change this. I'm not saying I want to carry in a bar...but I don't like being forced to disarm whenever I take my family out to eat to a restaurant that serves alcohol. Just for the record, I donít 100 percent agree with the logic behind it. IMO, there is a huge difference between a nightclub/bar and Pizza Hut. One I can expect a greater chance of trouble and the other I can feed my family.

No offense to any LEOs on here but I have found very often they are NOT experts on the law or its interpretations and on many occasions can be biased heavily on their interpretation by their own political leanings (they are human after all). None taken. It absolutely drives me nuts to here a LEO interpret the law wrong.

I have also found that LEOs (including myself) are more familiar with laws they use every day than the ones they donít. Most never take time to research case law, therefore never really understand it.

Uteridge
March 2, 2011, 01:19 PM
A bar is a bad place to be in with a weapon anyway. Why would I want to carry a weapon to a place where I know there are going to be other people in an unpredictable and impaired state? I don't want to deal with some drunk trying to pick a fight with me while I am carrying a concealed weapon. Sometimes the best method of self defense is to avoid places where there is a high likelihood of trouble in the first place. That is just a personal opinion. I'm not saying the law is right but I can see the argument that people would make about keeping weapons out of bars.

dcdub
March 2, 2011, 01:21 PM
there is a huge difference between a nightclub/bar and Pizza Hut. One I can expect a greater chance of trouble and the other I can feed my family.

You can feed your family at pizza hut???? :barf:

DK24
March 2, 2011, 01:38 PM
You can feed your family at pizza hut????What??? It's a figure of speach, a restaurant that serves alcohol. Off topic but have you ever tried the Meat lovers deep-pan.WOW! its good.

dcdub
March 2, 2011, 02:51 PM
I got your point Dk, I was just messing with you.

I was going to say that I can't remember the last time I went to a pizza butt, but now that I think about it, I do. A grateful homeowner in Mississippi took a group of us there after working on her house after hurricane Katrina. I can't remember the last time I PAID to eat there, but now that I know they serve alcohol, maybe I will check it out.

ForumSurfer
March 2, 2011, 03:35 PM
Why not? The law already says if your BAC is anywhere above 0.0 you cannot carry a firearm. If they allowed carrying in a bar, you still could not consume alcohol (i.e. impair your judgment), and carry a firearm.

Point taken. You can carry into a bar in NJ if I am not mistaken. We're not seeing mass, drunken shootings on the news from thee. :)

You can feed your family at pizza hut????

Indeed...taking your family pizza hut is a life risking adventure in and of itself. ;)

DK24
March 2, 2011, 04:18 PM
Gee I can't believe you all don't like Pizza Hut. :what:

Sometimes the best method of self defense is to avoid places where there is a high likelihood of trouble in the first place. Thatís good advice. I don't think I have ever carried concealed into bar while off duty and definitely never carried while consuming alcohol.

Hey how do you get the "Originally Posted by whoever" into the quote?

Uteridge
March 2, 2011, 04:41 PM
I have had the same queston about citing qoutes. Can anyone let DK and myself into the ways of the dark side?

Gouranga
March 2, 2011, 04:44 PM
Point taken. You can carry into a bar in NJ if I am not mistaken. We're not seeing mass, drunken shootings on the news from thee

To be honest I would NEVER take a gun into a bar. Really, I have not been to a bar in 6 years. If I were to go to one, it would be to drink and that would mean the firearm stays home. If I were to go and hang out in one as a DD, I would not bring a gun. Like you said, higher prob of a fight or some stupid crud breaking out. Lots of people with diminished capacities for rational thought, OC spray, stun gun (i.e. Less Lethal) protection is good enough for me in such a case.

However, not everyone lives like I do, not everyone has the same habits, and not everyone should have their laws set based on what I do. if you can carry in a bar and follow the laws around alcohol in firearms, then so be it.

Hangingrock
March 2, 2011, 05:13 PM
My CCW instructor told us that if a building has a business in it that serves alcohol then that whole building is off limits. His example was a mall that had a Chili's in it. Thats BS

dcdub
March 2, 2011, 06:50 PM
Thats BS

While I agree that that statement is BS, a little info along with your rebuttal would be nice

Carter
March 2, 2011, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Hangingrock
Thats BS

While I agree that that statement is BS, a little info along with your rebuttal would be nice

Whats sad about that is my instructor who said that claimed to be the pro-gun LEO in his department.

dcdub
March 2, 2011, 08:03 PM
One can be very pro gun but misinformed

ForumSurfer
March 3, 2011, 01:41 AM
To be honest I would NEVER take a gun into a bar. Really, I have not been to a bar in 6 years. If I were to go to one, it would be to drink and that would mean the firearm stays home. If I were to go and hang out in one as a DD, I would not bring a gun. Like you said, higher prob of a fight or some stupid crud breaking out. Lots of people with diminished capacities for rational thought, OC spray, stun gun (i.e. Less Lethal) protection is good enough for me in such a case.

However, not everyone lives like I do, not everyone has the same habits, and not everyone should have their laws set based on what I do. if you can carry in a bar and follow the laws around alcohol in firearms, then so be it.I can agree for the most part. I do believe it should be a choice of the individual, not something forced upon us. It is just another pointless law that is unnecessary. As I said, New Jersey bars aren't world renowned for frequent wild west style shoot outs. :)


Hey how do you get the "Originally Posted by whoever" into the quote?

After the 1st quote tag, simply place "=user". I'll remove the 1st and last bracket for an example:

QUOTE=dk24]Hey how do you get the "Originally Posted by whoever" into the quote?[/QUOTE

DK24
March 3, 2011, 08:07 AM
After the 1st quote tag, simply place "=user". I'll remove the 1st and last bracket for an example: Thanks

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