Trigger discipline fail (vid)


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Blakenzy
March 1, 2011, 11:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR9CLBubXFk&feature=related

Must have been blanks, but still :eek:

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AgentV3
March 2, 2011, 12:58 AM
:what:

Just, wow. Even more that he instantly regained his composure after that and didn't miss a beat considering he was close enough to the muzzle blast that his hat blew off.

nwilliams
March 2, 2011, 01:46 AM
WOW!:eek:

I don't who I would hate to be more, the guy who almost got his head blown off or the guy who almost shot his fellow soldier in the back of the head!:uhoh:

essayons21
March 2, 2011, 02:00 AM
Im actually going to say that was an AD, not an ND.

The weapon went off after pulling the charging handle back with the right hand, while holding it by the forend with the left hand. Pretty hard to hit the trigger in that position. I'm thinking dirty/stuck firing pin.

Lucky it was blanks.

Sam Cade
March 2, 2011, 02:03 AM
Who wants to bet it was a slamfire from a rifle that was dryfired so much that the firing pin was peened in such a matter that is stuck out past the breechface.

THe way they were charging those rifles the firing hand was nowhere near the trigger.

Sam Cade
March 2, 2011, 02:04 AM
Ninja'ed by essayons21!

Nushif
March 2, 2011, 02:15 AM
Definitely not trigger discipline.

There is some funky techniques involved in Honor Guard duties. And some of those (gasp) do not really coincide with ye sacred ruleth of ye venerableth and ultimate authoratitheth NRA.

But yeah, that looked a lot like a bad gun.

On a bit of an unrelated note that is some odd manual of arms for an Honor Guard shoot! Straight Up? Really? Odd. But hey, when in Rome ...

Justin
March 2, 2011, 02:34 AM
Looks like a slamfire to me.

Manco
March 2, 2011, 08:36 AM
While the unintended discharge was probably caused by a slam-fire, it appears that the victim in this case took the muzzle blast pretty squarely on the head/neck area. :uhoh: If that is in fact the case, as opposed to an optical illusion of some sort, then imagine if somebody had accidentally loaded regular cartridges in that rifle instead of blanks. :eek: I guess he probably just took a glancing blow from the spreading gas, but watch the guy behind him appear to fiddle with his rifle a little right before the discharge. :scrutiny:

Nushif
March 2, 2011, 02:49 PM
I do have to question at this point how many folks here have done any sort of Honor Guard or Honor Battery work.
While of course an ND like that will have its consequences ... and bad ones at that, something like that isn't exactly news. The procedures involved in the *highly* ritualized ceremonies are by far not the safest, hence we use blanks that are very, very clearly marked, or look nothing like a real bullet.
The guy "fiddling with his rifle" before may have been adjusting any hand for uniformity purposes. (Imagine for a second having to have your arm at the same angle as the guy to your right.) He may or may not have done *anything* with his firing hand. Sorry if I keep pounding this, but calling stuff like this the guys fault for "fiddling with his rifle" is akin to saying it's unsafe to move at an IDPA shoot with a loaded weapon.
There is some inherent risk in this endeavor. And this is really not all that wild. I've heard of twitchy gunners set off a 105 prematurely. (Never seen it, luckily) Hells, we even had a double fire one time on ours because one gun malf'd and there was some small confusion who takes the next shot. What you do is roll on like nothing happened.

DoubleTapDrew
March 2, 2011, 03:04 PM
Here's an example of trigger discipline fail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1fnR1_T2XA

Manco
March 2, 2011, 06:31 PM
I do have to question at this point how many folks here have done any sort of Honor Guard or Honor Battery work.

I automatically assumed that most of us haven't (I sure haven't).

While of course an ND like that will have its consequences ... and bad ones at that, something like that isn't exactly news.

It might not be new news, but it has bad consequences (or rather commentary) here for the same reasons that it has bad consequences for the people involved.

The procedures involved in the *highly* ritualized ceremonies are by far not the safest, hence we use blanks that are very, very clearly marked, or look nothing like a real bullet.

Your organization did, but maybe some others don't. Who knows? Some actors have been killed by NDs right on the movie set (e.g. Brandon Lee), which should have been quite free of bullets (but were not). I've also read about several cases (among many more) about cops who mistakenly shot one another with their pistols that clearly did not look like the ones loaded with simunitions, but there you go....

The guy "fiddling with his rifle" before may have been adjusting any hand for uniformity purposes. (Imagine for a second having to have your arm at the same angle as the guy to your right.) He may or may not have done *anything* with his firing hand. Sorry if I keep pounding this, but calling stuff like this the guys fault for "fiddling with his rifle" is akin to saying it's unsafe to move at an IDPA shoot with a loaded weapon.

I wasn't drawing any conclusions from that, just pointing out something that looked suspicious, whether it was actually related or not (I wouldn't know but maybe somebody could figure it out). My guess was and still is that the rifle malfunctioned in some way, and I was looking for some additional evidence for it.

And by the way, was that rifle pointed right at the other guy's head, and if it was, then is it standard procedure in these drills for a loaded rifle (albeit loaded with blanks, but those can still be dangerous) to be pointed at somebody while charging the bolt? Trigger discipline isn't the only rule of safety, after all.

There is some funky techniques involved in Honor Guard duties. And some of those (gasp) do not really coincide with ye sacred ruleth of ye venerableth and ultimate authoratitheth NRA.

I can understand bending the rules for the sake of presentation, but come on!

On a bit of an unrelated note that is some odd manual of arms for an Honor Guard shoot! Straight Up? Really? Odd. But hey, when in Rome ...

I guess not all such organizations do everything the same way.

NMGonzo
March 2, 2011, 06:36 PM
The one that lost the beret is a really well disciplined man.

KodiakBeer
March 2, 2011, 06:43 PM
The one that lost the beret is a really well disciplined man.

Dazed and deaf, but well disciplined!

TexasRifleman
March 2, 2011, 07:08 PM
This has been posted a few times in the last week or so.

The consensus has been that the rifles were loaded with blanks and it was simply the gas from the blank that knocked the hat off.

Who knows, seems reasonable since the guy didn't flinch.

essayons21
March 2, 2011, 09:50 PM
I've heard of twitchy gunners set off a 105 prematurely

Wow, that one must have been tough to explain. No covering it up either.

Nushif
March 3, 2011, 12:09 AM
Wow, that one must have been tough to explain. No covering it up either.

The Artillery doesn't exactly have a great history of covering their deeds up. 8) There's two things in life I regret ... leaving Active Duty and leaving the Artillery.

But yeah, trying to explain why you pulled the trigger on that 105 is one of those moments where you realize your job as Gunner is a pretty important one.

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