TV; Son of a Gun - shotgun suppressor


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rajb123
March 2, 2011, 04:13 PM
Did anyone see the TV show: Son of a Gun, where a shotgun with a suppessor (silencer) is built and sold to the public?

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kingpin008
March 2, 2011, 04:41 PM
Not yet. Why?

wildman6809
March 2, 2011, 04:49 PM
yeah i saw it. it looks kind of cool. it is on their website for sale "red jacket" is the company name

rajb123
March 2, 2011, 04:54 PM
Frankly, I would have thought that it would have run afoul of some gun control law....

Sam1911
March 2, 2011, 05:07 PM
Frankly, I would have thought that it would have run afoul of some gun control law.... It won't run afoul of any law, so long as the registration requirements of the National Firearms Act are followed and the state where the buyer lives doesn't prohibit suppressors/silencers.

They can't be sold "cash and carry" but if the buyer fills out the ATF form 4, pays the tax, and fills out the paperwork correctly to get the tax stamp, it would be perfectly legal, just like a pistol or rifle silencer.

smurf hunter
March 2, 2011, 05:25 PM
Assuming I caught the same episode, a casual shopper walked away when he learned it could take 3-4 months for the NFA stamp and other formalities.

Earlier in that same show, an apparent FFL dealer bought a quantity of saiga-12s with suppressors. I've no idea what might be different/special about inter-FFL transfers for NFA items.

USAF_Vet
March 2, 2011, 05:56 PM
Earlier in that same show, an apparent FFL dealer bought a quantity of saiga-12s with suppressors.

Which could all very well have a waiting period that went unmentioned. I do believe that an FFL to FFL transfer would be easier assuming both FFLs had the proper class 3 title II, yadda yadda legalese mumbo-jumbo.

25cschaefer
March 2, 2011, 11:09 PM
I saw the episode and was wondering what effect it would have on velocities, it looked like they drilled a bunch of holes in a thin barrel and put a larger diameter around it.

rajb123
March 3, 2011, 08:16 AM
Yeh, the velocities are probably very low... it looked like they were shooting slugs and the target hits were all over the map.

Why would anyone want this?

kingpin008
March 3, 2011, 09:14 AM
Yeh, the velocities are probably very low... it looked like they were shooting slugs and the target hits were all over the map.

I'm not super familiar with suppressed shotguns, but in general, rifle and pistol suppressors don't affect the gun's velocity all that much - usually only a psi, with no significant drop in velocity. And there could be a few reasons for the rounds being all over the map - everything from shooter error to imperfect can design. I'm sure whatever they had was essentially still a prototype, so there are bound to be issues to work out.

Why would anyone want this?

Lots of reasons come to mind. Hunting or target shooting in areas where neighbors are sensitive to gunfire, for one. More and more shooting ranges are being threatened by residents of new developments that think they have the right to shut down ranges for noise complaints, even though the ranges were there first. In such a situation, suppressors are an obvious choice.

Shooter safety and comfort is another obvious reason. One reason new shooters can be uncomfortable when shooting guns is due to the loud report of the gun. With a suppressor, that isn't as much of a problem. Also, it can be tough for a shooter to get a proper cheek weld on a long gun when wearing certain types of hearing protection. A suppressor would help here as well.

Suppressors are legal and encouraged in other countries for all of these reasons and more. It's somewhat frustrating that we're so far behind the curve, as it were, when it comes to accepting them as a legitimate tool in the shooter's arsenal.

Sam1911
March 3, 2011, 09:43 AM
but in general, rifle and pistol suppressors don't affect the gun's velocity all that much - usually only a psi, with no significant drop in velocity.Actually, it's often the opposite. A suppressor will act like a slightly lower pressure barrel extension and boost the muzzle velocity a little bit.

I've watched this with a pal's 9mm can where he'd loaded rounds right to the limit of subsonic, and adding the can boosted them just enough to go supersonic. (Whoops.)

LHRGunslinger
March 3, 2011, 04:35 PM
Good news is you can get them for $2200 here http://redjacketfirearms.com/firearms/firearms.html

25cschaefer
March 3, 2011, 09:45 PM
It did not look like there was a can, justs ports along the entire length of barrel with a can over that. Maybe 4 inches of unported barrel?

Ranb
March 4, 2011, 05:05 AM
Frankly, I would have thought that it would have run afoul of some gun control law....

No idea where you live, but the USA does not ban any kind of firearm. Silencers are only legal in 37 states for unlicensed civilians though. ATF approval is so routine it seems like a rubber stamp, just takes 90 days too long if you ask me. :) Anyone who can own a gun and fill out the paperwork correctly can own a silencer in the USA.

Ranb

Girodin
March 4, 2011, 06:03 AM
Why would anyone want this?

To make the gun more quite. There are all kinds of reasons for that not the least of which are safety concerns. When Will showed the suppressor on the saiga boards long before the show was even announced he said it was hearing safe with buckshot IIRC (I maybe confusing it with the one Tromix showed). I wouldn't mind having a hearing safe S12.

As to shots all over the board, is it possible they really shooting shot? I don't remember the episode well enough to recall.

451 Detonics
March 4, 2011, 08:57 AM
Nothing new...shotgun suppressors have been around for at least since WWII, perhaps earlier. The one on the show wasn't even particularly effective. Also from manufacturer to Class 3 dealer still takes some time as they have to be processed on a form 3. From dealer to customer can take 2-4 months to clear.

Girodin
March 4, 2011, 09:58 PM
Its hearing safe indoors, why do you say it is not particularly effective? What available suppressor is quieter on a semi auto 12 gauge?

DoubleTapDrew
March 4, 2011, 10:16 PM
Any centerfire can that's hearing safe indoors is pretty effective in my book

rjrivero
March 6, 2011, 12:34 AM
Actually, it's often the opposite. A suppressor will act like a slightly lower pressure barrel extension and boost the muzzle velocity a little bit.

I've watched this with a pal's 9mm can where he'd loaded rounds right to the limit of subsonic, and adding the can boosted them just enough to go supersonic. (Whoops.)

Freebore boost is a truth when you put a suppressor on the end of a gun barrel, but when you start drilling into a barrel to build it as an integrated suppressor/barrel combo, I would suspect you would indeed have a pressure loss, compared to an standard barrel, and therefore you would probably have a significant velocity loss. Of course this is pure speculation. A chronometer wouldn't lie......

Sam1911
March 6, 2011, 09:01 AM
That's a good point.

davepl
March 9, 2011, 08:37 PM
I assumed slugs as well, but he briefly mentions that they are constrained by the expansion rate of the shot. They don't say a lot about how it works in an attempt to make it look like its never been done before (maybe it hasn't, don't know).

RhinoDefense
March 12, 2011, 10:26 PM
The barrel extension is ported and suppressor baffles surround this, then the tube is welded in place. This is the industry standard. The barrel extension holds the wad together so it doesn't split. Shotgun suppressors can't be made by conventional "other" designs even if slugs are used because slugs still use a wad or a sabot.

Lucky Derby
March 12, 2011, 11:16 PM
The strange thing is that every other piece of noisey equipment we use is REQUIRED BY LAW to have a noise supressor. But on guns it is restricted?

Your car, motorcycle, power boat, lawn mower, chainsaw, weedwhacker.... the list goes on and on.

Kino74
March 13, 2011, 12:12 AM
I'd take a suppressor for a shotgun any day. Course I would want a SBS Saiga S-12 to go along with it. And a MD 20 rd drum.

This one individual over on silencertalk.com describes it just right.

I own an Tromix S17 and an Red Jacket 12ga suppressor.. I shot it all morning at the range today and have to say that it makes my shotty a joy to shoot around others.. It cuts the blast by half and I shoot it with no ears if I want to.. My eyes bleed without it on...

Slug-O :mrgreen:

Sounds like a ton of fun. :D

xcgates
March 13, 2011, 10:22 PM
Ever spent all day shooting a shotgun? My delicate hearing is as good a reason as any other for suppressor.

Looks like I'm not the first in the thread to point out the interesting fact that most everything that makes noise is required to have a muffler of some kind, yet a gun requires a device that carries a permit in the form of a $200 stamp of approval from "the government."

Boanerges57
March 13, 2011, 11:26 PM
suppressed shotguns have been made for decades.
they are legal in single shot in britain, or at least were still 10 years ago. They were used by poachers back in the 30s and 40s there. they were still being made in calibers up to 12ga up until the late 90s at least.
They were made in single shot and designed to fold down rapidly to be concealed (by poachers). They were perfectly legal to own, the gun laws there permitted silencing of rimfire reguardless of caliber and had allowances for shotguns also.

dprice3844444
March 19, 2011, 03:03 PM
somebody made a comment about shotgun ammo in vietnam.they had to make it useing brass casing shells as that was a time of paper casings,which would swell due to moisture,and the plastic casings which came after that would melt if you were in a major firefight due to excessive heat build up.brenneke slugs should be used in suppressed shotguns as they do not have a plastic wad to peel off in the holes

KBintheSLC
March 19, 2011, 04:09 PM
The shotgun was a cool idea, but I almost puked when they butchered that perfect Browning 1919 mg. It was downright sacrilegious.

halogrinder
March 21, 2011, 10:30 PM
that show is a joke. its all set up.

JTW Jr.
March 29, 2011, 10:02 PM
Be curious to know what that sheriff paid for the conversion of the Thompson from semi to full ( select fire ) , he could have surely bought a LE Thompson for less.

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