Why no love for PARA Ord - LDA


PDA






Jimineer
March 2, 2011, 10:56 PM
I don't see much on any forums that I follow about the Para LDA (DAO?) type pistols. Colt recently came out with a New Agent looking 9mm that is DAO. I like the looks and idea of the PDX LDA series for CC. Just not sure of the reliability, esp. since I don't see / hear much about them.

Anyway, just wanted to resurrect a discussion on them. Note: I'm not suggesting as a replacement for a 1911 necessarily, but for anyone not comfortable with Condition 1 carry, who knows.

Thanks.

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Ric
March 2, 2011, 11:41 PM
I have a CCO LDA
love it and carry it often.
http://img529.imageshack.us/i/para457xg1uw4.jpg/

azranger
March 2, 2011, 11:53 PM
I had a C-7 LDA Companion and I thought the LDA system is still the safest way to carry a .45. That said, the damm thing was heavyer than a brick to
carry all day. Had to give it up for a Colt Defender at 25 ozs. :cool:

Nushif
March 3, 2011, 12:11 AM
Had a LDA gun once. Sweet Trigger! Should never have traded it in. 8)

Quiet
March 3, 2011, 12:19 AM
Not sure if it's changed, but during the early-2000s, Long Beach PD recruits were issued the Para-Ordnance P-7.45 LDA for use while they were going through the academy. After graduation, they had to turn them in and get their own sidearm.

My brother went through the Long Beach PD Academy and let me shoot his issued Para-Ordnance P-7.45 LDA. It was accurate, reliable (more reliable than the Para-Ordnance double-stack single-action 1911s) and had the best double action trigger ever put on a 1911.

If I had to get a double-action 1911, it would be a single-stack Para LDA.

dawico
March 3, 2011, 12:27 AM
I love my Para 14.45 LDA. The trigger is great, but the gun only has about 1000 rounds through it, so no long term reliability test. I think Para makes a great 1911, especially compared to guns in its price range.

rkammer
March 3, 2011, 01:11 AM
I've had my Para Tac-Four for about 8 years now. It's one of my all time favorite guns period much less favorite 1911s. The LDA trigger is about the smoothest DAO trigger you will encounter and the gun carries cocked and locked with the hammer DOWN. I'd stake my life on my Para.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Raykamm/Guns/P1010011m.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Raykamm/Guns/P1010012m.jpg

harmon rabb
March 3, 2011, 06:34 AM
To me, a DA 1911 is like a woman with a penis. Just not what god intended. :D

Just One Shot
March 3, 2011, 09:06 AM
To me, a DA 1911 is like a woman with a penis. Just not what god intended.
Actually, IMO it's the very thing the 1911 platform needed. I had a Para LDA CCW that had the best DA trigger of any handgun I've ever shot. In fact, it was even better than every 1911 SA trigger I've ever shot!
:eek:
:D

earlthegoat2
March 3, 2011, 09:16 AM
Im glad someone brought this up because I have been seeing quite a few remarks against Para-Ord in general. They seem to have a really bad internet reputation. Maybe you can conclude from such a bad internet reputation they are in fact bad guns.

That has not been my experience. When I wanted to get back into 1911 I bought a P13 from the early nineties. It was loose but shot everything I put through it. I changed the springs out even though they did not need it and it still shot everything.

Sold that and got a P14 and had the same luck. Sold that and got a CCW LDA to try out the new trigger. I was skeptical about it at first but soon realized it is a very viable option in the world of 1911s. Some could say it is a modern compromise for an old design to enhance competition with the newer striker fired designs that are all the rage now.

They are heavy. But so are all 1911s. Get an alloy framed one if you must. I never had any problems with the old extractor either. I guess the new power extractor is better but I sure dont know.

Despite all this I have heard constant negatives about the Warthogs. I know of a 9mm version that runs 100% but the 45s I have never actually heard a good report on and since I dont own one and never will (I hate compact 1911s) I wont be able to give it proper amount of attention to see for myself.

The Para GI expert seems to have bad reviews by a ton of folks who have never handled one. I would not hesitate to buy it if that is what I wanted. I know I would buy it 10 times over the Remington R1 ,which I am sure runs fine as well, but since it costs more my ticket is with the Para.

rkammer
March 3, 2011, 09:38 AM
To me, a DA 1911 is like a woman with a penis. Just not what god intended. :D
Well, God didn't have to walk around heaven all day with a gun strapped to his hip. If he had, I'm sure some of his angels would have been a bit freaked be seeing that cocked hammer and would have been put at ease had he carried a Para LDA. As for women with penis's well,.....................???

Jimineer
March 3, 2011, 07:57 PM
Most if not all favorable comments on the Para LDA. I just expected some bashing. Although only a small sampling the results look favorable. I do like the idea of a DAO 1911.

Thanks for the feedback.

Walkalong
March 3, 2011, 10:12 PM
I tried the LDA trigger for the first time recently, and it was quite nice. I was very impressed.

P30shtr
March 3, 2011, 10:27 PM
Why do they even put a safety on it if its LDA? Isn't that the Idea, longer/heavier,SAFER. Maybe just to stay true to the 1911 platform?? Not trying to be smart, I don't own one, nor have fired one. Although intrigued. For a poly guy looking to jump into the 1911 market that seems awfully nice. No safety to click off during the draw. SA for the range-YES, LDA for carry, seems a no-brainer.

Quiet
March 3, 2011, 11:44 PM
Why do they even put a safety on it if its LDA? Isn't that the Idea, longer/heavier,SAFER. Maybe just to stay true to the 1911 platform?? Not trying to be smart, I don't own one, nor have fired one. Although intrigued. For a poly guy looking to jump into the 1911 market that seems awfully nice. No safety to click off during the draw. SA for the range-YES, LDA for carry, seems a no-brainer.
The Para LDA is a double-action only with about a 5 lbs trigger pull that is not that long.
Some people like having a manual safety on a pistol with that light of a trigger pull.

Nushif
March 3, 2011, 11:45 PM
for the folks who don't know what an LDA trigger is ... before we continue spreading more misinformation.

It is not actually a double action trigger in the conventional sense. It has a trigger pull that's very, very similar to a 1911 and needs to be cocked by racking the slide. It is *not* a DAO or Striker fired trigger. It is *not* long and it is *not heavy.
As a matter of fact I'd be very leery carrying a LDA trigger gun without an external safety. And I'm perfectly fine with carrying a Glock or Kahr, even with lightened triggers.

rkammer
March 3, 2011, 11:57 PM
Why do they even put a safety on it if its LDA? Isn't that the Idea, longer/heavier,SAFER. Maybe just to stay true to the 1911 platform?? Not trying to be smart, I don't own one, nor have fired one. Although intrigued. For a poly guy looking to jump into the 1911 market that seems awfully nice. No safety to click off during the draw. SA for the range-YES, LDA for carry, seems a no-brainer.
Well, I think that there is a safety on the LDA for several reasons. First of all, it's still a 1911 based gun so the frame is outfitted anyway. Second, and perhaps more important, is the manner in which the LDA trigger works. LDA stands for "light double action" and it is indeed a VERY light double action. The LDA trigger isn't at all like a DA revolver as many may think. The trigger pull has two distinctly different stages. Since the hammer was partially cocked on the previous action of the slide and then allowed to go down to a rest position, the first 3/4 of the trigger pull is very light, perhaps only 1 to 2 lbs. Then, when the trigger reaches the point of releasing the sear, the pull becomes very much like a standard 1911 single action. My Tac-Four LDA in this second stage, has a very crisp pull at about 4 lbs and is factory stock.

So, in summary, the Para LDA has kind of a two stage trigger which is much lighter than the plastic striker fired guns. Many LDA users when target shooting will actually pull the trigger in stages. The first stage is a rapid pull just to the point of sear release and then the second stage which is like a single action 1911. It's really quite unique and there's not another gun that I'm aware of that works like that. If you are curious about the LDA you should try one at your favorite gun shop or range.

Is the LDA as accurate as a single action 1911? In slow fire and when staging the trigger, it is every bit as accurate IMO. In rapid fire I lose some accuracy but some of the pros like Todd Jarrett will say it gives up nothing.

So, why is the LDA a viable design? Many have said that the Para LDA is "a perceived solution to a non-existent problem". For the 1911 owner that is just not comfortable with carrying in Condition 1 with a visibly cocked hammer but, still wants the pistol ready to fire with just a pull of the trigger, the LDA is the answer.

Pardon the rant. I'm obviously a Para LDA fan.

P30shtr
March 4, 2011, 12:01 AM
for the folks who don't know what an LDA trigger is ... before we continue spreading more misinformation.

It is not actually a double action trigger in the conventional sense. It has a trigger pull that's very, very similar to a 1911 and needs to be cocked by racking the slide. It is *not* a DAO or Striker fired trigger. It is *not* long and it is *not heavy.
As a matter of fact I'd be very leery carrying a LDA trigger gun without an external safety. And I'm perfectly fine with carrying a Glock or Kahr, even with lightened triggers.
In that case, Why would one get the LDA other than the fact they like Para. Why not just carry a standard 1911 with a 4#ish trigger pull and carry it C1. Neg. discharges maybe, the only reason I see. You are only one example, how bout the rest, anyone carry LDA no safety? Again, not trying to be smart, just trying to understand the point. What is the trigger pull?? Glocks are 5#-ish and people carry those every day (just for comparison/weight). I understand you said its not like a striker fired pistol but trigger pull weight is trigger pull weight. Before we continue spreading misinformation what does LDA stand for in the first place? I always thought it was Light DA or Long DA. Kind of getting rid of the need for a safety on the 1911 platform but, you seem to think otherwise. As far as that goes it kind of seems like Para is doing the misleading right off the bat??

Edit
Thanks rkammer, summed it up a bit. Saw youre post once I was done typing.

P30shtr
March 4, 2011, 12:14 AM
. It has a trigger pull that's very, very similar to a 1911 and needs to be cocked by racking the slide.


So, you must cock the pistol for the first shot? Its not hammer down and fire away. I guess that doesnt really matter though does it if the trigger pull is that light. I never really looked into it, just took it for what it sounded like. Figured it was like any other DA pistol, (you know what they say when you assume) 5-7# range trigger, no safety needed, just thought it might be a bit nicer because it was a 1911, cleaner, crisper, better break,etc. Apparently not. Saved by the forums again. Thanks THR/members

rkammer
March 4, 2011, 12:40 AM
So, you must cock the pistol for the first shot? Its not hammer down and fire away. I guess that doesnt really matter though does it if the trigger pull is that light. I never really looked into it, just took it for what it sounded like. Figured it was like any other DA pistol, (you know what they say when you assume) 5-7# range trigger, no safety needed, just thought it might be a bit nicer because it was a 1911, cleaner, crisper, better break,etc. Apparently not. Saved by the forums again. Thanks THR/members
The LDA trigger works the same for the first shot and all subsequent shots. When you insert the mag into the gun and rack the slide, the hammer is partially cocked and then is permitted to return to its down position. Every time the gun fires, the slide partially cocks the hammer again and again the hammer returns to the down position. So, the first stage of the LDA trigger pull raises the hammer back to the partially cocked position and then completes the cocking action and releases the sear to fire the gun. (stage 2).

DammitBoy
March 4, 2011, 12:51 AM
I love my Para's and ignore the haters.

No problems with my three wide bodies - Para P14.45, Para P16.40 converted to 10mm and my newest favorite, my Para Warthog P10.45, which runs like a swiss clock.

71Commander
March 4, 2011, 07:39 AM
My two LDA's. I use the P18 for Production in USPSA matches. 10K + rounds without a failure of any kind. I carry the C6-45. Nice compact package.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/para-a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/tucker13/9c1ebdf5.jpg

scaatylobo
March 4, 2011, 07:52 AM
I too have an LDA and the reason it gets no holster time is = IT TOO HEAVY.

I also have a Kimber CDP II that is larger to EDC but more comfortable due to the weight [ alloy frame ].

I would LOVE to trade the LDA for a same model,but Lt weight.

It did not like the 1943 military ball,as it diod not hit the primer as hard as the SA 1911's do.

sliverflinger
March 4, 2011, 01:18 PM
I know it sounds silly, but the extra weight of six rounds+ bulk, are the only reasons my 12.45 doesn't get out more. IMHO the trigger is a thing of beauty.For all day carry I use a Detonics CM .

dawico
March 4, 2011, 01:24 PM
Do any of their models have restrike capabilities? Mine does not, and I am just curious of any other models do.

25cschaefer
March 4, 2011, 01:34 PM
I have handled a few Para dao and the action does not lock up like the single actions.

wgp
March 4, 2011, 01:40 PM
Adding to the chorus, I have a Carry 12 and a Carry 9. Excellent pistols and I like the LDA, even though I usually carry a Condition 1 1911. I much prefer the LDA trigger to the DA/SA triggers on other pistols -- I want the trigger pull the same on every shot.

The Carry 12 is a bit heavy for daily carry IWB -- widebody, steel gun, 12 rounds of .45 adds up. I just prefer the "feel" of my EMP 9 over the Carry 9, but the Carry 9 is still a very good pistol. But, none of this has anything to do with the LDA -- it's a good system that works.

mljdeckard
March 4, 2011, 05:25 PM
I think they exist to bridge the gap for cops who like 1911s and departments who don't trust them with a SA-only auto.

They aren't terrible, but there was nothing about them that makes me want one over a traditional action.

Nushif
March 4, 2011, 05:27 PM
I think they exist to bridge the gap for cops who like 1911s and departments who don't trust them with a SA-only auto.

That honestly makes a lot of sense to me.

marine29
July 11, 2011, 11:11 PM
I have owned a tac four for a week and I love the lda trigger for carry and duty use. I am having some feeding issues and I had the hammer break clean off yesterday; I'm sending it back to Para for service.

flinch
July 12, 2011, 07:37 PM
One of the best triggers out there. It has improved my skills greatly. You can stage it, set your sights and then have this beautiful let off. I don't really think of it as a 1911 though.

Strahley
July 12, 2011, 08:13 PM
Hard to love something that makes no sense

Haycreek
July 12, 2011, 09:08 PM
I like mine, it performs as it should. very reliable and accurate.

w2fnt
July 12, 2011, 09:31 PM
I worked on tons of them in the warranty repair facility when it was here in TN. Let's put it this way...you would have to pay me to take one of them and I really like all guns, from Glock to 1911's

Sniper X
July 12, 2011, 09:48 PM
I had a Para LDA 645, but hated the trigger. Most 1911 pureists I know also do. however, if I had never fired a real 1911, I would probably have liked it. I now have only one Para, an LTC which IS a real 1911 and shoots great! It is a LTC Para 9mm 1911. And it is soo fun to shoot because it is low recoil and accurate!

Smaug
July 13, 2011, 10:07 AM
On Paras in general, quoting from Page 1:

The Para GI expert seems to have bad reviews by a ton of folks who have never handled one. I would not hesitate to buy it if that is what I wanted. I know I would buy it 10 times over the Remington R1 ,which I am sure runs fine as well, but since it costs more my ticket is with the Para.

I talked to the guys at my local shop, and they said they never have problems with Paras. So I bought the gun and came home to settle into my waiting period. I researched here and on The Firing Line, and found that indeed people were badmouthing it, but would not substantiate anything they said.

I figured: "Oh well, it is too late. I'll have to find out myself."

I had a couple jams in the first hundred rounds, most likely related to my flat tipped 185 gr. bullet reloads. The spring seems a little heavy to me, so I assume it is made for full power 230 gr. loads.

Anyway, I've never had a jam with factory ammo, and now that I've figured out I need to load 185 gr. bullets beyond max. published loads for reliable function, all is well.

I cross-shopped it against a couple of the Springfield Armory models, and found that the finish on the Para is better, the sights are better, and the magazines are better.

I also have a CZ 97B that I took action shooting with me. I'm sure the folks watching thought it was a piece of garbage, because I had still some of the light reloads with flat-tipped bullets and it wasn't feeding well. The day before, I had used the bottom of the magazine to tap out the disassembly pin, but I think I hit the disassembly button of the magazine too, because when I slapped the magazine in the next day at the shoot, it fell apart! Both the jamming and the magazine coming apart were my own fault. Yet the perception of those around me may have been that it is a garbage gun.

I guess my point is not to take any badmouthing seriously, unless it comes from firsthand experience with full disclosure.

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