can someone define "unloaded" for me??


PDA






JohnnyCal55
March 3, 2011, 11:29 PM
I'm trying to find out the legalities of carrying a handgun in my vehicle while I'm under the age of 21 living in Idaho. It seems I can't have a concealed weapons permit until I am 21, and therfore, Idaho law states that a handgun must be in complete view if its in my vehicle, or unloaded in its case. I plan on keeping it under the seat in either the original case or a locked case. Can anyone define loaded for me? Does it mean empty chamber but magazine in the gun, or does it mean no magazine in the gun whatsoever?

If you enjoyed reading about "can someone define "unloaded" for me??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
The-Reaver
March 3, 2011, 11:42 PM
I live in one of the better states for stuff like that, but just for the extra careful nature I carry my PT 92 AF with a loaded magazine next to the pistol in a locked pistol case with the breach open.

deadin
March 3, 2011, 11:50 PM
can someone define "unloaded" for me

It means different things in different states. You will have to get an answer from an Idaho official like your Attorney General's office.

LKB3rd
March 4, 2011, 06:24 AM
Most states have their statutes posted online. If you can find the law in question, that would be the best place to find their definition.

Shadow 7D
March 4, 2011, 06:33 AM
Post your state
sorry but

That is a legal definition, and that requires knowing what laws define....
that said, cased (in accessable) in a separate compartment
Out of reach, with no ammo in ready proximity (best in ammo boxes not in mags) away from the weapon...

some states actually have it defined as no ammo in the gun so many steps from being able to fire.

JohnnyCal55
March 4, 2011, 07:03 AM
Idaho

Manco
March 4, 2011, 09:08 AM
Since Idaho's firearm statutes do not define the term "unloaded" I guess you'll have to rely on the common-sense definition, which to me (for what it's worth) means that there is no ammunition contained in the gun, whether or not a round is chambered or a magazine (empty) is inserted. A nearby magazine containing ammunition that is NOT inserted in the gun should be fine, based on that. I would advise against defining that a gun containing ammunition is still unloaded just because there is no round in the chamber--that's arguable and could therefore get you into trouble.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
March 4, 2011, 09:13 AM
I agree with Manco.
If a loaded magazine were considered to be a gun, then, if I add up all my spare magazines for my various guns - I would have a LOT of guns here!

Now, if the magazine is inserted into the gun, then that is a whole different story as it is then an integral part of the gun!

JohnnyCal55
March 4, 2011, 09:53 AM
Thankyou Manco! That seems to be the most logic idea

deadin
March 4, 2011, 10:13 AM
Wouldn't a magazine in the auto, but an empty chamber be pretty much the same as a revolver with loaded cylinder except for the next chamber coming up empty? (two pulls to fire it.) I'm pretty sure that still would be determined to be "loaded".

1KPerDay
March 4, 2011, 12:40 PM
speculation, while fun, is not helpful to the OP... each state has different determinations on what "loaded" means. From what I've seen it generally has to do with how many actions are needed to make the gun fire, starting at its current condition. Then you have the semantic issues about, for example, whether racking the slide counts as one action or two (1. pulling it back, and 2. releasing it).

The only sensible thing for him to do is look up his local regulations.

Art Eatman
March 4, 2011, 12:47 PM
It seems to me that it's common sense to be conservative when dealing with such a legal issue. So, no rounds in the cylinder of a revolver should be obvious. No magazine in a semi-auto (and no round in the chamber) says to me that it is indeed unloaded.

Why risk somebody else's idea about the magazine in a semi-auto?

Don't sweat "unloaded". Think, "Plumb empty."

PapaG
March 4, 2011, 03:17 PM
In Illinois, unloaded means just that. No ammo anywhere in the gun, or no loaded magazine in the gun. Here, transport is legal only if the gun is unloaded and cased in a box, case, sleeve or other device designed for the purpose. A holster is not a legal transport device. Must be zipped, buckled, snapped, tied, etc.
Lots of IL hunters get ripped each year when they go from one area to another and just slide the gun in the case and don't tie, zip, etc.
Your state will have some definition but I'd bet that unloaded means just what is says...no ammo in the gun, period.

thorn726
March 4, 2011, 03:21 PM
if you want to go full on paranoid, your safest bet until you get real legal advice- If a magazine is within reach of gun, it is "loaded". Here firearm must be empty in locked container and ammo in separate container, for you maybe one under the seat the other in glove box...

Sunray
March 4, 2011, 07:12 PM
"...firearm statutes do not define the term "unloaded"..." They likely do define what 'loaded' is considered to be though. Defining 'unloaded' is kind of like the questions asking what law allows somebody to do whatever. Laws don't tell you what you can do. Only what you cannot.
"...only sensible thing for him to do is look up his local regulations..." Yep.

Smoovbiscuit
March 4, 2011, 09:02 PM
Call your local courthouse or ask a lawyer. I have a similar problem in WA state, I made a thread about it awhile ago. The terms there for loaded seemed to include loaded magazines but didn't seem to include revolver speed loaders, so that is what I will most likely have in my car, but I'm going to contact the local courthouse first to be sure.

I'm sure its different in Idaho though. Good luck to you, I feel your pain, it sucks not being able to legally defend yourself outside your home!

Manco
March 5, 2011, 07:27 AM
"...firearm statutes do not define the term "unloaded"..." They likely do define what 'loaded' is considered to be though.

Well, Idaho's firearm statutes do not define the term "loaded" either, although the term is used a number of times. When I did an exhaustive search of these statutes for any and all related definitions, of course I looked for "loaded" and would have taken its definition into account, had there been one. I simply answered the OP's question as asked.

Defining 'unloaded' is kind of like the questions asking what law allows somebody to do whatever. Laws don't tell you what you can do. Only what you cannot.

Wrong, there are often plenty of exception clauses to slog through that in fact do tell people what they can do, particularly in the case of firearm laws. Sometimes that's the best way to tell people the extremely limited options they have while prohibiting everything else. To illustrate, in California there are both lists of firearms that are specifically prohibited and specifically allowed (excluding the remainder of an entire class of firearm, namely handguns). I wouldn't make too many assumptions about how laws are written.

If you enjoyed reading about "can someone define "unloaded" for me??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!