[napp]

Upon the recommendation of mykeal, I recently purchased The Dutch Schoultz BP Rifle Accuracy System (http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/). Among other things, the System advocates weighing of each lead ball to eliminate inaccuracy (fliers) that would be caused by hidden air bubbles in the ball castings. In a nutshell, the System tells you to determine the heaviest ball from your supply; and then reject any balls that are more than one grain lighter than the heaviest.

I was surprised to find that this methodology resulted in roughly 1/3 of my lead balls going into the reject bin. Balls that I had cast for myself ran ~32% rejections. I also weighed a group of swaged balls that were manufactured by a well-known, commercial manufacturer. Surprisingly, the rejection rate for this group of balls was ~37%.

How many of you guys on the forum weigh your balls before sending them down range? If you do weigh them, what sort of rejection rate are you encountering?

BTW, I would strongly recommend this material compiled by Dutch Schoultz. I consider it the best $20 expenditure I have made since entering the BP sport.

[mykeal]

I weigh the projectiles when I'm doing range work to come up with an optimum load combination. It takes the variability of the projectile out of the mix and allows you to focus on the effects of the one thing you're changing. After coming up with the best load, I tend to allow the pass/fail criteria on projectile weight to relax a bit.

Weighing results:
Hornady .530 round balls - theoretical max 223.5 grains
weighed 36, highest: 226.4 grains, passed 11, failed 25

Speer .535 round balls - theoretical max 229.9 grains
weighed 36, highest: 230.6 grains, passed 25, failed 11

[Oyeboten]

Specific Gravity differential in a molten Alloy, as the lighter Metals may tend to organize themselves above the heavier...depending on how one Casts, stirrs, dips, and so on, one can get Boolits which will weigh differently even if having no Air Voids.


One advantage I suppse, of using pure Lead, is that there would be no seperation by mass in the Melt.


Good mentions on the weighing!

[Shoot The Moon]

Yes, I check weigh my cast RB to spot the ones with voids - and like you I get a good few rejects. The worst ones go back in the pot, the ones that are not too bad are kept for short range plinking. (I am not shooting BP rifle, only C&B revolver so am often shooting around 10-15 yds)

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

I did weigh about 100 balls of the "0" Buckshot I use and found they did not
vary over about a 1/10 of a grain. Not worth my time to weigh them. When
I was using my own cast balls .451, they did not vary either. To me if
you cast them right, it's just a waste of time to weigh them.

[napp]

To me if
you cast them right, it's just a waste of time to weigh them.

That's a big if in my situation. I have just started casting. The balls I weighed were .490" and .495". I found weight discrepancies between like sized balls as much as 1.7 grains in some cases. There was absolutely nothing different about the outward appearance of the balls. Had I not weighed the balls, I would have felt fairly confident about my casting abilities. Now, not so much so. :uhoh:

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

I always use a ladle, never a bottom drop pot. I always held the ladle about
1/2 inch above the sprue hold in the mold and kept pouring until the ladle
was empty. I use a Lyman. Just let the lead keep running over the mold and
back into the pot. Never had a void in a ball either. Run the lead Hot! Keep
the mold Hot! I usually had to wait 15 or so seconds for the lead to get solid
in the sprue hole after pouring before I could hit the sprue cutter to cut it off.

[Mike OTDP]

That's how I mould, too, except that I pour the lead just to the side of the sprue hole, and let it run into the mould. It lets the air out more freely. And you definitely must keep everything hot.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

One time several years ago, me and another man locked one of my Walker's into a rest, fully loaded with BlackMag3 and .457 swaged round lead balls and checked it on a surplus Marine Corps Able Dog Target (bullseye on them are 6 feet across) set up at 100 yards. (Said type of target normally used on the 500 meter line when shooting for qualification). He weighed and sorted through several balls before he was satisfied. I was real interested in how he done everything but I didn't pay real close attention because I was more interested in a pot of coffee I was trying to make us on a small kerosene stove....

[junkman_01]

So what did you learn from this exercise (other than how to make coffee on a small kerosene stove)?

[W.E.G.]

Weighing results:
Hornady .530 round balls - theoretical max 223.5 grains
weighed 36, highest: 226.4 grains, passed 11, failed 25

Speer .535 round balls - theoretical max 229.9 grains
weighed 36, highest: 230.6 grains, passed 25, failed 11

Aren't both of these products SWAGED?

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

I just weighed 10 of the Hornady 0 Buck 32 cal. balls. Didn't vary over 1/10
of a grain. That's why I never weigh them for a match. Just a waste of time.

[napp]

Dutch Schoultz has posed an interesting question to me. What is the possibility that my dual cavity Lee mold is casting two balls of different weights owing to manufacturing tolerances? It should be easy enough to check out that possibility the next time I fire up the lead pot.

[Curator]

Store-bought (swaged) round balls are often out of round as well as having air pockets. One would think that machine swaging them would result in a superior product but this does not appear to be the case. My measurements are similar to Mykeal's. A former Hornady employee told me their core-cutters are calibrated to produce no "bleed-off" or waste when they swage round balls. This saves money but the balls are less than perfect, and usually a little undersize.

[WALKERs210]

In regards to weighting which scale is recommended. I have one that only weighs in grams or ounces, I have to use a conversation chart from grams to grains.

[junkman_01]

Get a proper scale.

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

When you press a out of round ball into a chamber it becomes round. In my
single shot pistols, I use balls that are .003-.005 bigger than the bore, if they
are a little out of round, they soon become round when I tap them into the bore. So don't matter. Accuracy test between out of round balls and those
that were perfect about 40 years ago with a Ranson Rest proved that the
Hornady or Speer sweaged balls were just as accurate. Also cast balls that
have wrinkles are just as accurate as perfect ones. There's more to worry about in shooting than the condition of your balls:D

[bushrod2]

I'd bet if you used a single cavity mold they would all be the same. I don't believe that air bubble crap. IMHO

[arcticap]

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=137954&stc=1&d=1299632083

[junkman_01]

Wow, that certainly is revealing! :what:

[Foto Joe]

Arcticap,

You were just waiting for somebody to say they didn't believe it weren't you?

Are those "Store Bought" or are they yours? (the lead ones)

If you cast them, what do you attribute the voids to?

What was the weight difference before you disected them?

[45-70 Ranger]

In cartridge rifle loads, weight is important. I will weigh EVERY round cast.
If I were shooting a real distance like say 100 yds plus with a ML rifle, sure, I'd weigh 'em.
For a C&B that I'm gonna bust off a few at cans and such, naw.....
If shooting for a competition, they'd get weighed.

The rounds I cast for say,,,,my 45-70, they are weighed and anything under .5 gr. is tossed back.:scrutiny: I'm picky with that one, but with RB just for fun? I got better things to do. .... Like shoot!:neener:

Wade

[arcticap]

Are those "Store Bought" or are they yours? (the lead ones)

They're not mine but their sprues indicate that they were all cast.
They were simply posted as examples of balls with casting voids.
Since how cast balls with sprues are loaded have been shown to not matter much to the casual shooter, I don't how much of an accuracy difference the air voids would cause.
I buy factory made balls and Hornady's are usually $2 or more cheaper per box around here than Speer.
Hornady balls may not be as perfectly round and uniform as Speer balls but the last time that I measured some they weren't undersized.

[Foto Joe]

Hornady is about all I can get my mitts on unless I order from Dash Caliber, so that's the majority of what I use.

I've got a digital scale coming on the Brown Truck on Friday, I'll weigh a few just for grins and see what kind of diffence I get. My beam scale only goes to 100gr so it's one of the reasons I ordered a Frankford Arsenal from Midway a few days ago.

[Bluehawk]

Interesting that the voids are pretty much in the same place for each ball.

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

I would say the mold that made them is not a "Lee" Probably Lyman or RCBS

[arcticap]

And the void is in line with the sprue.
Maybe it has to do with the angle of the pour and/or the angle of the mold when the lead is poured?
For whatever reason the last bubble of air gets trapped and can't escape.

[kwhi43@kc.rr.com]

You do know that Lyman molds have air vents cut in the mould. They are the
lines on the mold. Sometimes they get dirty. When I used Lyman, I would run
a razor blade down the vent lines to clean them.

[arcticap]

Bull Shop custom conicals offers a service to cut deeper grooves in Lee molds among other improvements.

We now offer mold maintainence - ** Lee-Menting **
For $10.00 a mold, we will vent the top seam for good base fill, debur all cavities so boolits drop freely, debur alignment pin holes and remove any burrs between blocks that may prevent the blocks from closing properly. We also open any questionalble vent lines to insure good fill.
This service includes a 2 oz bottle of our Famous Bullplate lube with each mold.
Return shipping is $7.50 which includes insurance.

We will also repair damage to used molds if possible.

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/tbs_services.htm

[david58]

So, if you are tossing balls based on a grain here and there, how do you measure your powder? Weight or volume?

My guess is that if you are dumping from a horn to a measure, you will vary a significant number of grains from shot to shot.

For patched round ball shooting, I never took the trouble to weigh the balls, and even dropped the diameter of the ball I shot to the point that I could press it into the muzzle by tapping it with the butt of my knife and then running it down with the ramrod (no short start). Fast, easy load. Plenty accurate for a trail walk.

As to paper punching, a bit tighter fit is maybe better. But if you are shooting offhand or off of sticks with a "regular" rifle (not a bench gun or a slug gun), is it REALLY going to make a difference if the ball has a void?

REALLY?

Again, I know folks that do it, but it just isn't my thing, either for my percussion long rifle or my firelock.

[Jaymo]

Articap, those aren't voids. Those are scientifically engineered expansion initiation cavities. ;)