More Guns From My Dad


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oldestdaughter
March 7, 2011, 09:25 AM
Hi again,
Now I am going to the rifle side of the house. You can see I have tormented the guys on the handgun side :) I only wish I had asked Dad about all of this. Last night a book appeared literally on the shelf after I got these guns...well not literally, first time I ever saw it. It was an old book on rifles, and I learned it was Dads. He must be trying to help me out. :) Last night I got the long guns, we literally had to draw for them to keep the peace. So here is what I got, any information is really appreciated as I know nothing of these guns.

Winchester Model 62A 22 Rifle S 257xxx
Winchester Model 61 22 Rifle 272xxx
Springfield 30 cal M1 2520xxx
RWS model 45 4.5/177 Cal Made in Germany 416xxx
Springfield Model 1898 271xxx
Springfield model 1903 Mark1 7.42 1070xxx
winchester model 94 30/30 2240xxx

I appreciate it.

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Double Vision
March 7, 2011, 09:41 AM
Very sorry to hear about your Dad.
Based on the list here, he had great taste in firearms.
Depending on the condition, they could be worth some money.
Personally, I would hold on to them as long as possible. That's quite a collection.

You'll get some good answers here on THR.
You might also try searching the internet for more info on each rifle.

Best wishes.

Al Thompson
March 7, 2011, 09:42 AM
What exactly would you like to know? :) That's a pretty nice collection there.

oldestdaughter
March 7, 2011, 11:22 AM
Yes, been reading a bit when time.
What would I like to know? Well, what makes each gun special to a collector, why does it stand out worthy of not being sold (by Dad) as he sold a ton before death. Mine are only 7 of 25 long guns left.

I like the stories.... value is not important in dollar figures.

Thanks
Jeannie

oldestdaughter
March 7, 2011, 11:23 AM
p.s. they are in awesome condition as were all the guns he bought, sold and kept or he did not go there...lol He was particular.

txhoghunter
March 7, 2011, 11:32 AM
Jeannie, I am by no means an expert on those firearms, but as for their value they are way up there. Both in price (depending on overall condition) and in sentiment seeing as they were your father's. It is obvious your dad knew what he was doing just by seeing that fraction of his collection.

I can't tell you why he would not sell these rifles in particular as opposed to others because I am sure he had his own reasons and stories behind each. However, I'm sure the great people here will give you a history on each of these models so you might be able to see what your dad saw as making them priceless.

I am sorry for your loss, and God Bless

oldestdaughter
March 7, 2011, 11:42 AM
Thank you, well, it has been so hard to lose Dad. I had no idea just what a collector her really was, but he was also a shooter and lover of his guns. I grew up with a pistol in my hand, which helped me land my first professional job. Well, he had so many more, now they are all split up. The only thing I can do is get an awesome safe, write their stories as I find them and with the help of my son who talked to grandpa alot. He appears to be a fan of the carbine (legal) as some have appeared out of no where in my house. Son told me...lol

Art Eatman
March 7, 2011, 01:05 PM
Even if it's a couple of years old and therefore cheaper, a copy of Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values is a very good reference. Among other things it offers advice on grading the condition of guns in order to select the proper pricing.

The 1903 Springfield Mark 1, with the slot for the ejection from the Pedersen device, if in high grade is worth somewhere north of $1,000.

High grade Winchester 61s and 62s are at least in the high hundreds of dollars, last I saw at a gunshow. At worst, a few hundred as shooters.

robhof
March 7, 2011, 01:26 PM
The Winchester 94 is most probably pre 1962, which greatly enhances the value and if in very good condition can fetch over $600 and will only go up in value with age. Sorry for your loss.

Float Pilot
March 7, 2011, 01:54 PM
Winchester Model 62A 22 Rifle S 257xxx
The rifle was originally designated a Model 62 and was phased out of production in 1939, as the 62A was being phased into production. The correct model number will normally appear with the barrel address. The major difference between the Model 62 and the Model 62A was going from a flat spring and small forearm, to a coil spring and larger forearm.
Yours is a post WWII serial number. Is it marked 22short, with 17 grooves on the fore-end?
They go from $450 to $1,000 depending on markings and condition.



Winchester Model 61 22 Rifle 272xxx
The Winchester Model 61 was the fourth in a series of Slide-Action rifles that Winchester produced. Unlike its predecessors, the Model 61 had no exposed hammer, an attempt by Winchester to compete with other rifles of the day (e.g., Remington). The Model 61 was the hammer-less replacement for 1890, 1906 and Model 62, especially when the former two models were dropped from production in 1932. The Winchester Model 61 was produced from 1932 through 1963 with over 342,000 guns sold.
Yours is a later post war model. They go from $500 to $950 depending on condition and special markings.


Springfield 30 cal M1 2520xxx
This is an M-1 Garand rifle. There were 6 million made between 1937 and 1954. To assess value I would have to see the stock cartouches, (markings) and the markings on the barrel chamber area which can be seen with the bolt pulled to the rear. Even beater M1 Garands go for more than $500 these days. Special marks and dates go for many times that.

RWS model 45 4.5/177 Cal Made in Germany 416xxx
These are a fairly powerful pellet rifle. Over 1,000 fps...I have one over the front door.
Used pellet rifles do not hold there value since the parts can be shot-out in these higher powered air-rifles. A used one goes for around $125 to a high of $200 for the laminated stock versions.

Springfield Model 1898 271xxx
This is a 30-40 Krag rifle. It should be marked .30 US or 30 US ARMY or 30 ARMY. There are all sorts of variations to look for on Krag Rifles. They go from $500 for beaters to $2,000 for some variations.
It is impossible to tell without good photos.

Springfield model 1903 Mark1 7.42 1070xxx
This is a WWI era 1903 rifle with the semi rare cut -out for the Pederson device. With 1903s a lot depends on the condition, if the stock is original, if the barrel is original and so on... Thye can go from $500 up to $2000 depending.. There is no way to tell without detailed photos.

winchester model 94 30/30 2240xxx
This Model 94 was made in 1960.So it counts as a pre-64 and is desirable to us collectors. depending on the condition and configuration they go for $500 to $800...

oldestdaughter
March 7, 2011, 02:41 PM
Wow, the last poster, you are from Alaska too. Dad was a cessna pilot and lived up there for 30 plus years. I sure to appreciate your information. I am going to print and save. Dad was retired Air Force too...so you are helping out an old military brat for sure. I regret deeply not asking Dad more, just walking back from lunch I see him all over the place and think what an idiot I was... not slowing down, getting his stories.

Life is full of regrets and at this point all I can do is try to insure that these guns go into the right hands and with their stories, down the line after me. It is the last thing I can do for Dad.

Well, as things would have it, I now have one of his favorite rifles, have no idea of the value and swapped one for it, from my sister as I know it was really special and he had it for yours, a Remington Model 600 308 with scope 203xx

His lifetime best friend just told me, Jeannie....get that gun...lol Just like trying to get the winchester 1894 octogan barrell, not so easy...lol but I did get the remington.

Thanks again,

lightman
March 7, 2011, 02:44 PM
Sorry for your loss,it sounds like he was quite a guy.Float Pilot gave you a very good rundown on your dads(your) rifles.One can only guess why he kept these and sold others.The normal reasons usually are exceptional condition,or sentimental attachment.Did he bring any of them home from being overseas or could he have inherited any of them?Maybe some were gifts from someone that he loved,like your mother.A list could turn up with some info,so be on the lookout for something.Things like this make me glad that I attached some info to my gun list.Good Luck, Lightman

oldestdaughter
March 7, 2011, 02:57 PM
no...no list, believe me, things keep popping up but he did not think or talk about dying. Loved life to much. Yes, you have done well to make a list with info. Well, my part is just 1/5th of the guns as they are five total girls.

He was addicted to guns...lol We may not have had alot but we sure had guns when I was growing up. I am thinking one may be a family gun, and being a military man he was into war weapons. He was in Vietnam for sure

oldestdaughter
March 10, 2011, 10:16 AM
Quick request.... gun safes, for the moderate budget, Please give me the best company, fire and burglary protection as I live in the country. House will burn and be broken in before anyone could arrive.

Toml
March 10, 2011, 10:34 AM
I have been happy with American Security's (Amsec) Cascade Gun Safe, Model 6030LGFHGA with a mechanical Group II combination lock. Recommend Down's Safe & Lock in Atlanta: Joe Pinson, 404-873-2515.

You may need a different configuration to hold more long guns.

Get one now. Best wishes.

snake284
March 10, 2011, 10:50 AM
Float Pilot, great info there. And as for what I know it all sounds right on the money.

Jeannie that is a fine collection there, even if they were all beaters they'd be worth a good bit. But reading what you say about your dad, I wouldn't think he would have a bunch of beaters. And I would almost wager you have a top notch collection there.

That 1903 Springfield is a high SN rifle and is safe to shoot, providing it's in good condition otherwise and the head space is within spec, so I would think it would bring top dollar, depending on condition of course. The early low numbers, up to about 800,000 I think were suspected to be brittle and could possibly fail causing injury or death to the shooter. But that SN indicates it is in the safe zone.

That 94 is another fine collector. They quit making them in 2007 when USRAC closed the plant. Also that being a pre-64, like Float Pilot said, is very desirable to collectors.

And that Garand, if in any kind of good condition is worth probably $600 up.

And those two 22s are a hoot too. They just don't make em like that anymore.

Oh yeah and that Krag is also getting rare, especially ones in excellent condition. While not the strongest of actions, they still command a pretty penny to collectors now days.

You can take the money and run, but depending on your age, I might think about investing in a good gun safe if I were you, bolting it to the floor, insure they are kept in a dehumidified environment and keep them about 20 more years. Then see what they're worth.

Also, keep em clean and lubed and you might put some furniture wax or polish on the stocks occasionally. Anything you can do to preserve their condition will do nothing but enhance the value in time.

oldestdaughter
March 10, 2011, 12:38 PM
Thank you all for the info. I plan to keep them of course, they are my Dad's legacy so to speak. They will go down the line and I plan to design my will in a way that it will be sure hard for anything else to happen. I am taking all the info you all give me, and am using it,... yep, sure am. I am young enough to be motivated but old enough to be smart :)

The gun safe thing is driving me crazy. Trying to find one that I can afford that can stand the test of time and so forth. However, researching is not easy as the options are so many. What is the average price for a decent, reliable safe? 2,000 or more? Then I can go from there. Also, thanks to the fella from Georgia. I will give him a call/but the shipping sounded off the charts.... :(

oldestdaughter
March 10, 2011, 12:50 PM
p.s. I will have photos soon...they are coming from Alaska.

ocharry
March 10, 2011, 01:17 PM
Jeannie,,get yourself a FORT KNOX fire and water and don't look back

yes they are expensive and yes you will only need to buy one,,well unless you out grow it,,so with that in mind buy with expansion in mind and you will be good to go

the reason i say this is VERY PLAIN,,,you can not replace the stuff you are going to put into this safe,,SO,,buy a good one one time and relax

also when you install it,, make sure you bolt it to the floor and wall,,,that way some bone head can't turn it over because he is,,well shall we say,, uhhh,,upset that he can't get into it

i have a few things that my dad gave to me and if something happened to them because i dropped the ball,, well,, would be hard to live with,, and my dad is still alive,, but he has cancer and we don't know how much longer he will be with us

k i will get off the box

just a suggestion

I am truly sorry for your loss

my .02

ocharry

oldestdaughter
March 10, 2011, 01:34 PM
Hi back at you,
Thank you for the advice. I have been looking at the Ft. Knox for exactly what you said, no regrets. I lost my Dad to cancer, and if I could do just one thing over, just one, it would be to slow down and listen to him tell me his stories, of his guns, his travels, his memories. I regret this deeply. Although I was a good daughter, I was a busy one. I was there until his last breath and even then I have the regrets. He surely loved his guns, nature and life in general. I say this to say, don't hesitate to stop, take time. I wish someone had smacked me hard and told me to take more time. Now look at me, I had the best advisor in the world, and am on a gun board learning what I should have years ago. How foolish I feel.

I will call the Ft. Knox folks today.

Thank you again,
Jeannie

frankenstein406
March 10, 2011, 01:49 PM
Might wanna put it in the basement in case of fire. Falling through the floor would suck.

BrocLuno
March 10, 2011, 01:55 PM
I have some guns from my dad. I understand your concerns. Any rated fire/water gun safe is better than being in the closet - period. A great safe is better - but what's the point if you dither and they are gone? Get one at Home Depot if you need to, but secure those weapons - now.

Once you have them put away, you can work on taking them out one at a time and cleaning and oiling them. As you do so, take pictures for insurance purposes and to share in doing your research. The thing you are looking for is linkage and context. Why did pop have this rifle? As you go through your dads books and notes, some of this will come out. As you meet or talk to other family members it will too.

Try to assemble a list of all the guns he had in the end? If we have a full list, we will have a much better sense of his "collection" and it may speak to the focus of his efforts.

The air rifle was likely a "rat" gun that he shot when he couldn't shoot a "real' firearm. And since we know he was a shooter, he was very likely not interested in any inaccurate rifles. The RWS is nothing if not accurate :)

The 22's were likely the same - they were vermin gitters and plinkers - they were/are fun to shoot. Very likely he kept them because they shot well, fit him physically and he liked the feel of the action. They are well made.

The Winchester 94 was very likely a hunting rifle for conditions that were closer in - say brush country and deer sized game. If you hear stories about hunting, think back to whether he might have been toting that 94 in that story? Some hunting is not conducive to the 94 and he likely used other long guns.

The Mil-Surp rifles may be a different story - they are likely to be a "value" collection of arms. He knew very well that scarcity and age drive up prices. He probably had more than one of each model pass through his hands and he kept the ones that shot the best and had the most unique marking or some known relationship to time and place. It's too bad that he's gone before you can ask him, but if my guess is right - you can assemble the same info for each one and come to the same conclusion he did?

They are like gold - they are not going down in value and they can be readily sold or traded for other needs. I suspect it was his "commodity" investment portfolio based on the facts that he knew about each one. I'll bet once all the info is in, each will be in the higher reaches of the market?

Condolences on you loss - loosing mom or dad is tough and we feel for you, but we'll be here to help if we can :)

terryknight
March 10, 2011, 09:10 PM
Sorry for your loss. It sounds like a great collection there. Float Pilot gave you lots of great info. I myself bought a safe to store my grandfather and great grandfather's guns. I bought mine used. Much cheaper that way. Make sure to check your guns out every once in awhile and wipe them down.

memphisjim
March 10, 2011, 09:18 PM
that garand sounds special

overcast_days
March 10, 2011, 09:49 PM
You've been given some good advice here. Your dad had a great collection.

Also in these parts a pre 64 Winchester model 94 30/30 in good condition sells for over a grand. Believe me I looked all over SE and SW NM from 1995- 2009 before giving up and buying one made in 69.

Float Pilot
March 11, 2011, 03:48 AM
Some of these sound familiar,,, I am starting to wonder if I knew him...???
I know, or have known, many if not most of my fellow Alaskan collectors and pilots over the past half century or so...

I need to sit down and write out just who gets what when I ride-on up the trail.

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