.22's


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sprice
March 7, 2011, 06:57 PM
What's the most accurate .22lr semi-automatic rifle that can be had for under $500? I'm leaning to ar-15 types but maybe a customized ruger 10/22?

Will a savage mkII compete with a cz 452?

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BrocLuno
March 7, 2011, 06:59 PM
Really accurate will turn out to be a match rifle and that is 99.99% a bolt gun. How do you define accurate?

sprice
March 7, 2011, 07:24 PM
I revised it a little. What's the most accurate instead of a really accurate semi?

mshootnit
March 7, 2011, 07:29 PM
bsa martini

wanderinwalker
March 7, 2011, 07:49 PM
The Thompson Center R-55 (http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/youth_r-55_rifles.php) has a reputation for good accuracy from a semi-auto, and I believe the sporters are around the $500 price-point.

If you're willing to give up the semi-auto for accuracy and reliability, check out the Savage Mk IIs (http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/) or CZ-455s. I might recommend the Savage Mk II FVT with peep sights for learning shooting fundamentals. Be warned, the synthetic stocks aren't very stiff and a little sling tension will twist them pretty easily.

arizona98tj
March 7, 2011, 07:55 PM
Accuracy....don't get the Smith & Wesson's M&P15-22. While S&W claims they come with a match grade barrel, they are far from it.

If you want a AR type semi-auto .22LR that has the same manual of arms as a regular AR-15, then get the 15-22. Just don't get it because you think it will be accurate.

Sky
March 7, 2011, 08:01 PM
Or get an AR and the chrome 22lr conversion kit and you will have many options. Varmints out to 50 yards or longer depending on the barrel with the 22 and much much further with the 223.

GLShooter
March 7, 2011, 08:35 PM
For $500 get a used 10-22 ($150) a Volquartsen hammer/sear set up ($80) a Green Mountain fluted 18" barrel ($125) and a Bell & Carlson stock ($130)

This is my 10-22 with a Shilen barrel but the GM's will shoot great too.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/GLShooter/10-22%20RIFLES/10-22FWFRaceGun.jpg

Greg

Furncliff
March 7, 2011, 10:14 PM
I shoot the cz 452's daddy, a Brno#1. It's good for 3/8inch groups at 50 yards with target ammo.

The sad thing is that my much cheaper (like $160) 1990's vintage stock (except for Boyds Thumbhole) Marlin 60 with a cheap scope can almost get there. It will do about 1/2 inch on a good day.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/892/dsc01321i.jpg

Gordon_Freeman
March 8, 2011, 01:00 AM
I recommend the Colt/Umarex M4 OPS carbine or the Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22.

trigga
March 8, 2011, 01:53 AM
what do you plan on doing with it? ever consider getting a used ar15 then a .22lr conversion kit? might be a little more but gives you more versatility. I use the .22lr for squirrel hunting and it has proven more than accurate, and .223 for deer. the spikes tactical kit i have is highly reliable with cci mini mags and stingers. if you want a nice dedicated .22lr rifle ar15 style, my vote is for the smith mp22. light weight and nice barrel unlike the colt replica .22lr. the colt just looks better, thats about it.

doc2rn
March 8, 2011, 02:45 AM
If you just want an accurate semi out of the box its gonna be a Marlin mod 60. If you want an accurate tack driver get the CZ 452 or the Ruger 77/22 MK II V-Bolt, not the screw in barrel.

DNS
March 8, 2011, 03:01 AM
I agree with Doc on the Marlin 60.

After adding a scope and bipod my targets are now post-it notes.

The very small ones :)

mrbro
March 8, 2011, 08:45 AM
Another vote for the Marlin 60. My '71 vintage 60 with a 4x scope does about 1.1 moa with Wolf MT out to 130 yards. We did a big ammo test recently where I spent more on ammo than I did for the gun and scope 25 years ago.

shotgunslinger
March 8, 2011, 09:46 AM
I like the 10/22 thats what I have. The good thing about 22's is that you dont have to buy real expensive optics. To tell you the truth I have a ncstar on my 10/22 right now.

DM~
March 8, 2011, 01:53 PM
Out of the box, the Marlin 60 is the best buy out there, and they do shoot VERY good. If you want to customize your 22 and make it shoot, get a 10/22. I just don't like they way they feel like a beached whale in my hand, and you can't fix that.

DM

Onward Allusion
March 8, 2011, 02:59 PM
doc2rn (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=33362)
If you just want an accurate semi out of the box its gonna be a Marlin mod 60. If you want an accurate tack driver get the CZ 452 or the Ruger 77/22 MK II V-Bolt, not the screw in barrel.

+1 on the Marlin 60 out of the box...

CraigC
March 9, 2011, 01:31 AM
This thread is wandering all over the place. Firstly, we need to know 'how' accurate. Saying the "most" accurate doesn't really tell us much and recommending a T/C because it's the most accurate out of the box doesn't do much good if you'd be satisfied with a Marlin 60.

Out of the box, the T/C is probably the most accurate but it will eat up all of your $500.

However, you could build a really accurate 10/22 with $500. A used carbine can be had for $150 or a brand new one for $200. Spend a little more and get a walnut sporter for $275. Couple that with a $200 barrel and a $40 Volquartsen hammer and you have a 10/22 that will shoot with most boltguns. Contrary to popular belief, rimfires are not like centerfires so you don't need a steel heavy barrel to shoot tiny groups. Sporter and midweight barrels are just as accurate and don't feel like a boat anchor in your hands. I would strongly suggest going this route if you plan on hunting with it. Look for sporter barrels by Green Mountain ($100-$150) and midweight barrels by Clark Custom and Shilen (+$200). The midweight barrels will require opening the barrel channel on a factory stock but this is easily accomplished.

For boltguns, folks generally consider the CZ's to be more accurate than Savages but they also cost more. Which is okay because they're nicer rifles and many come with turkish walnut. My Savage MKII and CZ 452 shoot about the same but the Savage is a heavy barrelled target model tested with a 24x target scope and the CZ is a full-stocked model tested with a 1-4x scope that is set parallax free at 100yds.

petrey10
March 9, 2011, 02:25 PM
there are so many things you can do to a 10/22 for 500 bucks... go with that!!

451 Detonics
March 9, 2011, 02:50 PM
I have less than $500 in this 10/22 build. Fajen stock, Volquartzen barrel, Simmons scope, did the trigger myself modding the original Ruger parts.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/fajen1022.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/1022targetcopy.jpg

d2wing
March 9, 2011, 08:50 PM
I have 2 CZ452's, a heavy barrel Ruger and they all shoot great. But I am thinking of trying a Marlin 60. Are they really better than a Ruger? How about the Mossberg Plinker?
Are they any good?

frankenstein406
March 9, 2011, 08:57 PM
Old mossbergs, marlin 795, lot of options, but what will be comfortable in your hands? Just because your gun can, doesn't mean you can. Take some classes in shooting.

jad0110
March 9, 2011, 09:04 PM
Out of the box, the Marlin 60 is the best buy out there, and they do shoot VERY good. If you want to customize your 22 and make it shoot, get a 10/22.

That sums it up nicely. I've got a Glenfield/Marlin Model 60 made in the early 80s that shoots better than I can manage. Best part is I only paid $65 for it at a pawn shop a few years ago. They are great little rifles for the money.

76shuvlinoff
March 9, 2011, 09:08 PM
I like Marlins, for levers I have a 39A .22 and a 1894C in .357

However I think the best money I ever spent was $90 for a lightly used Marlin 60 3 years ago. Add inexpensive (not cracker jack cheap) glass and it will probably bore you.... but you will be grinning.

pelzer24
March 9, 2011, 09:13 PM
Don't count out the Remington 597. They're better than a 10-22 out of the box as well.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

801sureshot
March 9, 2011, 09:47 PM
I currently own both a 10/22 and a Marlin 60. The 60 is by far the more accurate of the two. ATI makes a nice stock for the Marlin that will give ya a more modern feel if thats what yer after. Mine lives under the back seat and regularly slays whistle pigs and assorted vermin.

CraigC
March 9, 2011, 10:07 PM
Somehow I get the feeling that if you're wanting a $500 rifle, a $100 Marlin ain't gonna cut it.


There are some that will say that even a modified Ruger has a hard time matching what a Marlin will do.
Mostly wishful thinking by Marlin shooters who have no idea how accurately a Ruger with a good barrel will shoot.

Onmilo
March 9, 2011, 10:58 PM
While I am not a fanboy and don't own one now, I agree that for $500 you can build a 10/22 into a VERY accurate semi auto shooting rifle.

Usagi
March 9, 2011, 11:43 PM
If you already have a 10/22, and wish to spend $500, you might just be able to put together a rifle that can out-shoot a Marlin 60.


For semi-autos, in the price range given, the Marlin 60 gets my vote.

Holo
March 10, 2011, 12:58 AM
if you want to keep it stock, go with marlin. If you want to tinker with it, go with a 10/22. The aftermarket availability of the 10/22 is endless. The marlin isn't so hot in comparison.

CraigC
March 10, 2011, 01:34 AM
...you might just be able to put together a rifle that can out-shoot a Marlin 60.
I'd love to see proof that any Marlin auto will outshoot a 10/22, with any grade of ammo, with an aftermarket barrel that costs twice what the complete Marlin rifle did. It ain't gonna happen. No matter how much some folks wanna believe it. There is a reason why a premium 10/22 barrel costs $200 and a Marlin costs half that. There's nothing magic about Marlin's barrels. I'm actually very positive on them in general and their .22 autos in particular. My first rifle was a model 60 that I got for Christmas at an early age. They're very good guns for the money but they are of lesser quality than a 10/22 even though they do tend to shoot a little more accurately out of the box.

Novax
March 10, 2011, 07:42 AM
Don't count out the Remington 597. They're better than a 10-22 out of the box as well.

I was wondering when or if someone was gonna mention this one ;-)

pelzer24
March 10, 2011, 08:43 AM
I picked up my 597 for $140 and it out shoots my dads 10-22 by quite a bit. Its cheaper than the 10-22 new. The money you save can go towards ammo. And while it doesn't have nearly as much aftermarket support of the 10-22, it does have most everything you could want. Be it barrels, stocks, trigger components, you name it. Awesome rifle.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

wanderinwalker
March 10, 2011, 05:02 PM
Somehow I get the feeling that if you're wanting a $500 rifle, a $100 Marlin ain't gonna cut it.



Mostly wishful thinking by Marlin shooters who have no idea how accurately a Ruger with a good barrel will shoot.
Exactly my thoughts! A $200 Marlin or $220 10/22 (local prices), while good quality, isn't a $500 TC. A 10/22 Target might be on the right track out-of-the-box and could be one for the OP to consider.

If the OP hadn't said he wanted a semi-auto with a $500 limit, but just wanted an accurate .22, I would have gone straight to suggesting something with the name "Anschutz" on the side. But that isn't an option...

Marlin 45 carbine
March 10, 2011, 06:01 PM
I'll ditto Jeff56. I've had 3 10/22's and while they are fine .22's I'll have to give the nod to a Marlin 60 I got in trade for some welding (actualy burning off off a house trailer tongue) I did years back. it had been carryed much, shot little and cleaned none. my current .22LR's were a Winny 74 and an AMT heavy bbl 'small game hunter' (dern good shooting .22lr). so I sold the Marlin to a nephew who is a 'detail freak' and he took it down, cleaned spotless reassembled and tightened all up tight. I polished the trigger parts on my buffing wheel, polished the muzzle crown and back together for him. he added a 4X Burris and sighted it in on a rest. now practices on walnuts at 50 yds standing offhand and very rarely a miss. any man-sized target at 100yds is in deep kim-shueey with the MiniMags he shoots.
I can hold my own with my AMT (3x9 glass) but I have to have a good day to do so. of course 60 yr old eyes account for some of this against 23 yr old.
he had mentioned he was contemplating a SHTF gun and I says 'ain't you already got one?' he bought an S&W 915 as concealable weapon. good choice IMO

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
March 10, 2011, 07:28 PM
my Marlin 60 i got a few years back from a friend, it does .25inch groups at 50 yards with cci mini-mags. that was with just a cheap wal-mart tasco 3-9X40 scope and rings. so with the rifle, scope, and rings im into the rifle for under $150.

CraigC
March 10, 2011, 07:57 PM
my Marlin 60 i got a few years back from a friend does .25inch groups at 50 yards with cci mini-mags. that was with just a cheap wal-mart tasco 3-9X40 scope and rings. so with the rifle, scope, and rings im into the rifle for under $150.
Post pics. No once in a lifetime flukes. Let's see five consectuve five-shot groups. It's the only way anybody will believe that a $100 tube-fed rifle that cannot be free-floated, with an el cheapo scope that is set parallax free at 100-150yds, shoots half MOA.

cyber-top
March 10, 2011, 08:16 PM
I would go with the Savage Mark II, I got one at Dick's Sports with the thumbhole stock for $319.00. It will shoot one ragged hole at 50 yards off a bench and sand bag. It did not feed very well at first and the included mags are junk. I had to polish the bolt, replace the factory magazine, and trim the magazine frame on the rifle to let the magazine release put more pressure on the new 10 round mag. After an hour of tinkering the rifle is unbelievable. I put a Leupold VX-II 3x9 on it and the squires won't come within 150 yard of the house.

cyber-top
March 10, 2011, 08:39 PM
I picked up my 597 for $140 and it out shoots my dads 10-22 by quite a bit. Its cheaper than the 10-22 new. The money you save can go towards ammo. And while it doesn't have nearly as much aftermarket support of the 10-22, it does have most everything you could want. Be it barrels, stocks, trigger components, you name it. Awesome rifle.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Totally agree. I picked one up 10+ years ago and have put at least 10,000 round through it. When I got mine all they had were the junk plastic mags and I actually put it in the closet for a few years until they came out the cast aluminum ones. The new ones brought new life to and old friend. A few years ago I got the Volquartsen Target Hammer and Extractor. Now it shoots almost as good as my Savage Mark II with the Accu-Trigger.

carbine85
March 10, 2011, 09:24 PM
If you just want an accurate semi out of the box its gonna be a Marlin mod 60. If you want an accurate tack driver get the CZ 452 or the Ruger 77/22 MK II V-Bolt, not the screw in barrel.



+1. I have $110.00 into the Model 60 and a $20.00 scope. This thing shoot nats ass and I don't have to worry about it.

mr.trooper
March 11, 2011, 01:02 AM
What's the most accurate .22lr semi-automatic rifle that can be had for under $500? I'm leaning to ar-15 types but maybe a customized ruger 10/22?

Will a savage mkII compete with a cz 452?

Yes.

gdcpony
March 11, 2011, 12:51 PM
If you can find the target model Browning Buckmark, I would jump on it. I loved it for both speed and accuracy. I don't know what they go for now, but I got mine for <$500. It shot 3/8@ 75yds (my range for benching .22's) for me so definitely a plenty accurate little rifle.

It is a much faster gun to use than a 10/22, and I think just as accurate as any target model too.

22-rimfire
March 11, 2011, 07:57 PM
Yeah, a tricked out Ruger 10/22 will out shoot a standard factory Marlin 60 out of the box. Is there any doubt? Frankly, I don't think this is saying a whole lot about a Ruger 10/22 as the customized rifle isn't really a 10/22 any more. Yeah, the receiver still is, so technically it is still a 10/22.

My vote for an accurate out of the box middle grade 22 rifle is the Thompson Center R-55. However, TC has discontinued them this year. Happens with most of the great 22 rifles even though TC had problems with it. I suspect this is the reason they were discontinued. To many returns.... first it was jamming issues (pre R-55 models), then it was chipped chambers...

If you want a 22 tack driver that is close to out of the box, I suggest the CZ 452/453/455 or Savage Mark II's (bolt actions). Savage discontinued the classic version this year with the walnut stock. Shame.... But I have been informed that Cabala's purchased all of the remaining stock of the Classic models. Check there if you want one.

My understanding is that none of the AR styled 22 rifles are highly accurate, but most buy them as fun guns. What's accurate? 0.5" groups at 50 yds.... Sometimes you're lucky to get 1" groups with a stock Ruger 10/22 with medium good ammo.

For the price, the Marlin M60 is the best bang for the buck unless you want to customize it.

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
March 11, 2011, 08:28 PM
craig, i don't take pictures of every group i shoot but here is some from the last time i was at the range.

this one was .28 but you get the idea
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/TheScooby/Guns/185-8599_IMG.jpg

GLShooter
March 11, 2011, 08:33 PM
That is super. It also shows you are darn good behind that trigger. Kudos!!

Greg

QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW
March 11, 2011, 08:41 PM
thanks, but its all the gun, it makes me look like a sniper when i really only get to the range a few times a year

GLShooter
March 11, 2011, 08:47 PM
I've taught beginning snipers. The rifle is 60% the rest is all on you!!

Greg

sladenotdead
March 11, 2011, 08:57 PM
It's funny all of the differing opinions on what is 'best'. It's such a subjective term, its hard to take anyone seriously when they say so matter of factly such and such gun is the best. I have a 10/22, and I won't say it's the best but I will say I love it and can get sub 1'' groups at 50 yards with most ammo. I would wager that most of the people who responded on here saying that their gun of choice is the best only have that gun, and haven't really done comparisons other than reading. That's just my .02, get whatever works for your budget, whichever the choice I'm sure you'll love it as long as you take care of it and take the time to practice with it and get good.

CowboyTim
March 11, 2011, 09:06 PM
I own both a 10/22 and a cz 452. The 10/22 isn't even close to the cz. Grew up shooting a Marlin model 80 with a Lyman peep made somewhere between '36-'38, that IS in the same class as the cz, extremely accurate rifle. Don't know much about the new Marlins though.

chrome_austex
March 11, 2011, 11:24 PM
Yeah, its not like we're chatting up guns on a sports car forum here :)

I just picked up a CZ 452 FS in 22lr. Its cost as much as the .308 Remington 700 I just sold, but it will be nice to have a gun I don't have to reload for anymore.

I just hope its at least as accurate as the Walther G22 bullpup 22 semi-auto I had. That one nearly got me an appleseed rifleman patch my first solid day shooting in 10 years. Granted, I was a competition smallbore shooter before that... (appleseeds are good practice!). That gun would shoot waaayyy left when the bore was cold, but shot pretty well once it was warmed up (with it's pet favorite ammo, Remington Target). I might not recommend that one for a hunting gun if the 1st cold shot thing is common for the breed.

The factory test group that came in the box isn't very impressive, probably 2moa or 1" at 50m. The salesman at the gun store told me that factory test groups don't mean anything... I can believe him, right? ;P

Usagi
March 12, 2011, 12:22 AM
For the comments about whether posters here actually own more than one .22, here's my story:

I own a Marlin 795.
Used to have a 60 - until my wife shot it. ;)
Also have a Ruger 10/22 - serial number says it was made in 1987.
My son has a Crickett bolt action.

I've done the following work on them:
Marlin 60 - trigger job (about 3.5 pounds now)
Marlin 795 - trigger job (about 4.5-5 lbs now)
10/22 - VQ hammer, extractor, and auto bolt-release. (now it is almost as reliable as the Marlins on extractions)

At 25 yards, shooting the rifles from a supported position, I can consistently shoot:
0.5 MOA with the Marlin 60 and the 795 (remember, at 25 yards, 1 MOA = 0.25") with bulk ammo. I have shot .25" groups with CCI ammo.
3 MOA with the 10/22, using CCI mini mags. 4 MOA with Federal bulk & Winchester bulk.
1.5 MOA with the Crickett with either bulk or CCI.
Add 0.5 MOA to 1 MOA when I shoot prone with a sling at the same distance.

At 100 yards, the groups open up, as expected:
The 60 and 795 will shoot 2 MOA with CCI and 2.5 MOA with bulk.
The 10/22 will open up to 8 inch (8 MOA) groups with bulk, and 6 MOA with CCI.
FWIW - I have shot, from a rest with a scope, a 1.5 MOA group at 100 yards with the 60, using CCI SV.

Based on these results, and seeing the same for years, I refuse to feed the 10/22 better ammo. It's like feeding caviar to the swine.

I've shot some 10/22's that belong to friends that have nice barrels on them (one has a GM barrel, and the other is a VQ, I think). They get close to the same performance - often within a half MOA.

Some of the $200+ barrels will get the 10/22 to the same performance level - and I've shot a few. Problem is, these barrels are most often VERY picky about ammo.

So, put it this way:
- $250 for a 10/22
- $40 for a new hammer, springs, and extractor
- $80 for a new stock
- $250 for a good barrel
Total - $620 - Now you have a gun that will shoot the same, or perhaps marginally better than a stock 60 with a 10-minute trigger job. Oh, but it must have high grade ammo (usually CCI at the very least).

Or, pay $130 for a gun that will do the same (or so darn close that 75% of the shooters on here won't be able to tell the difference), and do it with the "el-cheapo" ammo.


Now, I like to tinker, and the 10/22 has the Marlins beat, hands down, in the optional accessories. :o


Sometimes, it seems like to me that the 10/22 fanboys often like to bash the Marlin based on price point. Never on actual experience. It also seems they often need to somehow justify the fact that the Ruger requires more of an investment ($$$) to equal or beat the lowly Marlin.

That's OK - I'll keep shooting my "el cheapo" and keep getting fabulous results, and that's good for me. Difference is, I won't put down another man (or men... or women) for how he spends his money. That's his choice.

DM~
March 12, 2011, 08:55 AM
I base my answers on "personal experience", i probably have (25) 22's right now, includeing a 10/22, Marlin 60, Browning auto, Browning T-bolt, Rem. 552, bolt action Anschutz, numerous 500 series Remingtons like the 541-S, also Savage bolt action and many others... SO, i have no reason to BS anyone here!

DM

GLShooter
March 12, 2011, 12:36 PM
The factory test group that came in the box isn't very impressive, probably 2moa or 1" at 50m. The salesman at the gun store told me that factory test groups don't mean anything... I can believe him, right? ;P

I can tel you that I have a pair of CZ 527 Varmints in 204. The test targets were so disturbing I about wet myself. 50 meters with shots around 1 1/4" out of a varmint rifle?? OMG!!

Neither shot factory WW 204 34 grain loads well at 1 1/4" at 100 yards but the first one had 19 handloads through it for load work up. All but one was less than 1". 16 were under 3/4 inch and 15 of those were 1/2" or less down to 0.35. Five different powders using 32 and 39 grain DANZAC coated Sierras.

Those test targets just tell me the bore didn't have cob webs when it left the test tunnel.

Greg

HOOfan_1
March 12, 2011, 07:27 PM
Yeah, its not like we're chatting up guns on a sports car forum here :)

I just picked up a CZ 452 FS in 22lr. Its cost as much as the .308 Remington 700 I just sold, but it will be nice to have a gun I don't have to reload for anymore.


The factory test group that came in the box isn't very impressive, probably 2moa or 1" at 50m.

The FS has open sights and doesn't come with rings...so I think it is safe to say that that group was shot without optics. Kind of hard to shoot a tight group at 50M (55 yards) with open sights.

I bought my dad an 452 Ultra Lux, same story as your FS, the factory target wasn't that great. We scoped it and this is the result.

4 3 shot groups at 50 yards. Worst group is .75" Best group is below .25" Other two groups are under .5"

chrome_austex
March 12, 2011, 10:32 PM
I always figured they shot test groups in a vise of some kind.

Mine got some exercise today (now scoped with a diminutive low mounted leupold 2.5-6.6x25). Steady 12mph wind and my groups were a little inconsistent with some tight groups and some wild flyers, but then I don't use a benchrest, just a front bag, so that could easily be a number of things. So its a trick little 22, but its not going to win any benchrest competitions.

What I need now is like a 5" anschutz rail to install just behind the front swivel stud....

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