Flashlights as impact weapons...which one?


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10-Ring
January 25, 2003, 02:38 PM
I've got a 4 cell Maglight near me at home, but I'd like to upgrade it...sure, I could go w/ a 5 cell, but at what point does the law of diminishing returns kicks in and I don't get any more benefit from buying BIGGER?
Any recommendations?

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HAWK-HKG11
January 25, 2003, 04:32 PM
I don't think MagLites are heavy enough or have enough leverage to be impact weapons (the 5 and 6 cell ones aren't that much brighter either). Unless you have nothing else, I suppose you could use it, but I don't see much logic in buying a new one just to use as an impact weapon. You might as well spend $30 more and get a 21" ASP.

CAP
January 25, 2003, 10:15 PM
A 5 or 6 C-cell Mag would work good. I've got several. Lighter than D-cells.

It would be a last resort but there is one in each vehicle and by the bed.

I've recently gone to the Streamlight Scorpion for actual flashlight duty. Way cheaper than 2 3-volt Surefires and VERY bright. I need to get 2 or 3 more for the vehicles too.

10-Ring
January 26, 2003, 05:17 PM
Aren't there diff't versions of the Scorpion? Which one did you get, battery or rechargeable version?

Guyon
January 26, 2003, 05:20 PM
Ok, what exactly do you mean by "impact weapon"? If it means basically "blunt force trauma," then I think that the regular metal MagLite could deliver one heckuva blow.

mdwest
January 26, 2003, 08:35 PM
Mag Lights and the old Kel-Lights have been used as impact weapons by LEO's for years.. they are highly effective... much more so than an ASP....

an ASP has certain advantages for LEO's.. the primary is availability.. it is always with you.. PR-24's and Straight Sticks tend to get left in the car alot because they get in the way, and difficult to manuever with, and are a general pain in the hind part when it comes to taking it off, putting it on, taking it off, and putting it on again, over and over... then when you really need it, its in the car..

a pr-24 or straight stick however typically deliver MUCH more blunt force trauma than a collapsible.. this is the primary reason you have seen an upstart of "conventional" weight and length collapsibles such as the winchester baton and the wide diameter monadnocks (a compromise between capability and comfort/size)

a C or D cell flashlight comes much closer to replicating the blow delivered by a conventional baton than a collapsible does... the additional weight allows for deeper penetration and greater "fluid shock wave" transfer when delivering strikes as taught in the PPCT, ASP, or Monadnock systems...

personally, i have never had a problem dropping someone with my 21" ASP upon first strike, but that isnt always the case for other officers.. i have bent 2 collapsibles however to the extent that they were non repairable...

a 5 C cell mag light is my personal favorite for an "improvised" impact weapon...

CAP
January 26, 2003, 10:04 PM
I got the Scorp that takes standard 3 volt batteries, not rechargables.
Still looking at other Streamlight models.

10-Ring
January 27, 2003, 01:40 AM
Does scorpion have a website? I've noticed that SF measured its lights in lumens whereas others measure in candle power...I'd really like to compare apples to apples, is there an EASY conversion?

HAWK-HKG11
January 27, 2003, 10:37 AM
Scorpions take two CR123 3 volt lithium batteries and are not rechargeable. You have to look at the other Streamlight models (www.streamlight.com) such as the Stinger if you want a rechargeable. As for the lumens vs. CP, they are two completely different measurements that cannot be converted. Lumens measures the total light output of a source, whereas candle power is simply the intensity of the light at the brightest part (hot spot) measured from a certain distance.

Ron L
January 27, 2003, 04:48 PM
Consider that a Maglight may not be as accessible in the daytime, when you're not specifically thinking "flashlight". ASP's also don't have bulbs that can break, leaving you in the dark. You can also carry a smaller ASP much easier than a 4 cell light, for example.

However, that being said, the Luxeon conversion for your Maglite replaces the regular bulb and won't break like a regular bulb; 1 dog and a couple drops (1 rather hard) haven't broken the thing yet. As for the Mags, I prefer the 3-5 cell C size with the 4-5 being preferable. They're a bit lighter, carry better in the hand, and you won't sacrifice any light with these as opposed to the D cells.

Kahr carrier
January 29, 2003, 09:04 AM
Ill stick with the 6 cell Maglite in my area Asps are restricted to Leo.:banghead: :neener:

jame
February 3, 2003, 01:15 AM
I'm going to go to the other side of "big and heavy".

How about the Streamlight Batonlite? It's an LED kubaton about the size of a Mini-Maglight, and it's TOUGH! I bought mine with batteries about 3 months ago, carry it daily, and it serves me well. No battery changes yet.

laynlow
February 3, 2003, 01:30 AM
Check out the Tigerlight. It is just as solid as a Maglite, has more light output than many of the Streamlight's or Surefires (including my Z2 and 8NX) and it also holds a 2oz. canister of OC spray in the end of the light. Spray em' first and hit em' if you have to.

www.tigerlight.net

ruger357
February 4, 2003, 07:55 AM
Maglight 4-cell D.

Azrael256
February 6, 2003, 04:47 AM
10-ring, there really isn't an easy way to convert candlepower to lumens. The problem is that candlepower is how much light the bulb produces, and lumens is how much light gets to what you're lighting. Generally you can use 12.6 (12.57) lumens = 1 candlepower, but you will run into situations (experimentally) where that doesn't hold up. You're making the assumption that there is nothing stopping the light. Your million candlepower spotlight will not necessarily give 12,570,000 lumens since you don't generally use it in a vacuum.

The fact is, however, that the lights are probably tested under relatively controlled conditions, so you can use that conversion without worry.

Pat Bateman
February 6, 2003, 05:00 AM
A little under a year ago, I was hit in the head multiple times with a 4D Mag-Lite. Had about 30 staples, got a pretty nasty looking X-shaped scar, about 3 and a half inches in diameter. But, it didn't put me down.

10-Ring
February 6, 2003, 04:37 PM
As far as the damage that can be done, I've seen forearms that left perfect impressions of the Streamlight that hit them. :what: I know they'll do the job if you can build up enough energy behind one :)

OF
February 6, 2003, 05:02 PM
Hows about a SureFire with GG&G's TID? Gets my vote for most super nasty flashlight accessory:

http://www.gggaz.com/products/tid.php
http://www.gggaz.com/images/tid.jpg

- Gabe

Smoke
February 6, 2003, 06:04 PM
Mag lites and similar are very effective weapons if used correctly.

I beleive Pat Bateman can attest to the incorrect usage better than I. Then head is not a good target. I prefer the C & D cell lights over ASP style batons because they transfer energy better. When targeting large joints, bones, and nerve centers its all about the transfer of energy, heavier solid aluminum flashlights will natuarlly do that better than flexible batons.

WIth that said: The new line of Winchester expandable batons are really something to see. These things have tremendous potential. If you get a chance to handle one you will instantly see the advantage over traditional ASP batons.

Thats my $0.02

Shag
February 7, 2003, 02:01 AM
Possibly the best of both worlds?? :cool:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2910174792&category=3204


Shaun

Mannlicher
February 7, 2003, 09:19 PM
You could always ask Rodney King. If memory serves,he has a working knowledge of Maglights.

10-Ring
February 7, 2003, 10:46 PM
THe LAPD primarily uses Streamlight ;) Rodney knows Streamlights! :D

SteelyDan
February 8, 2003, 12:43 AM
Azrael256, I'm probably wrong here, and I'll gladly accept the correction, but isn't the candlepower/lumens thing the other way around?? I was operating under the impression that lumens was the total light given off by the bulb or lamp, in all directions, while candlepower measured the peak intensity of the light in a particular direction (i.e., the very brightest part of the area illuminated by a flashlight beam).

10-Ring
February 8, 2003, 01:51 AM
Why can't there be a uniform unit of measure so I don't have to purchase every friggin' light out there until I find one w/ the focus I'm looking for and the right brightness?

swampgator
February 8, 2003, 06:16 PM
Why can't there be a uniform unit of measure so I don't have to purchase every friggin' light out there until I find one w/ the focus I'm looking for and the right brightness?

Because Sure-Fire can use lumens to say they're the brighest and Streamlight can use candlepower to say that they're the brightest. Both using a different measure are then correct.

It's all about the marketing!

Oh yeah, a 4 D cell Maglite will work fine.

Spark
February 9, 2003, 02:07 PM
Candlepower is not a scientific, reproduceable measurement. Lumens is. Don't trust candlepower.

Kevin

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