Czusa Rami Update.........


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PCRCCW
January 6, 2004, 03:57 PM
Well....I just got the final word on the RAMI from CZUSA. The guns been kinda brow beat because of its lack of a slide lock/release.

The guns in the USA for sale will come with BOTH the pin shown in the pics and a Standard style 75B slide lock/release. The frame will be machined for both to work..............so calm your fears, chill and have a smoke or whatever you do.

Also Ive been told the frames may have slight differences than the ones shown on the website. More 75B'ish as to the CZ40ish style you have seen so much of...................

According to what I was told "Well know what the look like when we get the first 1000 in and go through them!" :D :rolleyes:

And just to give you guys a real life idea of their size......they will be 3/4" shorter in the muzzle than the PCR/PO1/Compact 75 are currently. Pretty damn short.......

Shoot well and enjoy..........http://www.imageseek.com/hbeleather/gallery/albums/custom/RAMI_low_res.sized.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "Czusa Rami Update........." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
JimJD
January 6, 2004, 05:15 PM
Wow, two systems for the slide.
Hope it does'nt increase the chances of a failure.
Seems like a belt and suspenders approach. But I still like it!
When's the release date stateside again?

George Hill
January 6, 2004, 05:38 PM
I like this a lot more.
I've seen one on GunBroker:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=14862303

Sox
January 6, 2004, 07:01 PM
So, I am confused? Is the one pictured 40 ish or 75ish ? Thanks.

PCRCCW
January 6, 2004, 08:03 PM
Sox..good question. Honestly I dont know. I was just told they are changing the frame in ways that will make it more 75 like than 40ish.
I cant say if thats the final version of not...............
Goerge,
Thats Phils online store. Be careful what you order from him. Hes listed guns for sale that dont exist yet. The CZ Comp Carry, or 40 Compact was the first.....he lists stuff out of catalogs and doesnt verify they are in stock anywhere first. Its the CZConnection.


Shoot well.

Kharn
January 6, 2004, 08:11 PM
http://www.czub.cz/products/firearms/CZ_2075_RAMI/CZ_2075_RAMI.jpg
The other pin design.

Kharn

George Hill
January 6, 2004, 08:41 PM
Oh no worries... I've heard of him before.
Just read his auction and it's sketchy as hell. Says he has something he doesn't and this says "It might not be in stock". No kidding.

JimJD
January 6, 2004, 08:55 PM
I thought the ones pictured above have a grip design similar to the discontinued CZ 40B.

PCRCCW
January 6, 2004, 11:17 PM
Youre right it does. The top/bottom aka 1911 screw design is that way on the 40......that wont change. But the machined lines may change slightly.....hell, I dont know...well just have to wait and see. :D

Shoot well.

MoNsTeR
January 7, 2004, 10:59 AM
And when I said it didn't have a slide lock did anyone believe me? :neener:

tomkatz
January 7, 2004, 12:16 PM
From what I understood it always had a slidelock but not a slide release lever? Anyway, glad to see it will be offered with both options, and I can't wait to lay my paws on one of these little gems:D .....tom

George Hill
January 7, 2004, 01:16 PM
What a PUNK!

Check out the emails:

MESSAGE FROM USER:
REGARDING ITEM #: 14862303
ITEM TITLE: CZ 2075 Rami 9mm or 40sw
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=14862303
Hello:
Do you have these pistols in stock, or is this a pre-order?
Didn't think they were approved for import yet.
Thanks for any info.

From: <ton80@mindspring.com>
To: withheld
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:18 AM
Subject: RE: Question regarding GunBroker.com Item 14862303
I AM TAKING PREORDERS. CALL TOLL FREE 1-888-207-2220 TO ORDER.
THANKS PHIL

Phil – You said on the auction: “We ensure this item is in stock at the beginning of the auction. However, inventories do shift and we cannot 100% guarantee immediate availability. In the unlikely case of a back order, we will honor the auction price and ship your item as quickly as possible. If rush delivery is needed, please contact us toll free: 888-207-2220”
This is deceitful. This is lying. I call bullcrap on this dealer.
I knew he was shady... but this is outright fraud.

Feh.
:cuss:
I've reported this guy to GunBroker and I'm looking forward to see what they do with this fraudulant dealer.

Shweboner
January 7, 2004, 02:47 PM
This is the same idiot who was scanning CenterfireSystems catalogs and photoshopping bogus prices onto the ad and then selling the gun at a 'discounted' price.

Yes, good ol' ton80 home of the $800 century-built CETME! But you get it at an unbelievable price of ONLY $595!!!!!!!!!!

OMG! Why aren't we there bidding now?????

Him and I went rounds (via email) about that auction last year... I had to call him on it. He of course, defended:rolleyes:


~Brian

I want to know where he found these suckers that actually bought fromhim and gave good feedback????:barf:

tomkatz
January 7, 2004, 03:49 PM
I agree this is wrong and pretty much borders on internet fraud, alot of folks who don't have any inside info get sucked into these kinds of things. He should be booted off the auction sites IMO:cuss: ......tom

George Hill
January 10, 2004, 01:50 PM
This is not considered fraud since the seller delivers the item to the buyer. Please keep in mind that transactions can take up to 3 weeks to be completed. So the seller can list something that he does not have in his immediate possession then contact his distributor and have the item delivered within 1-2 days. If for some reason the distribute is out of stock then the seller will have a problem.



How can this dealer deliver a gun that wont be introduced until SHOT?
:fire: :cuss: :fire:

And another note from GunBroker:

There is no way for us to verify what you are saying. If you have some kind of proof then we will look at it.


GunBroker.com... Feh.

tomkatz
January 10, 2004, 03:03 PM
Yeah, so much for these auction sites standing behind the buyer, all they are interested in is protecting the sellers so they make the $$$$$$$$....tom

PCRCCW
January 10, 2004, 04:45 PM
George,
You want proof..have them look at the date he posted the RAMI up for sale and then Ill have CZUSA send me an email with the expected delivery date of the RAMI to Distribution. We can nail him if you want.........EASY!

If they want proof, We can accomidate that! :D

Shoot well...........

BTW..Congrats on the CZF thing............Kev is killer isnt he!

George Hill
January 10, 2004, 09:10 PM
Yeah, my arm still hurts.

Send that email... I want to see if GB will actually do something even if they have proof.

MaterDei
January 13, 2004, 03:55 PM
Any update on this? He has another one up for sale.

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=15068150

tomkatz
January 13, 2004, 04:21 PM
He doesn't have em, don't be fooled :D ....when he has the Rami everyone else will too........tom

MaterDei
January 13, 2004, 04:41 PM
I'm tempted to email him and tell him I'll give him $550 for one if he can deliver it within a week.

R127
January 13, 2004, 04:51 PM
RAMI just got better! First I heard they would be steel, then I heard they would be aluminum. I like aluminum more than I like plastic, but not much. I have never met a heavy pistol. I'd prefer steel.

George Hill
January 13, 2004, 06:05 PM
Email to Seller:

Could you do me a favor and email me a picture of this gun you have in stock, sitting ontop of today's newspaper with the date showing?
I don't believe you have these in stock.

Let's see if he answers.

George Hill
January 13, 2004, 06:33 PM
WHAT IS IN IT FOR ME. WILL DO FOR 100.00

Nice.
Let's see if he get's real next time.

PCRCCW
January 13, 2004, 07:21 PM
Seller: "What's in it for me?"

George: "Well, how about you just might sell a gun...DUMBA$$!" :D

Thats PHIL again. Ive got his phone # if anyone wants it......
Id love to know how hes selling a gun thats not even out for distrubution......hmmmmmmmm :scrutiny:

Shoot well..........

George Hill
January 13, 2004, 08:20 PM
I've given him the URL for this discussion...
He has not responded. Methinks him a ratfink.

Zundfolge
January 13, 2004, 11:31 PM
I bought an AR upper and lower from that guy and he seemed on the level (gave me a good deal ... shipped quickly)

I would hate to find out I did business with a ratfink :mad:

WonderNine
January 14, 2004, 01:50 AM
How much is the RAMI supposed to weigh?

tomkatz
January 14, 2004, 03:55 AM
here are the specs.....

Length: 6.57 inches
Barrel Length: 3.00 inches
Sight Radius: 4.92 inches
Width: 1.26 inches
Height W/Mag: 4.72 inches
Weight W/Empty Mag: 24.5 oz.
Weight W/Full Mag: 28.6 oz.
Magazine Capacity: 10 in 9mm, 8 in .40

WonderNine
January 14, 2004, 04:11 AM
That's not bad at all for a full metal gun of that size. I'd have no problem pocket carrying one of those in a coat. I'm so getting one! ....after an MK9 Elite 2003 of course.... :D

TarpleyG
January 14, 2004, 01:07 PM
Anyone know Wildalaska's status on the proposed group buy for these things???

GT

George Hill
January 14, 2004, 01:15 PM
IMPORTANT UPDATE:
He just sent me a photo of a RAMI on the current issue of USA today.
He has one.
I stand corrected and I offer my appologies.

I'd post the picture but he sent it in a strange file type... I can open it in Mozilla, but I can't save it as a JPG or post it here.
If you want it, I'll send it to you.

He's got them. I don't know how he's got them, I didn't know they were distributed yet... but he's got at least one of them! SN A0001? So is that the first one off production line?

MaterDei
January 14, 2004, 01:51 PM
Wow!

He's selling SN A0001 for $449 on gunbroker.com?

Excellent!

Oh, wait a minute, you mean his CZ rep sent him the picture and the ones he is selling aren't available yet? (Call me cynical.)

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 14, 2004, 01:52 PM
I look forward to PCRCCW's response/input! :cool:

Mikul
January 14, 2004, 02:22 PM
George,

If you send me a copy of the file, I will convert it and post it in this forum.

MaterDei
January 14, 2004, 02:33 PM
Courtesy of George...
http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=727027

680x0
January 14, 2004, 03:05 PM
double you tea eff?

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 14, 2004, 03:26 PM
MAN!!! Is this thread ever getting interesting!!!

George Hill
January 14, 2004, 05:51 PM
Looking at that gun closer, we see it's been fired a lot. This is gun that he has... but he isn't selling it.
This is how he can say "I have it in inventory when I posted the auction"... and explains why when asked before, he said "Pre-Order".

Still uncomfortable... still would not bid.

Called CZUSA - should have done this first.
I was told that they not only have not released this gun to distributors yet, but they have not even imported them yet.
This one was sent to a certain gun magazine. (Not SWAT - DANG IT!) So it's a press sample of some sort... obviously. NAA lent me a .32NAA Guardian that I reviewed for SWAT, first .32NAA Guardian in the hands of anyone not involved in the project... so gun makers do this... not suprising... How this dealer has this gun, he had no idea... but he is going to look into it. This GunBroker dealer is certainly not selling this example... and since these guns are not yet distributed...

Photogragh or not - The auction is a shame and this dealer is committing outright fraud.
Gunbroker.com has been again notified.

Kudos to CZ-USA for the excellent support in this matter. Great gun company - one of the finest.

larryw
January 14, 2004, 06:48 PM
I may be entirely/way-way off base here, but that looks like a Photoshop job to me. A very good one, but it doesn't look "right". Noted are the reflection on the bottom of the mag and trigger guard (easy to do in PS), but the shadows, saturation and focus of the two objects just don't look right to my eye. Is it just me?

I'm probably wrong here and do apologize in advance if that's the case.

citizen
January 14, 2004, 08:38 PM
larryw that was my FIRST reaction; what do I know??????:uhoh:

WonderNine
January 14, 2004, 11:06 PM
It does not look like a photoshop to me.

mete
January 14, 2004, 11:15 PM
It isn't a photoshop job since there is a reflection on the bottom of the trigger guard from the letters below it. Obviously a pre distribution sample.

WonderNine
January 14, 2004, 11:17 PM
What's with that tall ugly rear site. :barf:

Mikul
January 15, 2004, 02:42 AM
That serial number is A0001.

It's a pre-production sample/demo gun.

Methinks he a resourceful ratfink.

larryw
January 15, 2004, 11:41 AM
mete, as I said, those reflections are easy easy to do in Photoshop. Shadows and reflections on the gun don't match what should be on the paper based on the light source: the gun looks like its floating. (By the way, where's the reflection of the vertical line on the mag well? Smooth surface, bright light, even a thin line would show some.)

Try this, put the picture on your screen and stand back 15 or 20 feet. Then tell me its real.

Mikul's bingo comment on the serial number notwithstanding, the more I look at it, the more convinced I am that its a hack. Now I understand why he wanted $100 for the picture, it was to pay the person doing the Photoshop work.

extremefishin00
January 15, 2004, 12:52 PM
I agree with larryw. It just doesn't look right.

Chris

Kamicosmos
January 15, 2004, 12:53 PM
*Homer Simpson Voice* Mmmmm Paris Hilton *end Homer Simpson Voice*

To stay somewhat on topic, I like the RAMI the more I see it...I may have to pick up a .40 cal when they get here.

MaterDei
January 15, 2004, 01:18 PM
I've spoken with the guy on the phone in the past and, fwiw, I don't think he would be the kind of guy who would/could come up with an elaborate hoax just to humor us THRers. Whether the photo is real or not is a non issue anyway. The issue is that he does NOT have what he says he has. The gun in the photo is clearly not his to sell and even if it was it is clearly not a new gun, which is what he claims to be selling.

All I know is that I want one and that I'll have to wait at least until they are on the market to get one.

mete
January 15, 2004, 01:54 PM
larryw, maybe , but I haven't had very much experience with my photoshop. A professional photographer friend said to me that you can't trust photos today, you can do almost anything to them and it would be impossible to detect......Anyway it's amazing how many compact pistols there are today. I remember the old days when if you wanted something small you had to go to a 380.

raz-0
January 15, 2004, 02:13 PM
As a note, had a friend who bought a RRA ar off ton80, and they will never do so again. (it took something like 8 weeks before it was shipped and the guy kept on lying about who had it and how long the wait would be. )

The guy doesn't even have run of the mill inventory in stock, much less anything like this.

MaterDei
January 15, 2004, 02:42 PM
Anyway it's amazing how many compact pistols there are today. I remember the old days when if you wanted something small you had to go to a 380.
I guess that if you had to find something positive about the AWB, this is it. :)

PCRCCW
January 15, 2004, 03:30 PM
Ok..Gary, here I am :D

Im not surprised by this.....ok, alittle. The serial # is indeed a gun that is one of the 3 in the country that are out for Gun Rag Reviews. They are NOT....Ill repeat this.......NOT even to the distributors yet. Phil is pretty determined to run with this one.....so be it.

I still say we get him off of the auction sites..........I can provide proof to the controllers in about 3 seconds.........one phone call.

Dont worry about the Photoshop thing.......seriously. Whether or not the gun is real really doesnt matter. ITS STILL NOT FOR SALE REGARDLESS.

Shoot well.................

George Hill
January 15, 2004, 04:38 PM
I still have my complaint as an open ticket to GunBroker.com but they have yet to do anything about it.
Perhaps if more people file a complaint.

Daniel T
January 15, 2004, 04:47 PM
I seriously doubt they will do anything about it. If you look at newer model NIB handguns, ton80 has about 80% of the auctions. He probably makes them too much money for them to worry about piddling little things like honesty.

tomkatz
January 15, 2004, 04:53 PM
I filed a complaint with gunbroker, and I told the seller I would buy the gun shown, yeah I know he won't sell it to me but I will show Gunbroker that he won't honor the sale, and yeah it won't do any good, but like george said we should just innundate gunbroker with feedback about this.......tom

George Hill
January 15, 2004, 08:03 PM
If worst case you get this gun... A0001... you got a collector.

tomkatz
January 16, 2004, 03:05 AM
Yes if he would(could) sell it to me I would buy it and keep it as a collector for sure.....
I don't know why this has torqued me off so bad. This guy just wants to grab customers using dishonest means and I am calling B.S. on him.....I wonder if I will hear from him:rolleyes: ......tom

Caliburn
January 17, 2004, 12:08 AM
That's one pretty little unit! CZ says it's based on the 75 line. Will it use the same magazines?

When is the SHOT show?

tomkatz
January 17, 2004, 12:40 AM
The shot show is february 12-15, here is the shotshow website link....
http://www.shotshow.org/

the rami will use any double stack cz mag, of course it will hang out the appropriate amount :D .....tom

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 18, 2004, 10:59 AM
Although not THAT much different....

http://www.rf-hobby.cz/zbranenaboje/fotky/17_!121.jpg
http://www.rf-hobby.cz/zbranenaboje/fotky/17_!122.jpg

:D :cool:

George Hill
January 22, 2004, 01:08 PM
Good news: Gunbroker.com is now goign to officially look into this and is now making inquiry to CZ-USA about this case.

SWEET!

Badger Arms
January 22, 2004, 01:37 PM
He still has a CZ Rami for sale on Gunbroker? The auctions, current and closed, all Guarantee that the item is in stock. I seriously doubt this guy keeps all these guns in stock, rather I suspect he runs the ads knowing that he can get them at some time from his distributer, Davidsons? At any rate, this guy is shady.

Badger Arms
January 22, 2004, 01:47 PM
So he's got 1300 items, mostly guns, for sale and only two have 'bids'. I wouldn't call those bids, I'd call them sales. One was a used gun and the other was a New $150 jobby from Davidsons. I'd almost guarantee he just orders them up from Davidsons as soon as he gets a winning bid. He's basically lying. BS. I'm going to submit my complaint now.

tomkatz
January 22, 2004, 03:02 PM
Yes!!!!keep those complaints rollin in folks....and George, that is good news, maybe justice will be served, I never heard back from him BTW, and I let gunbroker know that:D .....tom

axeman_g
January 22, 2004, 03:09 PM
I noticed this auction a few weeks ago. The problem is, I know this dealer, not well, but well enough. I have purchsed a CZ85, SpringfieldXD40, P22 and CZ .22 Rifle from him. I also bought a JVC 36" TV from him. He is a shark, but he can be a good shark. I actually had to return the TV to him because it did not fit my TV Armoire. No problems. His handgun prices are usually very competitive. I was about to see him about a Glock19.

I was sorry to see this auction and saddened to see that he feels the need to pull the wool over peoples eyes to make a sale.

I may have to go to his place and talk to him face to face. Maybe he will show me his inventory of Ramis' :scrutiny:

Axe

Badger Arms
January 22, 2004, 04:31 PM
"ton80" said in reply to my question about whether the Rami was in stock or not:WILL BE IN STOCK APPROX 3 WEEKSHmmmm, says on the auction and has said since the beginning of December that the gun is IN STOCK. I'm not confused at all.

As for the comment about reasonable prices, go to the dealer locator on Auctionarms or Gunbroker. Find ANY dealer in your area and ask them if they will order a new gun from Davidsons. Heck, you can check inventory yourself and find a Davidsons dealer near you here: Davidsons Web Page (http://www.galleryofguns.com/)

Knowing the business well, Davidsons only occasionally has a reasonable price on guns. You can usually cut about 5-10% off by going with another wholesaler... even under their volume dealer programs. Most garage dealers would be more than happy to make 5-10% on a gun and you can find one that is actually honest. My question about this guy is that if he will outright lie in his advertising, what can you trust about him?

George Hill
January 22, 2004, 05:29 PM
Will be in stock in about 3 weeks huh? How does he know that? CZ-USA doesn't even know that.

only1asterisk
January 22, 2004, 05:43 PM
Rami price check: $394.46-399.13 +shipping, tax, title, fees and a little something for your dealer. You guys will likely know before I when they are in stock.

David

Badger Arms
January 22, 2004, 05:59 PM
Heck, why not buy 2 Kel-Tec P11 pistols for that price. Personally, I think the Rami is ugly as sin.

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 22, 2004, 06:03 PM
I'm shocked!

:what: :mad: :uhoh: :scrutiny:


I'll have to go to church now and clense the sinful text I just read!




That's OK Badger Arms . . . . . I'll just make ya suffer through the pics I'm gonna post of mine! :D

axeman_g
January 22, 2004, 10:16 PM
Gary,

Let me make this clear, I am not defending Phil's actions in anyway. The guy can be squirely. I bought from him because he seems to have reasonable prices for things I wanted. He never tried to overtly cheat me and therefore I never suspected he would stoop to something like this Rami sale!

Examples I can recall.. CZ85 Combat for $419 ... XD40 for $425 ...P22 was $239 when everyone else here in Atlanta wanted $330 for them.

But this has been stated many times on this board before .. gun store owners and sales people are sometimes not the most forthright, honest and reliable indiviuals in the world. Buyer Beware.

I myself now will not do business with him because of this. But if I dig around too much into all my local FFL dealings I migth come up a little stinky. I have one local lady flat out lie to my face about the ability of Walther P99 to use SW 9 mm hicaps. Ohh and she wanted $639 for the gun .... I was not even going to get the reach around on that scr@wing if I fell for it.

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 22, 2004, 10:25 PM
Huh?

axeman_g - was that explanation for me or another Gary? I was just Bustin' on Badger. :evil:

George Hill
January 22, 2004, 11:42 PM
Personally, I think the Rami is ugly as sin.

:scrutiny:
Gary....
Bust'em again...
:scrutiny:

George Hill
January 22, 2004, 11:43 PM
:neener:

Badger Arms
January 22, 2004, 11:47 PM
Gary and George:

Much uglier than a CZ Rami:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=739859

Slightly Prettier than a CZ Rami:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=746462

All-in-all, I think most guns are pretty. Babies are always cute too... so long as they are your own.

DougB
January 23, 2004, 01:30 AM
I've never bought or sold a gun on a web auction (or even bid on one), and I don't know anything about the dealer in question. I agree that it is clearly wrong for him to say he has a gun in stock if he doesn't. That said, I believe that gun distributors (like Davidson's) typically ship handguns via some sort of priority shipping method, so a dealer could probably get a gun within a couple of days if the distributor has it in stock. So, would it really be a big deal if a dealer auctioned a gun that he doesn't actually have yet, provided he knows he can get it within a few days? Of course, offering a gun that isn't actually avaiable yet (like the Rami) is different, but I think if I bought a gun through an auction, and the seller shipped it to me within a week or so, I'd be happy - I wouldn't care if he had it in his hands when I bid on it - as long as he was SURE he could get a new one for me quickly. I can see how this might let dealers offer less popular guns that they'd be unwilling to buy for their inventory, but might be happy to order if a customer bid on it. Couldn't this be a win-win for the dealer and the customer?

Doug

raz-0
January 23, 2004, 01:55 AM
you know what? if an auction says that an item is not in stock but will be ordered at auction close, and the price is right, I wouldn't mind one bit.

But this guy goes around claiming things are in stock always, and they NEVER are. His supplier is substantially less than reliable on delivery times at points. And he lies about all the above.

axeman_g
January 23, 2004, 01:18 PM
my head is not where it needs to be ... no cracks !!!

My argument was with Badger, not Gary in Pa. My bad ...

Gary, please accept this as an apology.

Axe

Gary in Pennsylvania
January 23, 2004, 01:22 PM
:neener:











No Prob!

axeman_g
January 29, 2004, 03:17 PM
I saw this dealer last week ... he said he did not have a Rami in stock, had just sold it not an hour before to a guy. I call BS!!!

I told him that information was, that the Ramis were not even being delivered to distributors for a few weeks ...how did he come about getting some.

He told me he had an inside track to CZ. Said he was going to be getting some more real shortly.

I expressed my disbelief for this and told him that I found his advertising /sales techniques undersirable. I did not think that he would ever see any of my money again.

Has anyone heard anything from GB about his auctions? There is still one up there.

Axe

George Hill
January 29, 2004, 03:29 PM
Nope. No news yet.
Somehow he does indeed have an inside track at CZ-USA... However CZ-USA themselves are unaware of who this guy is. How he got hold of the Press Sample, they are not sure. And if he sold it, that was a no no as that gun is property of CZ-USA.

This guy is FULL of BS. I will NEVER buy a thing from him... not even a bottle of Breakfree.

tomkatz
January 29, 2004, 03:33 PM
I have heard nothing, apparently gunbroker doesn't really care about the buyers, they do after all make their money off the sellers, but I am glad we let them know what we think of this kind of business practice, and I for one won't be giving this guy my business.........tom
(then again, if the buyers don't buy, there is no money to be made, so theoretically they(gunbroker) should go out of their way to make everyone happy)

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