C & R License ~ Easy Process


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PRM
March 9, 2011, 08:04 AM
If you have ever considered one, this is an easy process. Cost is 30$ for 3 years.

It took me about 10 minutes to fill out the forms. No fingerprints or photo required, one form to the ATF, one to your CLEO, and a residency declaration. No action on the CLEOs part required unless they have cause to block it. You can easily make up the cost on one purchase, plus a lot of places give additional discounts. You will have to keep a record of purchases and dispositions. C&R is a collectors license ~ you cannot use it as a business.

Here is a good link to the forms:

http://www.jgsales.com/getcr.php?SID

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Macrosill
March 9, 2011, 09:11 AM
Thanks for this post. Just filled out the application and will be sending it in tomorrow.

strmday
March 9, 2011, 09:13 AM
Yep. Great pieces of history sent right to your door. Midwayusa and Brownells give a considerable discount for C&R holders. C&R market is not what it was a few years back but there are still some nice firearms available.

LethalCep
March 9, 2011, 11:13 AM
How old do you have to be to obtain one?

towboat_er
March 9, 2011, 11:30 AM
Sent in the paperwork a couple weeks ago.

mgmorden
March 9, 2011, 11:37 AM
Just a note: I'd high recommend always getting your forms from the ATF's website. J&G does appear to be linking to the forms there which is good, but just be aware of that source rather than downloading forms from some other sources.

Government agencies change from time to time and if you're not getting them from the official source, you may be using an outdated form. They specifically warn against using online forms obtained elsewhere (a warning prompted by them receiving some invalid forms) and say that such applications will be rejected.

Other than that note though, all good information. For most of the time between 2003 and 2010 I've had a C&R - between renewals right now, but just the discounts from Brownells and Midway are well worth the license.

shotgunjoel
March 9, 2011, 02:40 PM
How old do you have to be to obtain one?
21.

Remo223
March 9, 2011, 02:46 PM
Anyone have a link to a site that will explain the cuttoff between C&R and not C&R firearms? I might do this if the cutoff isn't too far back. For instance, if the cutoff is 1900, I'm probably not interested.

xquercus
March 9, 2011, 03:19 PM
Remo,

See this ATF page for a detailed description of what falls under C&R:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/

Remo223
March 9, 2011, 03:28 PM
50 years eh? That's usable. It would be better if it was 25 years. Anyone know if there is any organization (NRA for instance?) trying to change the 50 year cutoff to something less?

PRM
March 9, 2011, 05:30 PM
Remo223, 50 years is a general guideline. There are guns less than that on the C&R list.

The CZ 82 is on the list, you just have to check the listings.

nalioth
March 9, 2011, 05:35 PM
The C&R license is a Type 03 FFL (this is why C&R licensees get FFL discounts from vendors - they are considered an FFL holder)

There are two parts to it
"Curio" - this includes firearms of collectible interest, which can include sub-50-year-old firearms such as the Czech Cz-82 pistols (produced in the '80s) and Albanian SKS rifles (produced in the '70s).

"Relic" - this is any firearm manufactured over 50 years ago.

mgmorden
March 10, 2011, 09:34 AM
Remo223, 50 years is a general guideline. There are guns less than that on the C&R list.

The CZ 82 is on the list, you just have to check the listings.

Indeed. What it basically boils down to is a license for collectors. Not required to collect, but just to make it easier on us. The basic thought is that ANYTHING more than 50 years old has some collector's value. However, some other guns less than that may also have collector's value. The CZ-82 for example, is on the list because it's parent country, Czechoslavakia (sp?), no longer exists.

Overall though, you just kinda have to accept what they list as C&R. There are a ton of guns with collector's value that are less than 50 years old and will never make it on the list.

Also of note: while in most cases "the receiver is the gun", that doesn't apply for C&R purposes. The gun must be in original condition with original spec equipment. It's a grey area here. If you replaced the firing pin on a CZ-52 with a newer one that's not as brittle, then the overall purpose and design of the gun is unchanged, so it's still C&R. Same thing on period-correct replacements. If you get a gunwith a broken stock and use one of the original contour replacements from somewhere like Boyd's, then it's still the same basic type of gun, so your'e good. On the other hand, if you take an old Mauser rifle and rebarrel it, drill and tap it, put on a new monte carlo stock, and reblue it, then though the receiver might still be 50 years old, as far as the ATF is concerned it's no longer a qualifying C&R gun. Sporterizing and other such modifications essentially "reset" the build date. It technically would be C&R again 50 years after the sporterization, but that's something that's mighty hard to prove.

Also, while pretty much all of the big surplus dealers like AIM, SOG, CAI, Centerfire, etc, accept a C&R no problem, there are many sellers on places like Gunbroker who won't accept a C&R - particularly for guns whose age is the qualifier rather than being specifically named. In those cases there's not much you can do - you just have to buy elsewhere or go the traditional route through a dealer.

Due note though: your C&R acquisition record (bound book) must be updated for ANY eligible firearm that comes into your possession - whether you used the C&R license to obtain it or not. That means that if you buy an eligible gun at a gun store and still do the standard 4473 and NICS check on it like any other gun, you still have to come home and log it into your records.

Overall though, I wouldn't look for the 50 year mark to be reduced anytime soon. I'm surprised the C&R program is even still around. Seems like something the grabbers would be fighting tooth and nail, but I don't think most of them are too aware of it in the first place. I don't want to bring it too far out into the spotlight. Heck even one older gunsmith that I visited to do a transfer on a gun was complaining that C&R licensees shouldn't be able to get old 1911's because it's a design that's still in common use today. This was supposedly one of the "good guys" on our side, but was basically viewing the C&R program as if it were some loophole.

PRM
March 10, 2011, 10:23 AM
Heck even one older gunsmith that I visited to do a transfer on a gun was complaining that C&R licensees shouldn't be able to get old 1911's because it's a design that's still in common use today. This was supposedly one of the "good guys" on our side, but was basically viewing the C&R program as if it were some loophole.

I suspect that sentiment has more to do with "his" money being affected on a transfer rather than anything else.

Due note though: your C&R acquisition record (bound book) must be updated for ANY eligible firearm that comes into your possession - whether you used the C&R license to obtain it or not. That means that if you buy an eligible gun at a gun store and still do the standard 4473 and NICS check on it like any other gun, you still have to come home and log it into your records.

Good info.

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