Question about AUGs...


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JackTheRipper
March 9, 2011, 10:30 PM
I'm still debating on which AR-15 to get, but I didn't want to rule out perhaps getting an AUG...

Anyone have any opinion on AUG brands and which model to get? MSAR? Steyr? Any other good one?

Doesn't seem to be much current info on the forum about them...

Thanks!

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Master Blaster
March 10, 2011, 08:23 AM
They are accurate and reliable. You can't reconfigure them easily with different optics sights and barrel lengths and go from a heavy varmint barrel and longrange scope to a M4 clone with a red dot, by changing the upper like an AR.

The trigger sucks and cant be improved much, and they are less than optimal for lefthanders.

navajo
March 10, 2011, 10:11 AM
Friend of mine has one. I find it awkward to shoulder with a pretty bad trigger. But thats just me.

Tirod
March 10, 2011, 10:17 AM
AUG is the best bullpup design on the American market. As said, it's not modular, you can't change it much, like a HK gun, it is what it is.

The bullpup concept has a lot of different attributes, which affect use and handling. Few compare them to other carbines, but a little thought brings it out. The optic setup is required on them, because iron sights are so short and inherently less accurate. That optic isn't easily changed unless the mount is railed. The magazines are proprietary, AUG only, and fast reloads three gun style not much possible.

Point being, it sacrifices a lot to put the action as far back into the butt as possible. That means the advantages of the traditional layout and having the controls, magazine, and barrel length forward are traded off. For example, which is better for CQB, a standard M16A2 20" barrel with bayonet, or the AUG with bayonet? One has a lot more reach than another, and standoff to strike the enemy is the paramount rule of combatives. It's the whole point of using air, missile, artillery, and crew served weapons long before they can respond with rifle fire under 500m.

As a sporting firearm for civilian use, not as important, which is why they sell better than in international defense circles.

JustinJ
March 10, 2011, 03:11 PM
I beg to differ. I have and MSAR and love it. In the past the company has had a number of quality issues but most seem to have been worked out with the current rilfes and customer service has always been excellent. As far as modularity go to: http://www.ratworxusa.com/ratworxusa.com/pagCatalog.aspx?xCategoryID=Accessories
Longer top rails are available that allow a longer sight radius with BUIS. There are also multiple rail mounting points on the stock and receiver to allow for any accessory you can think of. Not to mention, a barrel change out can be done in under 30 seconds. The problem is spare barrels are not yet readily available although MSAR claims they will be this year. Caliber change out kits are also expected and will require only swapping the bolt, barrel and mag which is much easier to carry around than a complter upper. Complete rifles are currently available in 5.56, 5.45, 7.62x39, and 6.8 but hopefully kits will be too this year. To be honest kits and spare barrels have been being talked about for a while so who knows if they'll really become available soon.
In regards to propierty mags, the E4 stocks use AR mags.
A mag change may be a little slower with an AUG platform but in reality that is irrelevant in a real combat situation. Also, there are a couple of products out there that greatly improve the trigger pull. Owning several ARs i will say that when it comes to CQB MSARs and AUGs blow the AR out of the water. I would love to have a real AUG but since i've got my MSAR already there are other rifles i plan to buy first but if you can find and afford one real AUGs are a better choice.

TIMC
March 10, 2011, 04:20 PM
I love my E-4 MSAR and that it takes AR mags makes it even better. I find it fun to shoot and a great plinker. The gun is just as accurate as my M-4gery at 100 yards. I say get one if you want but I would also say get the AR first because there are many more options for the AR and then buy an MSAR.

451 Detonics
March 10, 2011, 04:27 PM
Only one I owned was an Steyr NFA gun. Never was real happy with the trigger but it was nice have the parts for right or left hand and the accuracy was pretty good despite the donut reticle. The fore grip aided greatly in full auto.

Today I would prefer a good AR...

Onmilo
March 10, 2011, 04:29 PM
I am under the impression MSARs are out of production at the time since Sabre was closed down.
There is talk that Colt and a few other private firms are contemplating the purchase of the Sabre assets.

TIMC
March 10, 2011, 04:36 PM
I haven't heard that; their website is still up and they have some news infor about possible collaberations. If they did go under I have a really expensive rare MSAR for sale! ;)

JustinJ
March 10, 2011, 04:44 PM
What does Sabre have to do with MSAR? Sabre was licensed to produce AUGs by Steyr so those are not being produced. MSAR is a completely different company.

Onmilo
March 10, 2011, 04:45 PM
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/02/10/steyr-auga3-sa-production-stopped-last-october/

The word I am getting is MSAR hasn't produced anything since last September either and what is available is old stock that was batch produced up through September 2010.

I have been trying to obtain an MSAR through local sources and what they are telling me is nothing from the company, I have to procure one from online sources.

JustinJ
March 10, 2011, 05:02 PM
The above link is about Steyr, not MSAR.

My local has MSARs available and Ratwork recently put up a bunch of various caliber rifles from MSAR. I take everything i hear about MSAR on the web with 62 grains of salt.

GCBurner
March 10, 2011, 09:12 PM
AUGs and their magazines are MUCH more expensive than the AR types, and AR spare parts are much more widely available than parts from Steyr.

Quiet
March 10, 2011, 10:19 PM
Sabre and Steyr were in buisness together to make the Steyr AUG-A3 SA in the USA, in order to avoid "sporting purpose" requirement for importation. With Sabre shutting down, the Steyr AUG-A3 SA is no longer in production.

MSAR is still in buissness making their AUG clones.

Onmilo
March 11, 2011, 06:03 PM
This is all good news.
I may own an AUG type rifle yet!:)

Magpul EMAGS,,good to go in the MSAR??

GCBurner
March 11, 2011, 07:27 PM
This is all good news.
I may own an AUG type rifle yet!:)

Magpul EMAGS,,good to go in the MSAR??
I don't think so, I think the MSAR still uses the proprietary AUG type see-through plastic mags.

JustinJ
March 11, 2011, 07:43 PM
MSAR has two stocks. The E4 uses AR mags(metal and pmags at least).

Remo223
March 11, 2011, 07:50 PM
Bullpups have inferior triggers. Nothing beats an AR for options. I wish someone made an AR shotgun.

JackTheRipper
March 13, 2011, 01:09 AM
I shouldered a MSAR today and wow, it felt great! I was really surprised how great and natural it felt!

I dunno about that brand, I have read some positive/negative things about it, I think I rather get the Steyr...

They were asking $2,000 for the MSAR... Is that a decent price?

TIMC
March 13, 2011, 11:34 AM
I shouldered a MSAR today and wow, it felt great! I was really surprised how great and natural it felt!

I dunno about that brand, I have read some positive/negative things about it, I think I rather get the Steyr...

They were asking $2,000 for the MSAR... Is that a decent price? I have had no issues with my 16" MSAR E-4. I did send it in for the recall before I ever shot it to replace the mag release. I like mine and have no complaints.

$2000 for an MSAR is pretty high even for the E-4 version. Mine was $1800 out the door.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/MSARE4.jpg?t=1300026810

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