Load data for Winchester 9mm 124 grain bullets.


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slowr1der
March 11, 2011, 01:34 AM
So I ordered some of the Winchester 124 grain 9mm bullets. My question is, what's the best way to find load data for these? In the past I've always used Hornady, Speer, etc or one of the companies who produce a reloading manual so I could just follow the manual. Since Winchester doesn't have a manual what's the best load data to use? Also for OAL is it safe to just seat these to the same OAL as the factory Winchester White Box ammo?

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ArchAngelCD
March 11, 2011, 01:39 AM
What powder are you using? All the powder companies have load data online now.

W231/HP-38 is a good choice for practice ammo. For more serious work give Longshot a try. Data for both powders and all Hodgdon/ Winchester/ IMR powders is available on the Hodgdon Load Data site (http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp).

slowr1der
March 11, 2011, 03:08 AM
Honestly, I'm not sure which powder to use. I was hoping to find out which powders worked well with this bullet.

Sky King
March 11, 2011, 10:39 AM
Here's a link to Hodgon's web site, who manufacture the Winchester and Hodgon line of powder.
I use HP38/WW231 with 115gr and 124gr Winchester bullets using Hodgdon's reloading data.
http://hodgdon.com
Also a link to "Winchester's Components Catalog" which has data too.
http://www.chinapdf.com/PDF-samples/product-brochure/reloadersmanual.pdf

TheCracker
March 11, 2011, 04:14 PM
I like a reloading manual but I ALWAYS double check and use the manufacturers website for load data.

The only powder I've ever tried loading for 9mm is universal clays. Ive had awesome results. It is very clean burning and is a small flake powder that meters exceptionally well for me. It does seem that for accuracy both of my 9mm's like the upper end of the charges.

Cherokee
March 11, 2011, 06:21 PM
231 is an easy powder to use in 9mm. I use it with the Winchester 124 FMJRN bulet with good results.

GLShooter
March 11, 2011, 08:09 PM
I use 231 on about 95% of my 9 MM no matter what the weight. HP38 is the same stuff BTW.

Greg

slowr1der
March 11, 2011, 08:26 PM
Thanks guys. Looks like I need to pick up some 231 powder.

Seedtick
March 11, 2011, 11:39 PM
Thanks guys. Looks like I need to pick up some 231 powder.

Get the HP38 - it's the same stuff and it's a little cheaper.

Seedtick

:)

Marlin 45 carbine
March 11, 2011, 11:43 PM
Power Pistol is good for 9mm 'hot' loads.

918v
March 12, 2011, 12:50 AM
N320 is good for 9mm poo-butt loads.

CZ57
March 12, 2011, 01:17 AM
http://www.ramshot.com Check out their load data for ZIP, Silhouette and True Blue. ZIP is very close to W231 but burns cleaner. Silhouette is for SD type loads with a flash inhibitor and True Blue is for all around use.;)

ArchAngelCD
March 12, 2011, 02:08 AM
Power Pistol is good for 9mm 'hot' loads.
True but the excessive flash is hard to get past. Longshot will do a better job like I mentioned in Post #2, IMO of course. Looks like there are a lot of W231/HP-38 fans here. We all can't be wrong! LOL

dacavasi
March 12, 2011, 02:25 AM
I use either Unique or W231 for that bullet weight. W231 is a very versatile powder and meters much better than the Unique.

slowr1der
March 12, 2011, 02:13 PM
One other question is the OAL of these. Should I go by what a manual says, or is it safe to just seat them the same as the factory Winchester White Box rounds? I've heard OAL is important since the 9mm headspaces on the case.

918v
March 12, 2011, 02:16 PM
OAL and headspace have nothing to do with one another.

RidgwayCO
March 12, 2011, 04:14 PM
I use VihtaVuori 3N37 for my factory-duplication 124gr FMJ-Encapsulated (a Hornady bullet) and Speer 124gr Gold Dot loads. Great velocity, low flash, very accurate, very clean. More expensive, but worth it IMHO.

VihtaVuori has their reloading data for 9mm Luger online at:

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/6/34

gamestalker
March 12, 2011, 05:09 PM
I just finished working up a load for the 124 grain XTP using HS6. 6.4 grs. to 6.8 is Hogdon's listed data. I'm worked up to 6.7 right now and it is very nice, certainly not a standard velocity load. The pressures are very stable, though they are in the higher working range. Above the 124 gr. bullet weight I've gone with Longshot, which has been working with a simular stable yet higher working pressure. Go to Hogdon's loading site for a fairly good list of loads to choose from that utilize IMR, Hogdon, and Winchester powder's.
I don't know what OAL will serve you well with that bullet, but I would think some where around 1.090" would be a good starting point. Take the barrel out of your gun and check to be sure you are not touching the lands at 1.090". If it isn't touching, then you should have a safe starting OAL to work with. It is also important be sure that OAL will cycle in your firearm well. I've found 1.100" to work well in mine.

slowr1der
March 13, 2011, 03:31 PM
OAL and headspace have nothing to do with one another.I must have misunderstood the reloading manual. I thought it said something about the 9mm headspacing on the case mouth or something to that effect.

bluetopper
March 13, 2011, 03:41 PM
All powder companies have a powder or two that will work very well for that bullet and all that I know of have load data listed online.

GLShooter
March 13, 2011, 04:11 PM
Quote:
OAL and head space have nothing to do with one another.

I must have misunderstood the reloading manual. I thought it said something about the 9mm headspacing on the case mouth or something to that effect.

9 MM's do head space on the mouth of the cartridge. OAL is the measurement from the base of the cartridge to the tip of the bullet.

OAL has no relationship to head space. It can make a difference on the jump of the bullet from the case into the lands. We adjust this in rifle cartridges all the time for maximum accuracy.

On an auto pistol we are usually stuck with the space available in the magazine to control our OAL. The only way to cheat on it is to run a non-standard magazine as in using 38 Super magazines with 9 MM ammunition. You could conceivably seat the bullet out far enough to engage the lands by doing this.

I have not checked the available space in my 9 MM's to see if that is possible but if you seated something like a 160 grain RN in the case you would have enough bullet inside the case mouth to give you proper bullet pull. The only 160 grain 9 MM's I'm shooting are in a 9X21 and that is a whole different horse race. :what:

Greg

rfwobbly
March 13, 2011, 04:32 PM
One other question is the OAL of these. Should I go by what a manual says, or is it safe to just seat them the same as the factory Winchester White Box rounds?

Maximum OAL is determined by how your bullet fits your barrel. In other words, since we're not there with you, that's something you have to find out for yourself.

Minimum physical OAL on 9mm is somewhere around 1.050" because feeding issues usually start to show up.

Minimum usable OAL should always be what's listed in your reloading book. You can certainly go longer, out to the maximum the barrel will allow. But for safety's sake don't go shorter because the pressure increases, and you can't be sure by how much.

Things get really interesting when the only published load you can find is for 1.160", but your barrel will only accept 1.100". But even that can be conquered.

If we knew the type/model gun we might be able to get you close. Here's a cartoon to try to help you understand...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_E3bV2jGIaSg/S3Y1qnAy0NI/AAAAAAAAAw0/k_wHN8JAlPg/s720/Rifling%20Depth.jpg


I must have misunderstood the reloading manual. I thought it said something about the 9mm headspacing on the case mouth or something to that effect.
You read exactly correct, but you are confusing case (brass) length with over-all cartridge length (OAL). Case length on 9x19 Luger is always at or just under 19mm. OAL varies by how much the bullet sticks out of the finished case.

In the graphic above, see where the case mouth is butting up against the step at the end of the chamber? That's the headspacing on an auto-cartridge. It's done by the case, not the cartridge.


Hope this helps! ;)

gamestalker
March 13, 2011, 04:43 PM
I'm working with the 124 XTP right now which may not be the same OAL as what you are using. I think Hogdon listed the 124 FMJ with an OAL of 1.100". I would just check with them and other reliable sources to find a good working OAL. In my Speer manual it was stated that .030" deeper than SAMMI listed OAL produced pressures of over 62,000 PSI. I'm not trying to cause a panic here, but it is fairly improtant to use a good listed OAL to start from, and try not to go deeper than that by very much if possible. Magazine function and avoiding contact with the lands will probably set your limitations here.

918v
March 14, 2011, 01:37 AM
Use data appropriate to the bullet: i.e. TC data and OAL for TC bullets and RN data and OAL for RN bullets. Do not use RN data for TC bullets at short OAL's.

slowr1der
March 16, 2011, 08:52 PM
Well, I got Power Pistol powder today. I went to get Win 231 or HP38, but he was sold out of Win 231 and said he doesn't carry HP38 as he hasn't had anyone ask about it in about 10 years. He highly recommended Power Pistol powder, so I bought a pound of it. Now, my questions is what power range should I start with? On the site for Power Pistol it only lists load data for Speer GDHP's. Is it differen't for this Winchester FMJ bullet? I also saw it listed in the book he had from Hornady. Is it safe to just use the same load it recommends for Hornady bullets and just swap the bullets to the Winchester ones and use the same powder charge? Should I use the same OAL the Hornady manual states? Or should I go by what Winchester claims for this bullet with their powder when it concerns OAL?

ssyoumans
March 17, 2011, 11:57 AM
I don't load Power Pistol (PP) with 124gr bullets but thought I would share my experience with 115gr JHP and PP. It has lots of flash and matches that with very high velocity.

For my 115gr bullet, max is 6.7gr PP. I loaded some up with 5.9gr and 6.3gr for testing. The 5.9gr exceeded all Factory 115gr Loads (non +P) that I have tested except for Speer gold dots (which were 20fps faster than the 5.9gr load but slower than the 6.3gr load). I never loaded more than 6.3gr as 5.8gr became my standard load. It is a great max velocity powder in 9mm, but start at the minimums with this powder. I did not see any signs of excessive pressure, but just thought I would share my experience with it.
If you are a novice loader, I concur with others that Unique or W231 would be a better choice for starting out with. Heck, even bullseye if available, it is cheap and efficient.

ssyoumans
March 17, 2011, 12:07 PM
. Is it safe to just use the same load it recommends for Hornady bullets and just swap the bullets to the Winchester ones and use the same powder charge? Should I use the same OAL the Hornady manual states? Or should I go by what Winchester claims for this bullet with their powder when it concerns OAL?

I'd load .015" shorter than the max your barrel will allow. You should see what OAL your gun/bullet combo yields. Pull the barrel, place a bullet barely in a fired case, press dummy round fully into the barrel. Your bullet will be pressed back into the case. This is the length that your bullet hits the rifling. Load .015" shorter, but do not exceed 1.169", the max length for 9mm. Load a few and test before loading up 100+. This is the method I use to determine the appropriate length for pistols. There are a few exceptions, but this will keep you safe. Then start loading at the min and work your way up until you are happy with the load/functioning/velocity/accuracy.

918v
March 17, 2011, 12:13 PM
Should I use the same OAL the Hornady manual states? Or should I go by what Winchester claims for this bullet with their powder when it concerns OAL?

With Power Pistol, you'll be OK starting with 6 grains at any OAL.

slowr1der
March 17, 2011, 12:34 PM
Well, the Hornady manual listing for Power Pistol with their 124 grain FMJ bullet is listing 4.3 grains minimum charge and 5.7 as the max charge. Would it be safe to start with around 5 grains with these Winchesters? I'm just hesitant when I don't have a manual to go by.

918v
March 17, 2011, 01:06 PM
That's because Hornady has both TC profiles at 1.050" OAL and RN profiles at 1.150" OAL, so they have to defer to the shortest OAL and limit the powder charge.

slowr1der
March 18, 2011, 01:03 AM
Thanks guys. I ended up loading a few up with 5.4 grains of Power Pistol Powder and the OAL 1.155 and I crimped it by using the Lee Crimp Die and turning it 3/4 of a turn in after it touched the shell mouth. It says to do 1/2 turn for a light crimp and 1 full turn for a heavy crimp. I figure 3/4 turn should give me a medium crimp. Should this be enough?

ArchAngelCD
March 18, 2011, 05:21 AM
That crimp sounds good but you will have to try it to find out. You can also check if the round is made correctly by removing the barrel from your pistol and dropping the loaded round into the barrel to check it.

As for powders, I wish you would have come back to us and asked before you bought Power Pistol. Don't get me wrong, it's a good powder but like I said way back in the start of this thread, it's very flashy and it will produce "hot" ammo. It wouldn't be my choice for loading practice ammo by any means.

Don't forget the range report.

slowr1der
March 18, 2011, 04:44 PM
As for powders, I wish you would have come back to us and asked before you bought Power Pistol. Don't get me wrong, it's a good powder but like I said way back in the start of this thread, it's very flashy and it will produce "hot" ammo. It wouldn't be my choice for loading practice ammo by any means.I kind of wish I would have too. Honestly. That being said, I was at a shop about an hour away and he didn't have any of the others I was looking for, but had Power Pistol and said he recommended it and that's what he used, so I took his advice and bought a pound of it. I guess that's what I get for not coming back here and asking. Next time, I most likely will.

That being said, I got to shoot it today. I only loaded up 20 rounds to try out. It shot great. It didn't jam during those 20 rounds, and the majority of them hit where I wanted. I'm not the greatest pistol shot, so a 3" group at 7-10 yards is about all I can get with any ammo standing shooting free hand. So I was happy with them. It shot as well as the WWB shoots for me.

I shot 1 round of Speer Gold Dot +P and the recoil from it seemed more than the reloads so I'm assuming they aren't as hot as the +P loads which is what I was shooting for.

I checked the primers and they looked pretty normal, so I'm assuming this load is fine. Are there any other signs I should look for, or should I assume this is a safe load?

Seedtick
March 19, 2011, 12:38 AM
I think you done pretty good myself. Power Pistol is my favorite 9mm powder but HP38 is a close second.
That pound will make you a bunch of rounds.

Seedtick

:)

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