Cleaning gurus- last question!


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Motega
March 12, 2011, 01:19 PM
I KNOW I am over-thinking this but please bear with me. I want to once and for all get a good cleaning rod and bore guide(s) and I am overwhelmed by the many choices. I want as FEW implements as possible because like many of you I have a boxful of 3 piece rods, jags, adapters, etc. etc. ETC. and I want to simplify everything to just 1 rod if possible.
Are there any multi-piece rods as good as a dewey or "top of the line" 1 piece? I 1 piece rod is kind of a PITA to bring to hunting camp or carry to the range or whatever.

Also, regarding bore guides there are prices all over the place - I want to start using them but it seems like I will need at least 4 of them- pistol, .22, centerfire, and 12 gauge shotgun at LEAST.

Prices are also all over... is there anyone that has done the research lately as to who has the best price, if there is a comprehensive kit, if there are multi-piece rods that are just as good as top quality 1-piece, and are there any full "Do it all" kits with guides and rods and preferably that don't need adapters even when going from a .22 handgun to a 12 gauge?

I just want to order something and get it over with I hate doing all the legwork for stuff like this!

Again, I know that many of you don't use bore guides and take cleaning very casually, that's fine but not the advice I'm looking for... I am not saying I am going to clean every 30 rounds but when it comes time to clean I want to do it right.

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Art Eatman
March 12, 2011, 02:07 PM
I regard a cone-shaped bore-guide as a must-have. I use a one-piece .22 caliber steel rod for everything, and have for many decades.

For occasional use, the portability of an el cheapo break-down aluminum cleaning rod makes it a rational-use item. Again, .22 caliber with bore-guide. The main thing is to keep it wiped off. But, no matter what the item, Clean Is Good. :)

I won't say that I've used every kind of gun-cleaning mouse milk known to mankind, these last 60 years, but I've used bunches thereof.

What works quite adequately for small amounts of shooting at any one session--say, 20 to 30 rounds of jacketed centerfire--is to squirt some WD 40 on a patch and run it through the bore a few times until it comes out fairly clean. I follow that with whatever sort of gun oil is handy. They all work to keep rust away.

Every now and then, mostly on general principles, I'll do a more serious workover with a copper-removing bore cleaner. I've found that it's rarely needed. It's a group-size deal: No change, no need.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
March 12, 2011, 02:31 PM
I once had a really nice brass rod with cone-shaped piece to prevent touching the muzzle grooves.

Since then, things have come and things have gone and I now have several aluminum cheapo three-piece rods and a small diameter brass three-piece rod. I am not as good about cleaning as I was in years past. Nearly every day I say to myself "I should thoroughly clean a gun today" however that always seems to get put down low on the list of priorities, so again, I still have a number of guns, most of which had been fired a number of times and either hurredly-cleaned or not cleaned. I am certainly not using any corrosive anything for ammo, so that is not a concern. I occasionally pull a gun down and look it over for rust, and there is none. I usually do oil them and wipe them good with a real oily rag.

On 98% of my rod-cleaning, I must go through the muzzle. I have the gun on one of those red trays that serves to hold cleaning parts and rubberized notches into which to lay the gun. .22 is the smallest caliber I own and I own several of them in rifle and pistol. I am extremely careful to not touch the rifling when cleaning and am equally as careful to keep the rod clean during each pass so any dirt on the rod won't grind down into the barrel metal. I typically pass the rod from muzzle to chamber with a slotted jag, insert the correct size patch with Hoppes 9 and carefully pull the rod and patch through the muzzle from chamber to muzzle with one careful and guided motion, not touching the rifling with the rod. I wipe the rod, insert back into gun and do the same thing over and over until the patches are coming as clean as they will come. Then I pull dry patches through until they are like new, white, then I pull a patch or two through with gun oil that I have applied once the slotted jag is returned to the breech.

On occasion, if the gun seems really nasty, I will pull bronze brushes through in the same manner, soaked in Hoppes 9.

When pulling, I twist the rod the way it wants to twist to stay in the rifling. I am very careful about letting the rod rotate on its way out! I have found that that is easier to accomplish with the "pull-method" of cleaning over the "push-method."

On my three-piece brass brush, the quality seemed good, however I could feel where the two joints were where there was a bit of a ridge. I carefully sanded the rod with 600 (or finer) emery and oil to make the rod smooth at each screw-joint.

BrocLuno
March 12, 2011, 03:08 PM
What Art said is good. I use a Dewey one piece fiberglass/carbon fiber rod and mostly round jags and push. I also use oversized brushes on old Mil-surps that have to be cleaned for the first time real well. Amazing how really pushing a tight fitting brush with KG Bore cleaner will get a lot of old dark crap out of bores that shot corrosive ammo :) Point is, you only have to get as aggressive as needed to get the job done. Any more-so, and you are wearing away your barrel. That's why I agree with Art - only clean as much as you need.

FC
March 12, 2011, 03:09 PM
@Art, I'm curious: why the preference for a steel rod?

@Friendly, why are you cleaning from the muzzle end?

CYANIDEGENOCIDE
March 12, 2011, 03:38 PM
foaming bore cleaner, wait 30 mins, bore snake, wd-40. Don't make it hard. This way there is no chance of screwing up a crown, contacting rifling with anything that shouldn't, and you can always clean from the breech.

dfariswheel
March 12, 2011, 08:15 PM
why the preference for a steel rod?

Because a hard stainless steel rod won't allow grit to embed into it and scratch the bore or muzzle.

Aluminum and brass rods are soft and will allow grit to embed.
This is why most people who really care about their barrels use either stainless steel or carbon fiber rods, and use only one-piece.
No matter how well made a jointed rod is, the sections never screw together perfectly and there's always a "step" where they join.
That mis-matched step will really damage a muzzle fast.

Motega
March 12, 2011, 09:45 PM
That's food for thought. I will try my best to avoid making a joke about a harder rod being better, but in any case it's a great point. Although I'm wondering what could get stuck in an aluminum rod that would be hard enough the scratch a barrel... it would have to be something already in the barrel to begin with, unless you are thinking about dropping it in the dirt or something.

I don't like the idea of a 1 piece but apparently that's the way to go. It seems like there are at least 4 different sizes, what's the deal with that? Isn't there a 1 size fits all and you just screw different size brushes on the end? Also, no common brushes seem to fit on the one Dewey rod I have... so I assume you would have to buy special and presumably overpriced proprietary threaded brushes for Dewey rods? Are all the high end manufacturers playing this game?

FC
March 12, 2011, 10:24 PM
[COLOR="Blue"]
No matter how well made a jointed rod is, the sections never screw together perfectly and there's always a "step" where they join.
That mis-matched step will really damage a muzzle fast.

How would one damage the crown like that? Or is this assuming that people are cleaning from the muzzle (WRONG) end?

ZeSpectre
March 12, 2011, 10:31 PM
is this assuming that people are cleaning from the muzzle (WRONG) end?
I own several guns that can only be cleaned via the muzzle.

Remington 552 Speedmaster
Remington 7600
Rossi 92 Lever (okay it "can" be cleaned from the chamber...but you have to disassemble the gun which is worse than cleaning from the muzzle)

You better believe I have some guides.
-http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=965198
-http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=610976

jcwit
March 12, 2011, 10:32 PM
Want the best in cleaning rods, here you go.

http://www.ivyrods.com/

FC
March 12, 2011, 10:40 PM
I own several guns that can only be cleaned via the muzzle.

Remington 552 Speedmaster
Remington 7600
Rossi 92 Lever (okay it "can" be cleaned from the chamber...but you have to disassemble the gun which is worse than cleaning from the muzzle)

You better believe I have some guides.
-http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=965198
-http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=610976

You have a point there I suppose, personally I would try and stick with a boresnake only for those rifles but I do see your point.

Maverick223
March 12, 2011, 11:07 PM
Unless you have a .50cal.+ (muzzleloader or BMG) or sub-.22cal. I don't see any reason to get anything other than a standard .22cal. rod. As far as the type of rod, I believe a 1-pc. rod is necessary for standard cleaning. However, I think you can do a great deal worse than the simple, cheap 1-pc. .22cal coated steel rod from WW. That said, you can get ones that are better if you want. Personally I favor the Tipton CF rods. I use a .22cal. one for most everything (from .224 to .458) and it works well for most of what I clean (though I use others for .17cal. and scattergun).

For field cleaning I find that a Bore-Snake is sufficient and very easy to tote.

I use a Tipton bore guide and it works well too. While I don't believe they are necessary for the average rifle, I believe it foolhardy not to use one on an accurate hunting rifle or precision target rifle. A rod-stop is another simple, inexpensive accessory that I find useful (just set it to poke out the patches without allowing the jag to completely exit the muzzle); after all, the crown is the most important part of the rifle.

:)

carbine85
March 12, 2011, 11:16 PM
How would one damage the crown like that? Or is this assuming that people are cleaning from the muzzle (WRONG) end?
Some guns have to be cleaned from the muzzle end.

Maverick223
March 12, 2011, 11:19 PM
Some guns have to be cleaned from the muzzle end.No really. I use an Otis pull-through kit for those rifles (like the M1 Carbine and Ruger 10/22)...it too works well, and isn't much more difficult than cleaning standard rifles from the breach.

:)

ZeSpectre
March 13, 2011, 12:31 AM
No really. I use an Otis pull-through kit for those rifles (like the M1 Carbine and Ruger 10/22)...it too works well, and isn't much more difficult than cleaning standard rifles from the breach.

You know, I almost bought one of those a while back...maybe I need to look at it again. Is it a pain to keep attaching and removing the brush for each stroke?

Maverick223
March 13, 2011, 01:29 AM
You know, I almost bought one of those a while back...maybe I need to look at it again. Is it a pain to keep attaching and removing the brush for each stroke?I definitely would. To be honest I thought it was a bit gimmicky at first too, and probably wouldn't have sprung for one if not on clearance at Dick's (seems like it was $15.00 for the whole kit including .22cal rifle "rod", .17cal rifle "rod", .22cal pistol "rod", and various attachments and accessories). It isn't that bad, because you don't even have to unscrew it, the handle is simply a standard thread attachment with a hole in it to insert a little rod (which is tapered so that it stays in place). You can just push the rod out, feed the whole kit through, pop the little rod back in and pull. IIRC the .17cal "rod" isn't as easy, requiring you to unscrew each time, but honestly I have only used that one a couple of times (ended up selling the .17HM2 kit for the 10/22, so I currently have no need for it). It's handy for centerfire rifles, but invaluable for breach-cleaning rimfire rifles like a Marlin M-60 or Ruger 10/22...I am convinced that there is simply no better way to clean those!

:)

Motega
March 13, 2011, 01:21 PM
What makes the ivyrods and better than anything else? I don't see any claims or really any info at all on their web page about any unique features.

jcwit
March 13, 2011, 02:24 PM
http://benchrest.com/forum.php

Go here and do a search. They are highly polished and hardned.

SwampWolf
March 13, 2011, 04:48 PM
Some guns have to be cleaned from the muzzle end.

And those that do can be cleaned without fear of damaging the barrel if you use care to avoid having the rod touch the edge of the crown as you stroke the rod. A guide is handy but not essential if you employ common-sense care.
I've been very happy using the Pro-Shot Products brand, one-piece, s/s cleaning rods for all of my rifles. I have more than one rod because I try to use a rod with a diameter close to the bore caliber to minimize any flexing.
Good quality jointed rods are ok, used judiciously, for those times when space is at a premium for circumstances like pack-in hunting trips

Motega
March 13, 2011, 04:52 PM
That answers my question regarding why the different diameter rods! Common sense, thank you.

Maverick223
March 13, 2011, 05:49 PM
IMO a good .22cal. rod (one made of steel, SS, or CF/Graphite) you will be fine for any barrel greater than that diameter, OTOH Al. and brass rods aren't that strong and do flex a good bit. .17cal. rods are a different story, i'd keep their use to the sub-.22cal. bores.

:)

Motega
March 13, 2011, 06:42 PM
I am not entirely sold on the idea that for most shooters a harder cleaning rod is better- while you avoid the possibility of foreign matter getting imbedded in the rod itself, isn't there a greater risk of damaging the crown or rifling using a rod that is made of harder material than the barrel? I don't clean outdoors so I am wondering how anything could get in a rod in the first place.

SwampWolf
March 13, 2011, 07:07 PM
You make a good point, Motega. Though I long ago opted for one piece, s/s rods, I'm not entirely sold on their supposed merits either. If you keep a softer metal rod clean and take care not to rub the crown of the barrel with the rod, no adverse outcome will be experienced. On the other hand, injudicious use (rubbing the edge of the crown) with a harder metal (steel) will cause more damage than, say, a clean brass rod, would. The trick is to avoid all contact with the barrel crown (cleaning from the breech whenever possible) with a cleaning rod, irrespective of the material it's made with and keeping the rod clean of debris.
Really, the main reason I've decided on one piece, s/s rods is to minimize flex.

lightman
March 13, 2011, 08:11 PM
I use the one piece Dewey rods,and can recommend them.You'll never see a competitive shooter using an aluminum or brass jointed rod.Since no one has addressed your issue with transporting a one piece rod to the range,I'll make a few suggestions.Sinclair sells a rod case that fits Dewey rods.I have made several from pvc pipe and fitting end caps to them.They will also ride very nicely in a hard gun case.Hope this helps, Lightman

Motega
March 13, 2011, 09:58 PM
I like the Tipton carbon rods, I think I'm getting one of them...
Would it be correct that a bore guide is used for bolt actions and a muzzle guide for anything you clean from the muzzle? In other words, if I want to clean everything from the muzzle I should probably skip the bore guide and just get muzzle guides? How does a muzzle GUARD compare to the muzzle GUIDE? The guard looks like you jam it into the barrel... is that right? Seems like a really bad idea... I could just imagine jamming that thing in while cleaning, getting pulled away from the cleaning for some emergency and someone picking up the rifle for a little plinking... unlikely I know but anything that gets jammed down the barrel scares me.

Again- if I want to clean everything from the barrel, skip the bore guide and go for a muzzle guide?

TexasRifleman
March 13, 2011, 10:03 PM
What kind of rifles are you guys shooting that their accuracy is damaged by simply cleaning?

I don't own any guns that accurate I guess. I use a Dewey rod for everything and clean from the receiver end. They all shoot the same as when they were new.

Only exception is my BAR hunting rifle and I use the Dewey on that too, no bore guides etc. Guess I'm just lucky, I never really put that much thought into it.

Maverick223
March 13, 2011, 10:20 PM
Motega I think you'll like that Tipton rod. I have never used a muzzle guide because of the Otis cable cleaning kit I use for cleaning rifles with no provision for standard breach-cleaning. I imagine that they are a bit more clumsy to use than a bore guide that replaces the bolt.

:)

6.5swede
March 13, 2011, 11:55 PM
If you choose a rod over the otis system, I really like the Bore Tech bore stix rod. It has the best ball bearing handle that I've handled, a rigid steel core that is coated with a tough proprietary coating that resists scratches, chemicals and particle embedding. You'll need a good bore guide, I prefer Possum Hollow guides. Bore Tech also makes proof positive jags that eliminate the annoying false indication of copper fouling in your barrel caused by brass jags but I still prefer my Dewey-Parker-Hale style jags which really grip a patch wrapped around the entire length of the jag.

Welding Rod
March 14, 2011, 12:05 AM
Tiptons are now CHICOM. I would try to keep those dollars in America. Dewey makes some darn nice rods.

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