Carl Gustafs Stades Gevarsfaktori (swedish mauser help)


PDA






Birdmang
March 12, 2011, 09:53 PM
My friend got a swedish mauser, its drilled for a scope mount and the bolt is turned down. I don't know if any were made this way but it looks like it was done like this originally, it looks real nice.

I think its a 6.5x55.

It has a spot for a bayonet.

Its a carbine, and its a m94 I believe.


Is there anything I should look for on this rifle that would make it stand out from others?

What should i know about this cool mauser?"

If you enjoyed reading about "Carl Gustafs Stades Gevarsfaktori (swedish mauser help)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ldhulk
March 12, 2011, 10:12 PM
They came with a turned down bolt handle, but it won't clear a low mounted scope, nor will the original safety. A reciever (peep) sight works well, or maybe a high scope mount. That 17 inch barrel makes it look like a flame thrower in low light.

ridgerunner1965
March 12, 2011, 10:46 PM
yea put a scope on it and enjoy!there are several aftermarket safeties that will make it easier to use.i have bold trigger on mine with a side safety.yu can not find a rifle that will shoot like a good swede mauser.as a bonus the 6.5x55 is prob the best deer cartridge there ever was.

Float Pilot
March 13, 2011, 01:26 AM
What year?
Do the number match?

The m/94carbines with the bayonet attaching hardware were an upgrade modification done on most of them starting in 1914. Thus the m/94s with a bayonet mount are usually referred to as m/94-14.

There was one other very rare variant with a side mount for the bayonet. Those are worth a small fortune.

How bad are the scope mount holes...?? Are they on top or on the side?
Could they be blank filled???

m/94s are worth quite a bit of money. There is a special lower level of hell for whoever bubba-ed the poor thing...

This photo shows a m/94-14 along with a m/38 and m/96.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=138208&d=1299993795

Birdmang
March 13, 2011, 01:35 AM
The scope holes are on top and small. The leather is still on the gun near the butt stock and so is the brass quarter sized thing with numbers on it.

The previous owner lacquered it heavily. Nothing is cut or missing on it either. We took it down completely and removed all the lacquer from the steel. We sanded the stock down to bare wood. Now to refinish and put back together.

My friend payed $250 for it from an old man. The old man said he never scoped it or drilled it so idk what to make of the holes.

The owner of the gun never sells anything, so he wanted to refinish it and I support that, its not bubba'd and it will kill deer and hogs this year.

Thanks for the info guys

Float Pilot
March 13, 2011, 10:25 PM
What does the stock disc have written on it?

Birdmang
March 13, 2011, 10:43 PM
EDIT:

i.3

No.1111

Vaarok
March 14, 2011, 12:00 AM
The holes could be for a reciever sight. Regardless, M94 carbines are worth a lot of money. Don't modify it, provide us photographs so that we can ascertain condition, and stand by. Worst case you've got a slightly damaged awesome rifle or maybe a quick tripling of your money.

Birdmang
March 14, 2011, 12:28 AM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/bassbikerdan/0313112216.jpg

Float Pilot
March 14, 2011, 12:54 AM
Third Infantry, rifle number 1111.
That disc is unusual since it does not have a company stamped on it... maybe they were reserved non-company assigned.
The disc sure looks scratchy like somebody sanded it....
I hope you guys did not remove much wood during your stock sanding. A nice (non-bubba) m/94 stock is worth more than you paid for the whole rifle.

Birdmang
March 14, 2011, 01:01 AM
There was about 2mm of lacquer on it so we just got that off and a little bit of wood on the non critical parts for fitting. It will be done tomorrow and Ill post more pictures.

THanks for all the information. Is it normal that there are crowns all over this rifle?

Also what does the "1.5" mean on the side of the front sight?

Float Pilot
March 14, 2011, 01:30 AM
The Crowns are Swedish acceptance marks. They are a monarchy....
There are three different types of crown stamps found on Swedish Mausers.

The crown stamped used by those rifles made in Germany at the Mauser factory on the Neckar river. They have a baggy looking bottom on the crown.

The Crown stamp used by the Carl Gustaf Rifle (government) factory in Sweden, with a tighter looking bottom
and
the tilted crown used by the Husqvarna factory in Sweden.

The 1.5 was the sight height number. They came in kit boxes of different heights so the rifle could be zeroed.

By the way, there are better ways to remove lacquer from a stock than sanding... but that ship has sailed...

Birdmang
March 14, 2011, 01:34 AM
Yeah we jumped the gun. I guessed it was a 6.5x55 and then I guessed it was a run of the mill swiss mauser. I'm a little bummed but my friend is a shooter and not a collector. If we ever take it hunting in the field Ill try to convince him to put some bubba stock on it and keep the real one at home.

Float Pilot
March 14, 2011, 04:20 PM
but my friend is a shooter and not a collector
It is possible to do both with a Swedish Mauser. I have hunted with 3 or 4 of mine that are in full military condition and I have won military rifle matches with them as well. On more than one occasion using different rifles so as not to tick off the competition.
http://www.nrablog.com/post/2010/05/30/Sixth-Annual-Mauser-Match-in-Homer-Alaska.aspx

The Helmet is the trophy.

shootr
March 14, 2011, 04:49 PM
Nice job FP!!

Those Swede and Swiss rifles sure will shoot.

Birdmang
March 16, 2011, 08:10 PM
Pictures added:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/bassbikerdan/Bensboar1008.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/bassbikerdan/Bensboar1007.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s135/bassbikerdan/Bensboar1006.jpg

Caddisflied
March 17, 2011, 07:57 AM
Looks like a nice rifle Birdmang.
Since it's already drilled out, I'd try putting a scope on it.
These old 6.5's are amazingly accurate and it's a great caliber for hunting.
I've taken several nice whitetail bucks with my Swedish Mauser.

I see that you're put the rifle back together.
I've got my 1920 CG mod96 apart for cleaning and I notice it has a 74 and G stamped
underneath the receiver. It also has an F stamped under the barrel near the receiver.
I'm hoping someone will know what these markings mean?

Nice job Float Pilot. Great shooting!

Float Pilot
March 17, 2011, 03:59 PM
Caddisflied:

Are you sure it is an F and not a poorly stamped B on the bottom of your m/96 barrel.?
Is there a crown under or near the letter?

What marks are on the wrist of the stock? Between the rear sling attach mount and the trigger guard.
There should be some arsenal rebuild marks (stamp marks in the wood) that look like little crowns.

All the other numbers and letters on the bottom side of the receivers are the various inspection marks added by people as the rifle continued through production.

Here is the bottom side of an m/96 barrel showing that it was re-barreled by the Carlsborg Armory. The spelling was later changed to Karlsborg.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=138512&d=1300388334

Caddisflied
March 17, 2011, 05:42 PM
There are two crowns on the underside of the wrist,
and two more under the barrel.
The F appears to be a seperate stamp on the underside of the barrel,
but on the opposite side from the serial #.
There may also be a small F under the wrist,
it's hard to make out with my eyesight.

I've looked through the archived threads enough to know about some
of the other markings on the gun (like the HK).
I found the canted crown on the bolt (Husqvarna)
I didn't find an SA marking on the receiver but there is an S preceded by
a bracket symbol, like this [s

Another question, I read that some of these guns were rebarrelled.
If parts were changed (such as the barrel), did they restamp the new part with the original serial number? All the serial numbers match on my rifle.

One last thing. The disk on the rifle stock has a triangle stamped over both the 1 and the 2. Is that from two different inspections, or did
the condition of this gun fall between the two grade levels?

Thanks for your input, Pilot.
Your knowledge is greatly appreciated!

Float Pilot
March 18, 2011, 12:09 AM
The HK before the serial number means that your M/96 was built when Lieutenant Helge Gustaf Ludvig Kolthoff (born 8-7-1878) was the chief inspector at the CG (Gov't Rifle Factory) Between April 1912 and Feb 1923.

The bolt is a Husqvarna made replacement part. They are very common and it would be serial numbered to the rifle. Just as replacement barrels would be as well. They were rebuilding some of these rifles well into the 1970s. Some of the later rebuilds at Army depots show odd barrel vice marks.

The marks above the 1 and the 2 came from two different inspections. But a 2 grade barrel fro the Swedes was usually better than a new barrel for most other countries.
They were a bit excessive-compulsive about their rifles.

The ..[S.. might be a poorly done Finn acceptance mark from the Winter war and Continuation War time period. (WWII) I would have to see it.

Here is a late re-barreled m/96 with the odd barrel vice marks.

Caddisflied
March 18, 2011, 01:22 AM
Thanks for the info!
I don't see any barrel vice marks on my rifle.
And the [s could very well be a poorly stamped SA.
There seems to be a little hint of some markings beside the S?
I bought this rifle in the early 90's and when I saw how well it shot,
I decided to hold onto it.
(If this is a grade #2, I can just imagine how the better grades must shoot).
It was my intention to work up some handloads for it someday.
Haha, it's been almost 20 years, I better get started. Any suggestions?

Again, many thanks

snake284
March 18, 2011, 06:11 AM
One thing to remember, as good of rifles as they were, that action is not as strong as a model 98. You can't load it up near as hot. You should stay within SAAMI specs as far as pressure loads go. It will slowly stretch and it can cause a case head separation over time as the head space gets way out of spec. However, in 6.5x55 it's already a good killer as is, within reasonable ranges out to possibly 400 yards if you do your part as a shooter. Remember good bullet placement makes up for a lot of sin.

Caddisflied
March 18, 2011, 10:44 AM
Thanks for the advice snake284.
I haven't done much reloading for a few years and I appreciate the reminder regarding chamber pressure in these older rifles.

Gordon
March 18, 2011, 03:21 PM
Here is a load that shoots to the sights of my 94 and is pretty mild yet has killed deer WELL!
This is my load for my 6.5x55Swedish Mauser M94 carbine, Small rifle primers from CCI 200, Hornady Round160 grains, 0.251 Ball. coef. IMR 4064 /31.5 grains @ 2100fps, 3.018" AOL,5.37SD Shoots nice and deadly accurate, Start your loads with -10% less powder charge and go .5 grains increments until you are happy with your load.

Caddisflied
March 18, 2011, 07:13 PM
Looks like I need to restock my loading bench.
I've got some IMR4350, IMR4320, and some H4831,
but no IMR4064.
Do you have any experience with the Rel 22 powder?
I haven't used it. But I've seen it recommended several times for various calibers.

It might be a few weeks before I do any loading for this Mauser.
I'm playing with an Anschutz 1411 Match 54 that I recently purchased.

Thanks for the load recommendation Gordon!

jdh
March 18, 2011, 10:00 PM
That 94 is not bubba-ed.

This is a bubba-ed 94
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/jhooten/DSCN0201.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/jhooten/DSCN0203.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/jhooten/DSCN0202.jpg

No I didn't do it. I bought it in a sorry state of affairs and tried to at least salvage something from the mess.

Owen Sparks
March 18, 2011, 10:42 PM
Remove the metal butt-plate with a screw driver. Often there is a slip of paper with the name, date and serial number of the man it was originally issued to.

Gordon
March 18, 2011, 11:10 PM
Don't buy new powders, H4831 (and prolly the others) also works well with the 160 grain bullet that the 94 carbines seem to like.
160 gr Hornady RN, Lapua cases, Fed GM210M primers and either 43.5 grs H4831 for average 2300 fps(in a 29" rifle, I never checked it in the carbine like I did the other load). The H4831 load is especially consistent and the pressure seems very mild , like the other I gave you. Seat the bullet to the canalure on the Hornady, it was designed for an 1894 or 1896 6.5x55 BTW.

stanmo
March 18, 2011, 11:31 PM
The scope drilling looks like Bubba work.

Float Pilot
March 19, 2011, 12:59 AM
Here are some experiments with my rifles. the rest are written down in my log book. These were in my rifle and may not be safe in other rifles.


Sierra 120 grain Match King, 45.3 grains of H-100V,
Lapua Brass and a CCI BR2 primer. , loaded to a short 3.085 inch COL.
From my 1943 Husqvarna m/38 , this load gave an average of 2,770 fps and a 0.50 inch group with one flyer out to 0.75 inch.

6.5x55mm
120gr Sierra HPBT
43.0gr H-4350
CCI-200
WW Brass
3.00 col, no crimp
2,787 fps m/96
2,649 fps m/38
2,380 fps m/94

0.39 in grp m/96
1.67 in grp m/38
1.66 in grp m/94
no pressure signs
Clean brass


6.5x55mm
120gr NOSLER Bal-Tip
47.0gr RL-22
CCI-200
WW Brass
3.00 col, no crimp
2,724 fps m/96
2,619 fps m/38

0.28 in grp m/96
3.69 in grp m/38
no pressure signs
Clean brass
Aug 30, 2009. temp 65’F

6.5x55mm
140gr Sierra HPBT
46.3gr RL-22
CCI-200
WW Brass
3.055 col, no crimp
2,729 fps m/96
2,622 fps m/38
2,342 fps m/94
0.68 in grp m/96
1.19 in grp m/38
3.20 in grp m/94
no pressure signs
Clean brass
Aug 30, 2009. temp 65’F


6.5x55mm
120gr Sierra HPBT
47.0gr H-414
CCI-200
WW Brass
2.98 col, no crimp
2,815 fps m/96
2,701 fps m/38

2.00 in grp m/96
3.70 in grp m/38
no pressure signs
VERY DIRTY brass
Aug 30, 2009.
temp 65’F


6.5x55mm 120gr Sierra HPBT 47.0gr RL-19 CCI-200 WW Brass 3.00 col, no crimp
2,813 fps m/96 2,693 fps m/38 2,389 fps m/94 0.90 in grp m/96 1.70 in grp m/38
no pressure signs very Clean brass temp 65 degrees F 08/30/2009
Shot from dirty bore.




6.5x55mm
140gr Sierra HPBT
46.3gr H-1000
Fed 210 match
Lapua Brass
3.100 col, no crimp
2,510 fps m/96
0.90 in grp m/96
no pressure signs
very Clean brass
Sept 6, 2009. temp 55’F


6.5x55mm
140gr Sierra HPBT
46.3gr H-4831
Fed 210 match
Lapua Brass
3.100 col, no crimp
2,683 fps m/96
2,545 fps m/38
1.63 in grp m/96
1.12 in group m/38
slight pressure signs
very Clean brass
Sept 6, 2009. temp 55’F


6.5x55mm
140gr Sierra HPBT
44.0gr H-4831
Fed 210 match
Lapua Brass
3.100 col, no crimp
2,532 fps m/96
0.90 in grp m/96
no pressure signs
very Clean brass
Sept 6, 2009. temp 55’F


6.5x55mm
140gr Sierra HPBT
45.0 gr H-4831
Fed 210 match
Lapua Brass
3.100 col, no crimp
2,635 fps m/96
0.83 in grp m/96
no pressure signs very good load for m/96
very Clean brass
Sept 6, 2009. temp 55’F

6.5x55mm Swede
120gr SMK
40.0gr RL-17
Lapua, WW Standard primer
3.050 COL no Crimp
CG-63 2,670fps and 1.5 inch grp
M/96 2,650fps and 1.2 inch grp
Dirty case necks, temp neg 15C

6.5x55mm Swede
120gr SMK
46.0gr H-4831
Lapua brass, CCI-200
3.070 COL no Crimp
CG-63 2,770fps and 1.2 inch grp
M/96 2,664fps and 1.75 inch grp
Clean cases, temp neg 15 C



6.5x55mm Swede
142gr SMK
44.5gr H-4831
Lapua, CCI-200
3.090 COL no Crimp
CG-63.. Not tested due to yaw
M/96.. 2,570fps and 1.5 inch grp
Clean cases, temp neg 15C



6.5x55mm Swede
140gr Sierra game king BT
46.5gr H-1000
Lapua, WW Standard primer
3.100 COL, no Crimp
CG-63 2,612fps and 1.75 inch grp
M/96 2,500 fps and 1.0 inch grp
Medium dirty necks, Temp Neg 15C

Caddisflied
March 19, 2011, 08:10 AM
Very helpful information!
I've got some 120gr Sierra HPBT MatchKing, and some 120gr Nosler Bal. Tips on the shelf (6.5mm),
but my manuals don't have any 120gr data for the H4831 that I was hoping to try for this 29" m/96.
I think that's where I left off with this rifle, some years ago.

My Nosler manual shows a max load of 47gr of H4831 for 140's.
According to your data, Pilot, it looks like good accuaracy is possible
without maxing out that load.

Didn't find much on the heavier 160's in the books I have, Gordon.
Seems like I read somewhere that these rifles like a relatively long OAL.
I can see where the 160gr RN might have possibilities.

I think for now, I'll see if I can get my hands on some 140gr boattails.
And start with 43 grains of the H4831.

Very impressive groups there Float Pilot!
If I ever come close to a .29 group with any rifle, I'll frame it and hang it in my living room..

Thanks very much for passing on the info guys,
I'm saving it



Note: The Sierra MatchKing bullets should not be used for deer hunting! They're not designed for it.
I mention this because that information wasn't provided in any of my manuals
when I was loading for my 264 Mag years ago.

Float Pilot
March 19, 2011, 04:59 PM
Speaking of the original poster's (Birdmang) m/94 Carbine,,, they have a rifling twist if one turn in 200mm, Or one turn in 7.87 inches.

They and the m/96 rifles, which have the same twist rate, were originally designed to fire a 156 grain (10.1 gram) round nose bullet.

The original overall cartridge length was 80mm or 3.15 inches.

The m/94 carbines gave a muzzle velocity (as best could be measured or guess-ta-mated,,,back in 1894,) of 2,100 fps and the longer 29 inch rifle barrel of the m/96s supposedly gave 2,329 fps. They used a charge of 37grains of some sort of powder which I can not find listed.

The Norwegians also used this ammo or a near equivalent in their 6.5x55mm Krag Rifles and carbines.

In 1925 the Norwegians developed a 9 gram (139 grain) spitzer bullet for their 6.5s.. the Swedes waited until 1941 to introduce this type of bullet into their military service.

The Swede m/41 ammunition used a 139 grain spitzer boat-tail bullet and had a overall cartridge length or 78mm. (3.07 inches col)
They used 46.3 grains of a powder called NC-1220. BUT, I have dissected other ammo made at later dates and they have a different powder and load.

The m/41 ammo gave 2,362 fps from a m/94 carbine.
2,592 fps from a m/96 rifle
and 2,510 fps from a m/38 rifle (23.5 inch barrel)

The Sights on the Swedes are all pretty much set for a 300 meter minimum zero. The range data plated or yellow data stickers which are often seen on them was a way to adjust for the difference between the two types of ammo a soldier might run into.
Any target closer than 300 meters and you were supposed to aim at their belt buckle so you would get an upper chest strike. Higher front sight blades can be used to zero at 100 meters. but it is still a good idea to use a 6 o'clock hold.

Caddisflied
March 21, 2011, 07:49 AM
I noticed that Sierra used one of these Swedish Military Carbines
as their Test Firearm for testing their loads in the reloading manual I have.

Hope it's okay to borrow your thread here for one more question Birdmang.
I probably should have started a seperate thread? I'm new here.

Regarding my 1920 Carl Gustavs model 96.
It has a threaded muzzle.
I read somewhere that this indicates a later rebarreling of the rifle.
Does anyone have any information on this?
And if so, when and where were these rebarrelled?

Thanks

vaupet
March 21, 2011, 10:03 AM
in the early years, weden used blancs with wooden bullets. On top of the barrel was a device that shredded the bullet. This was told to me.
The picture shows my 1909 Carl Gustav with the device.

greetz

Peter

Float Pilot
March 21, 2011, 01:29 PM
Vaupet is correct, the Swedes, along with many other European countries used wooden bullets in their blanks. This let them cycle through various actions without hanging up. Plus I think they used old recycled fired brass.

The older training manuals told the Swede soldiers to shoot off to one side or above the opposing force troops during exercises, but as any soldier will tell you, you cannot soldier proof anything, so they were shooting and injuring each other at closer ranges.

So in 1955, the Swedish Army introduced the Lösskjutningsanordning (blank firing adapter)

Starting in that year many of the m/96s and m/38 rifles were re-barreled with a new threaded-end barrel to accept the BFA. And as Vaupet has already told you, the BFA shreaded the wooden bullets. Thsi also increased the felt recoil and made the training a little more realistic.

The m/96s and m/38s with threaded barrels were designated m/96B and m/38B.

The Swedes issued a yellowish colored semi clear plastic or nylon thread protector for the B designated rifles.
There are also aftermarket blued steel thread protectors that look very nice and totally hide the threads.

The Swedes NEVER installed flash hiders on these rifles as you sometimes see on Bubbed rifles, or in ads on the Gun-traders...

No threaded barrels were EVER installed on sniper rifles.

It seems that towards the end of the time period that the m/96s and m/38s were being rebuilt, (1970s and early 1980s) that the spare parts only included the B type barrels. So you could easily end up with a new B type barrel that never had a blank fired through it.

Caddisflied
March 21, 2011, 06:58 PM
That's interesting!
I've heard of the bullet shredders, but I had never seen one.
They look a lot different than what I had pictured.
Thanks vaupet!

m/96B
So the threaded m/96B's have post 1955 barrels, and maybe as recent as the early 80's.
That makes sense. The finish on this barrel is pretty good.
Yet, the disk on the rifle stock would have been replaced when they changed the barrel,
and since this one has 2 inspection stamps, it must have a few years on it?
I noticed that one of the two crowns on the underside of the barrel is very slightly canted.
(The one nearer the receiver). So it might have gone through the Husqvarna factory sometime after 1955.
And you've already mentioned that it has a Husqvarna bolt, Pilot.

(The thread protector is blued steel instead of the original plastic).

I've learned more about this rifle than I would have thought possible.
Many thanks to you all!

Any addition information would be greatly appreciated,
And thanks for the use of this thread Birdmang.

Float Pilot
March 21, 2011, 10:51 PM
Check to see if the serial number stamped inside the stock barrel channel matches the rest of the rifle. Plus the upper hand-guard.

Also some rifles came into the US without disc's. Or with custom disc that were used by private owners in Sweden. (before their gun laws went nuts)
So many US owners and dealers have slapped in whatever disc they could find. Most folks can't read them anyway...

Caddisflied
March 22, 2011, 05:59 AM
The numbers on the wood match the rest of the gun.
But the disc screw looks suspicious?
It's not brass, looks like steel, and screwdriver marks are visible.

Haha, If I remember right, the fellow I bought this from many years ago,
told me the disc described trajectory calculations for a grenade launcher attachment.

I don't have a digital camera, or I'd send pictures.
The pictures I've tried taking with my cell phone aren't worth sending

Caddisflied
March 24, 2011, 04:36 PM
http://www.hodgdon.com/

If you enjoyed reading about "Carl Gustafs Stades Gevarsfaktori (swedish mauser help)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!