[Cosmoline]

I was reading recently where the conventional wisdom after WWII was that American hunters would start switching over to semi-autos. They loved the Garands, after all. And a similar switch from lever action to bolt had taken place after experience with bolt actions (on both ends) after WWI.

Of course, it never happened! The great majority of rifle buyers continue to choose bolt actions as their "serious" rifles, relegating semi autos to a smaller niche market just like lever actions.

My question is, why? Too noisy? Reputation for inaccuracy? Stiff-necked tradition? Weight concerns?

[Badger Arms]

Semi-auto's in hunting calibers are generally heavier, more expensive, and less reliable. When a bolt action will last for 100 years or more, why spend extra money on something of inferior accuracy?

[Pappy John]

Pennsylvany Game Commission won't allow it. Rifles or pistols. Shotguns are OK though. Go figger...

[Schuey2002]

Some guys/gals are just 'dyed in the wool' bolt action owners.. :)

[Jack T.]

Granted, my semi-auto rifle expereice is pretty limited, but I just haven't seen one that shoots as well as a bolt.

And I sure haven't seen one as pretty as a walnut stocked Winchester 70 :D

[Art Eatman]

For the majority of all hunting, a single-shot would probably suffice.

A bolt-action's advantages for a hunting rifle include such things as ease of maintenance and cleaning; weight; appearance, most of the time; accuracy for the relative cost...And, after all, you don't need "firepower". Another point is that scopes are more easily mounted.

Don't forget that a lot of guys didn't really want reminders of wartime. What they wanted out of the military was "Out of the military!" Sorta like some marriages...

Art

[Marshall]

Most of it was Price, Simplicity and Accuracy.

[Nightcrawler]

My experience comes from a Remington 7400/.30-06 I owned for awhile, so take it for what it's worth.

"Sporter" Semiautos, namely, the Remingtons, are, frankly, not that well designed. They break down like a shotgun, except you can't remove the barrel. They're overcomplex and difficult to disassemble (compared to a FAL, AK, or even an AR) and the Remmy had a truly bizzare manual of arms. The bolt would lock back when the last round was fired, but you couldn't remove the magazine with the bolt locked back. *shrug*

It also has a pretty light barrel, not really stiff enough to provide real long range accuracy.

And, they cost considerably more than a Wal-Mart stock bolt gun, and offer no real advantage when it comes to hunting deer (though several disadvantages that have already been described).

[bedlamite]

Some of us never switched from a lever action :neener:

[cheygriz]

I think the primary reason was tradition. Even today, many folks will buy a blued gun instead of stainbless or phosphate coated. Some will still buy wood stocks, even though in todays world, wood is one of the worst possible materials for a gun stock.

Tradition. Many shooters don't like change, even when the change is demonstrably better performing.

I like semiautos with blackened, matte stainless and synthetic stocks, and full pistol grips. I like Glocks and Sigs. Other folks like wood and bluing.

Thankfully, we have a selection of guns to please almost everyone.

[PaladinX13]

Price and weight.

[cratz2]

The Browning BAR seems like a good enough gun but I've only casually shot them. Seemed accurate enough for shooting paper. The 7400 I could live without. Those are the two main offerings.

I prefer Ruger and Winchester bolt rifles. A standard weight Ruger costs about $ The BAR costs, what? About $650? Compared to a $420 Ruger bolt gun? No thanks!

[Zak Smith]

I think the main reasons, today, are weight and availability. On the other hand, show me an decently priced HK SL7 and I'd buy it immediately.

-z

[Zundfolge]

I was reading recently where the conventional wisdom after WWII was that American hunters would start switching over to semi-autos.
Conventional wisdom right after WWII also said by 2003 we'd be driving flying cars too :p

[gryphon]

OHio does not allow hunting with rifles, let alone a semi-auto. BEst we can do here is a rifled shotgun.

[Marshall]

I guess I should have pointed out that the Browning BAR is surprisingly accurate, I have one. As long as I do my job, that rifle will nail anything I point at. But, that really wasn't the question. :D

[Mike Irwin]

Can't hunt deer in Pennsylvania with a semi-auto.

Don't know about small game.

[Cosmoline]

I just find it interesting that in this day and age of supposedly parabolic increases in technology, most of us are still using rifles with a basic design going back over 100 years or more, firing cartridges in many cases of the same vintage. Will there ever be any substantive change?

[Nightcrawler]

Fact of the matter is, nothing has come along that can do the job current guns do better than how they do it.

A technological plateau, of sorts. Or, more likely, tech is still going up, but incrementally and over time. Firearms tech has been slowly evolving; there have been big breakthroughs here and there, must mostly, changes come slowly and over time.

[Badger Arms]

In really examining bolt actions, we must look at what we really have today. The Remington 700 is a design from the 40's or 50's that is made on modern machinery today in a much different manner than rifles were 100 years ago. A rifle like the Ruger 77 is space-age in construction techniques. There have been leaps and bounds in polymers, composites, metalurgy, heat treatment, and design. Cartridges today are more accurate and consistant than they were just 20 yeras ago.

What we are really doing for bolt actions is refining an already perfected product. Unlike computers, aircraft, electronics, cars, etc., guns are very simple mechanisms with a long and storied past. Their development was just about played out nearly 50 years ago. Products that worked, like the Browning M-2 and the Browning 1911 have stood the test of time.

What could improve on the bolt action? Cheap, simple, rugged, accurate. What advantage does the semi-auto have. Even the Military uses the bolt action to this day when they are hunting people.

Back to the initial question, we ARE using semi-autos in plinking, recreation, and self-defense. Only in hunting are civilians, like the military, clinging to the best thing going, the bolt operated repeating rifle.

[Zak Smith]

One could argue that the Blaser R93 bolt system is a significant improvement to the basic bolt action design.

Doesn't that rifle also have a searless trigger system?

-z

[redneck2]

I know two cases where guys used autoloaders and were quite unhappy

Two of our customers took BAR's to Alaska on brown bear hunts. Cold, wet, rainy. Both froze and they ended up using the guide's gun

My next door neighbor used to guide in Colorado. Told me he used a 740 in 30-06. Same thing...froze up in cold wet weather

it's kinda odd that it's hard to get a non-military autoloader rifle to work consistently, but 12 gauges are real common.

Clearances maybe???

[GD]

Unlike a semiautomatic, with my bolt action Enfield I don't have to wait for it to cycle its action. I can do it myself!:neener:

[geekay]

They are OK if you're not a reloader, the empyies can be a bit hard to find. They are handy if you require a quick second or third shot Ha ha. Most "hunting" does not involve a lot of shooting and when I hunt ferals there can be half an hour or much more between shots unless I'm shooting rabbits off a large warren, but I use 22lr for that. Here in Australia semi-autos are out since '96 anyway which doesn't effect the hunting scene much at all.

[Cosmoline]

One interesting thing I've noticed. Many hunters up here in AK during the '20's and '30's seem to have been drawn toward Remmington Auto 8's. Those and Savage '99's in high-velocity Newton cartridges can be seen in all sorts of vintage photos. Perhaps the interest in the Auto 8 was to make up for the poor performance of the cartridges. Who knows. Native subsistence hunters are still drawn to light semis such as the Mini 14. The subsistence hunters are basically hunting the same way the frontiersmen of the Pre-WWII era were. Maybe it's because there's more emphasis on quantity than quality for subsistence hunting.

One thing's for sure, we rifle shooters are a hidebound, stiff-necked group ;-)

[BIGR]

Different guns for different hunting trips. I own both semi-auto and bolt action guns. Yea I use the Browning MK II safari 30.06 most of the time on those deer hunts where the weather is nice. I do prefer a stainless bolt gun when the weather is going to be nasty. Bolt guns are almost 100 percent reliable and are going to function well in nasty weather. Truth is I have taken more game with semi-auto guns than with bolt guns, but still have more faith in that bolt gun when sitting in the pouring rain or snow. Whatever works for you. Its just like comparing a manual transmission to an automatic transmission.

[PATH]

One shot one kill. Maybe a second if you need to put the animal down. I don't want somebody taking multiple shots during hunting season. I use a REM 700 in .30-.06 for hunting. I think maybe it is also a sort of tradition. Giving an animal a sporting chance. Here in NY you can hunt Semi with 5+1. I personally don't need that much. Maybe some folks do but not me. If I miss then that is that. Firing 5 more rounds probably won't rmedy the situation. Well that's my .02 cents!

[ShaiVong]

Bolt? Semi? What are you boys talking about?! Only thing i use is my 6 phase 7Gigawatt, nutreno particle accelerator with gravidic targeting system and quantom cold-fusion cells. Oh wait.. What year is it again? Damn that prime directive!

[TheLastBoyScout]

If it weren't for game laws (PA=No Semiauto), I'd hunt with either a Garand or AR15. I had to choose between having a rifle to hunt with or a highly effective HD weapon, so I did, and went with an AR.

[PJR]

I've never actually felt the need for a semi-auto. I prefer hunting rifles that are accurate and light and that precludes most of the semis in full sized calibers.

A few years back, I was deer hunting with a friend who used a Remington semi-auto. One the drive out, he was razzing me over my Ruger single shot. His face fell as we were getting ready to hike to the tree stand when he realized he'd forgotten the magazine for his rifle. Suppressing a grin, I observed that it looked like we were both were using single shots for this trip.

Both of us got a deer. One shot, one kill. My friend still has his semi but now prefers a bolt action with a fixed magazine.

Paul

[Dave R]

There's an old saying I heard on TFL last year.

During hunting season, if you hear:
-1 shot=dead deer.
-2 shots, maybe a dead deer.
-3 shots, that one got away.

A follow-up shot should rarely be needed. If it is, a boltgun can deliver it fast enough. Shooters of single-shots will tell you theirs can, too. So no need for the extra cost, weight and complexity of semis.

Now, if you're talking urban insurrection...

[amprecon]

Most hunting rifle calibers are much more capable than one can take advantage of without the use of a scope. I had a Garand which I thought would fit the bill pefectly.....until a shot past 300 yds. presented itself.
Both actions are effective, depending on the caliber, from the muzzle out to 500yds or 1000yds, however, shots past 3 or 4 hundred yards isn't recommended unless the hunter is sure they can make a clean kill. Accurate shot placement outside of 300yds with open sighted rifles is practically impossible. I don't mean that a person with open sights couldn't hit a target at further ranges, but to pick a point on the target to hit, such as the vitals on a deer, becomes nearly impossible.
I haven't noticed a significant difference between bolts and semi's in accuracy or reliability in my experiences. It just seems that bolts are cheaper, lighter and scope easier.

[scotjute]

When hunting involves having to shoot multiple animals who are out to kill you, you'll see hunters switch to semi-autos in droves! :)

[JohnBT]

My father shot 2 Virginia whitetails with 2 fast shots at the age of 76. Standing at 110 yards FWIW. He was using a BAR .280Rem. Try that with a bolt action.

OTOH, his brother's BAR .30-06 weighs something like 8.5 pounds. Not what I'd pick for walking up and down the mountain, but I guess he's used to it.

John

[Onslaught]

I don't really like anything else EXCEPT semi autos. I don't like levers or pumps, and bolt guns are WAY down on the list.

But after a couple deer hunting trips with an M1A, I found myself looking long and hard at a bolt-action .308 :D Inexpensive, light, accurate, light, easy to maintain, light, and did I mention the weight?

I now own exactly 1 non-semi-auto rifle, that has only one purpose. It's a Savage left-handed bolt action .308 that goes hunting, and that's all it does.

[Joe Demko]

I'd say state regulations have a lot to do with it. The PA game commision is notoriously stiff-necked about which weapons you can and can't use.
Concerning action types:
For big game, may use any centerfire single shot lever action, bolt action, or pump action rifle. May use single shot pistols or revolvers subject to certain other restrictions. May use single shot, double barrel, or pump shotguns w/ slugs. Pump magazine must be plugged.
For small game, may use single shot, bolt action, lever action, or pump rimfires. May use any type of shotgn, magazine must be plugged.

PA Game commision didn't permit use of compound bosws until well into the 1970's. Didn't permit use of autoloading shotguns until the same period. Doesn't permit use of crossbows, except in one tiny restricted area. This was the first year to have a season for in-line blackpowder.

I think it is less a matter of tradition than law. You see every type of gun the law permits in use. If autos were permitted, they'd be out there too.

[Poodleshooter]

Bolt guns are often lighter than similar caliber semi-autos. Heft my Ruger M77 vs an FAL for a day of hunting and hiking and you'll find one reason. Sure, there are lighter .308 autos, but they cost $$$.
I like mine for the strength of the action. It's nice when reloading.